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Topic: KSU: Non Expert Analysis
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:02 PM
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1. We gave a coaching clinic on all the different ways it's possible to miss a layup. Did we hire Chad Gill as our new assistant coach in charge of layup drills? It seemed like the whole team used the time-tested Chad Gill layup technique that resulted in a lifetime percentage of 18.5.

2. Until the final minute of the game we had one made three-point shot for the whole afternoon. While KSU had a good defense against the outside shot, we did have some open looks that didn't go down. They seemed to be concentrating on Bean from the perimeter, which should mean that others would be open, or could be open with effort.

3. This team has no chemistry. There are times when you see a good deal of hustle out of individual players, but these come in spurts and the hustle virus never seems to infect the whole team at the same time.

4. This team seems resigned to losing. They often start the game with a little bit of swagger but when things get tough, they just collapse. The fire goes out, and they go through the motions for the rest of the game.

5. Who is our point guard? Sometimes it seems to be Stevie, sometimes R. Taylor, and it even looked a few times like it was Harley or Laster. My conclusion: we don't have point guard, except the one that can't play this year.

6. This team is about the worst OHIO team to watch ever. It might even eclipse the Wilderness Campaign team, because this team has seemly more talent but less team work.

7. I'll be at the BG game rooting for a Bobcat victory. I still hold out a small chance that the team can catch fire in the MAC tournament, but this seems less and less likely with each game I see.

8. Go OHIO!
Last Edited: 2/21/2015 5:05:34 PM by OhioCatFan
Pataskala
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:07 PM
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I'd add that there's no movement in the offense. Everybody stands around like they're waiting for something to happen.
FearLeon
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:08 PM
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Spot on.
Chad Gill reference is epic and I was one of his biggest fans.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:25 PM
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Zero big support off the bench is a problem--the disparity in talent from starters to support is significant. If the Bobcats had Kent's bench, would the outcome have been different? Three to four players of starting MAC quality isn't going get you much on a consistent basis. OHIO can play with anyone when everything clicks--as Akron and Buffalo discovered but depth is needed for regular success.

If Kent beats Miami then bet the farm that they take the MAC as past results point to Kent's success when sweeping the two southern MAC teams.
SBH
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:36 PM
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I think Billy Hahn's team were worse to watch. And Dale Bandy's last team.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/21/2015 5:40 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I think Billy Hahn's team were worse to watch. And Dale Bandy's last team.
Have to disagree on those SBH. At least Dale had Spindle Graves and Billy had Jamerson and Snoopy. Now that I'm training to be a psychologist, my first two projects are to get you to get over Billy and BobcatLove to get over Geno.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 2/21/2015 6:16 PM
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So it's looking more and more likely that we are going to top out around 10-11 wins. Well, last time that happened we went dancing the next season. So, we got that goin for us.
SBH
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Posted: 2/21/2015 6:17 PM
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That's exactly why those teams were so painful to watch. We finished last with two studs. It takes a special brand of coaching to accomplish that. It'll take electro-shock therapy to forget that, Alan. :)
Last Edited: 2/21/2015 6:27:45 PM by SBH
oldkatz
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Posted: 2/21/2015 6:25 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
I think Billy Hahn's team were worse to watch. And Dale Bandy's last team.
I agree completely.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 2/21/2015 6:31 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
That's exactly why those teams were so painful to watch. We finished last with two studs. It takes a special brand of coaching to accomplish that. It'll take electro-shock therapy to forget that, Alan. :)
Last I heard they were reopening Fallsview. Should I schedule an appointment? :)
Ohio69
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:06 PM
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I will never get over Billy Hahn. Great talent on those teams.....
Cielec321
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:14 PM
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What's frustrating for me to watch is all the mistakes we make and we have no leadership on the sidelines coaching. Tony had 3 3 point attempts tonight, after each one not a word to tony from Saul. No movement on the offense, not a word from Saul. During the game there is very little instruction from him, and when players come off the floor they sit down and there is no coaches talking to them. Maybe he does everything during timeouts, whatever his method is, it doesn't work.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:33 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
What's frustrating for me to watch is all the mistakes we make and we have no leadership on the sidelines coaching. Tony had 3 3 point attempts tonight, after each one not a word to tony from Saul. No movement on the offense, not a word from Saul. During the game there is very little instruction from him, and when players come off the floor they sit down and there is no coaches talking to them. Maybe he does everything during timeouts, whatever his method is, it doesn't work.
Why would he yell at Tony after 3 pt attempts? He is shooting 36% on 3's good for 2nd best on our team.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:48 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
What's frustrating for me to watch is all the mistakes we make and we have no leadership on the sidelines coaching. Tony had 3 3 point attempts tonight, after each one not a word to tony from Saul. No movement on the offense, not a word from Saul. During the game there is very little instruction from him, and when players come off the floor they sit down and there is no coaches talking to them. Maybe he does everything during timeouts, whatever his method is, it doesn't work.
CLear as mud. YOu think Groce or TOS instructed during time out? I look across the NCAA. Looks like Saul huddles with his coaches and then talks to the kids...like most coaches. UNless I am missing something from the hospital bed and couch this year it looks pretty standard. YOu would rather a Bobby Knight or Frank Martin? That is not what got him here. He was hired based on results. He did not change how he coaches once he walked in the Convo.

How about defining what you would ideally like to see....

Did you say the same thing about Groce in his first season? We got some building to do ...but you can't take those personalities in the locker room and destroy them without leaving a mark that carries forward into the future. Would you want a new boss to come in your work and shake everything up and just demolish the workplace. Why is it different with a basketball program. It is about building and just because our timeline is not satisfied does not mean it is not working.
mcbin
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Posted: 2/21/2015 7:53 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
What's frustrating for me to watch is all the mistakes we make and we have no leadership on the sidelines coaching. Tony had 3 3 point attempts tonight, after each one not a word to tony from Saul. No movement on the offense, not a word from Saul. During the game there is very little instruction from him, and when players come off the floor they sit down and there is no coaches talking to them. Maybe he does everything during timeouts, whatever his method is, it doesn't work.
I'm guessing you didn't see the interaction with the JC staff & team during the past year(s).
Last Edited: 2/21/2015 7:53:21 PM by mcbin
Cielec321
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:01 PM
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My point is if your team is playing like crap, I would expect to see more leadership from the captain of the ship during the game. Maybe the plan is to let Tony shoot 3's instead of the people that should be shooting 3's, maybe the team is supposed to sometimes look lost and lethargic on offense with absolutely no movement. But to my simple mind those things shouldn't be happening and the coach should be up their butt during the game correcting and COACHING.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:03 PM
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Hey, Billy's teams knew how to score. His defense was perhaps the best example of the matador defense that I've ever seen. I think he was trying to install the run-and-gun offense and his philosophy was that defense didn't matter if you could score 105 each game. However, he once lost a game to Ohio Wesleyan when his team did hit that magic mark.
Last Edited: 2/21/2015 11:05:33 PM by OhioCatFan
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:10 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
My point is if your team is playing like crap, I would expect to see more leadership from the captain of the ship during the game. Maybe the plan is to let Tony shoot 3's instead of the people that should be shooting 3's, maybe the team is supposed to sometimes look lost and lethargic on offense with absolutely no movement. But to my simple mind those things shouldn't be happening and the coach should be up their butt during the game correcting and COACHING.
I think you are wrong here. First, Tony is a good three-point shooter, as borna said. How many of our games have you watched? Second, it's not Saul's style to berate players in front of anyone. He's made it clear that discipline is done in the locker room and stays in the locker room. I had one former player tell me that Saul was a "players coach." This former player, who is better at accessing these kinds of things than I am, was very high on Saul's coaching ability. You don't get the respect from your charges by humiliating them in front of the fans. It may work for some coaches, but Saul's not that kind of a coach. His past record shows that his approach can be successful, but this year he has some players that just don't jell together very well. He's a good coach. I'm sure of that. But, he was dealt not the best hand in the world.
Last Edited: 2/21/2015 9:12:42 PM by OhioCatFan
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:16 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
My point is if your team is playing like crap, I would expect to see more leadership from the captain of the ship during the game. Maybe the plan is to let Tony shoot 3's instead of the people that should be shooting 3's, maybe the team is supposed to sometimes look lost and lethargic on offense with absolutely no movement. But to my simple mind those things shouldn't be happening and the coach should be up their butt during the game correcting and COACHING.
The plan IS for Tony to shoot threes...he's second on the team in 3 pt. %. I'm glad he shoots them. Most teams have big men who shoot those shots.

I have heard Coach Phillips say that he doesn't believe in trying to do a lot of correcting and instructing at the moment a kid comes off the floor. Says he doesn't believe they absorb or listen. But I'm sure he does some of that during times out.
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Posted: 2/21/2015 9:55 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Hey, Billy's teams knew how to score. His defense was perhaps the best example of the matador defense that I've ever seen. I think he was trying to install the and run-and-gun offense and his philosophy was that defense didn't matter if you could score 105 each game. However, he once lost a game to Ohio Wesleyan when his team did hit that magic mark.

That OWU team was also a DIII National Championship team, and had an athlete who was better than anyone OHIO had on their roster, in Scott Tedder.
Cielec321
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Posted: 2/21/2015 10:13 PM
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Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks. It doesn't make sense, any way you slice it this team is more talented than their record. I've missed 2 home games this year and can only listen to away games so there's alot of basketball I don't get to see. Maybe all that they are doing is part of the plan but to me it's been ugly.
davepi2
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Posted: 2/21/2015 11:01 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Hey, Billy's teams knew how to score. His defense was perhaps the best example of the matador defense that I've ever seen. I think he was trying to install the and run-and-gun offense and his philosophy was that defense didn't matter if you could score 105 each game. However, he once lost a game to Ohio Wesleyan when his team did hit that magic mark.

That OWU team was also a DIII National Championship team, and had an athlete who was better than anyone OHIO had on their roster, in Scott Tedder.
OWU this year has a guard better then any we have on our roster. His name is Axelrod. Fun to watch.
Pataskala
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Posted: 2/21/2015 11:02 PM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks. It doesn't make sense, any way you slice it this team is more talented than their record. I've missed 2 home games this year and can only listen to away games so there's alot of basketball I don't get to see. Maybe all that they are doing is part of the plan but to me it's been ugly.
"All those threes" is a bit overstating it. He shot three today, which is about his average (2.7 per game). He's fourth on the team in number of threes attempted but second in threes made. He's second on the team in 3-pt percentage and leads the team in FG percentage (49.5%). I have no problem with him coming out to shoot an occasional three, especially against a zone; he'd have at least four inches on any defender out there. I have more confidence in Campbell shooting threes than I do most of our guards.
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Posted: 2/21/2015 11:51 PM
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I wouldn't spend too much time on this, anybody who has paid attention this year can see that Tony has a nice stroke and can hit threes at a good percentage. Some people seem to think if you're over 6' 5" you should only do one thing and be in one place and the same thing but different things and places for the under 6' 5" crowd. All 3 3s by Tony were good shots today, only one was slightly rushed but that's because it was a shot clock situation. Our problem today was that nobody could hit anything from anywhere, including the free throw line. This team cannot shoot poorly and win.
bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
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Posted: 2/22/2015 10:21 AM
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Cielec321 wrote:expand_more
Tony throwing up all those 3's is like posting bean up underneath and letting him try a couple hooks. It doesn't make sense, any way you slice it this team is more talented than their record. I've missed 2 home games this year and can only listen to away games so there's alot of basketball I don't get to see. Maybe all that they are doing is part of the plan but to me it's been ugly.
Again, why does it not make sense for Tony, who is a good 3 pt shooter, to shoot 3's? Do you not realize how well he is shooting or do you just have something against big men shooting 3's all together?

Some of the best teams in the country feature big men who shoot 3's. Wisconsin with Kaminski, Gonzaga with Wiltjer, and No. Iowa with Seth Tuttle. It's 2015 you have to get used to it.
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