Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 4 Thread: Belmont
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Taiwan BC
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Posted: 12/1/2014 6:09 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:
- 2 turnovers? I see that we had 6, and feel like there is no way we had less than 5. But even with 6, we kept much better care of the ball.

Ah, I see what happened. The original box score has since been amended to show 6 turnovers. Luckily for me, STATSHEET.COM runs a macro data input of the first box score that does not change after the initial input. I mean, how many times does a box score have incorrect data and need to be refreshed... (Cough, cough) ;)

Here is what the original box score read as: http://bobcatupdate.com/ohio-basketball/boxscore/belmont-...


Regardless, I will take 6 turnovers every game please.
Last Edited: 12/1/2014 6:10:39 AM by Taiwan BC
bornacatfan
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Posted: 12/1/2014 8:10 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Borna, one of those basics kids just don't get nowadays.
Untrue. The simplest of scouts is going to include what way a particular player likes to go. I've seen practices where they went over how and where to force a particular player to go a particular way.
that is on the defensive side...and yet why would you have to tell them and repetitively tell a defender out of each time out???? They should look at a player and figure it out the first few seconds. I don't recall past 5th grade EVER having to tell Tommy which way a kid was going to go. I remember in 8 th grade going to the varsity coach after tommy was benched after playing Zach Hahn (Butler) in 15 AAU games by the 8th grade coach for overplaying him on hte left side. The coach insisted he play his right hand, having never seen him before, when tommy jumped to and took away his left the coach benched him for not listening. Point being. If you teach a kid to see those things early It becomes 2nd nature and does not necessarily have to be on a scout. That play in the last 2 secs vs Belmont just blew me away that no one stepped to the right hand and at least impeded the progress

Still does not address the problem that kids do not develope their OFF hand. Makes the scout that much more important if a guy like mavunga always takes one dribble and comes back right. Still playing pro ball in europe and coming back right. Just step to the right.
bn9
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Posted: 12/1/2014 9:27 AM
stub wrote:expand_more
I bet we guard the inbounder next time.
I hope so. Bradshaw brought the ball up uncontested until he was at full speed past half court when a stationary R. Taylor tried to pick him up. I understand going with Taylor as he has good arm length to defend the shot, but I would have preferred Bean pestering him all the way.

Anyway, good effort by the Cats. Makes me more optimistic about the season.But let's start the players who play most of the game and are on the court at crunch time. Enough of the slow starts.
As I watched from my upgraded seats (only good thing about playing with students/band out of town) I can tell you that Bean could not guard Bradshaw. He got worked all night long. I would like to see a stat of who Bradshaw scored on. Bean is a great spot up shooter and would be excellent coming off the bench and shooting us in and out of games. He is the only guy on the team that we have (sorry, NDour) that has the ability to get hot and dominate a game. But, he is a sub-par defender and a terrible passer.

Also, I don't think that we have had a guy in the last 15 to 20 years that has had the combination of basketball IQ and athletic ability to make the play that R. Taylor did on that put back.

One more point, Saul looks completely comfortable on the bench. The game is no where too big for him. He is thoughtful and composed. I really enjoyed watching him work on Saturday night.
OUVan
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Posted: 12/1/2014 10:05 AM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Borna, one of those basics kids just don't get nowadays. Make the play predictable by shifting your feet over and making the kid go to his weak side?
Disagree that this isn't taught. This was just a case of our defenders freezing up when the lights were the brightest. It looked like slow reactions, indecision and a fear of fouling. But you have to make him change directions.
RSBobcat
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Posted: 12/2/2014 12:52 AM
bn9 wrote:expand_more
I bet we guard the inbounder next time.
I hope so. Bradshaw brought the ball up uncontested until he was at full speed past half court when a stationary R. Taylor tried to pick him up. I understand going with Taylor as he has good arm length to defend the shot, but I would have preferred Bean pestering him all the way.

Anyway, good effort by the Cats. Makes me more optimistic about the season.But let's start the players who play most of the game and are on the court at crunch time. Enough of the slow starts.
As I watched from my upgraded seats (only good thing about playing with students/band out of town) I can tell you that Bean could not guard Bradshaw. He got worked all night long. I would like to see a stat of who Bradshaw scored on. Bean is a great spot up shooter and would be excellent coming off the bench and shooting us in and out of games. He is the only guy on the team that we have (sorry, NDour) that has the ability to get hot and dominate a game. But, he is a sub-par defender and a terrible passer.

Also, I don't think that we have had a guy in the last 15 to 20 years that has had the combination of basketball IQ and athletic ability to make the play that R. Taylor did on that put back.

One more point, Saul looks completely comfortable on the bench. The game is no where too big for him. He is thoughtful and composed. I really enjoyed watching him work on Saturday night.
Therefore my occasional "glue shoes" comments per Bean. He gets beat off the dribble Constantly.
100%Cat
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Posted: 12/2/2014 10:25 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Fantastic game, I also took the opportunity for the seat upgrade to the Ozone.

- Bradshaw was absolutely incredible, I can't recall a better performance by an opponent. He looked so damn good with the ball. We win by 20+ without him in the game. If you missed it, watch this video and see some of the shots and moves this kid made - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M708S9U6NyQ
- Bradds did not impress me much. He seemed OK and a nice player to have on the roster, but not the kind of lost recruit that makes you weep tears every time you see mention of him (grumble grumble Levert stomp stomp)
- 2 turnovers? I see that we had 6, and feel like there is no way we had less than 5. But even with 6, we kept much better care of the ball.
- I am president of the Tony Campbell fan club, but he has to take less 3 balls. Wide open on the wing (like the one that he made) and/or late in the shot clock? Sure. Otherwise, he needs to get in that paint because he's awesome in there.
- Treg with 3 fouls in 15 minutes, and a couple nice plays and energy boost. This is him, and those that thought his role would be much different are proven to be mistaken.
- Ryan Taylor's mid-range jumper will long be revered by Bobcats fans. Usually when a player goes up for a should-be-able-to-make-it jumper like that, I brace myself for being disappointed, but not with Ryan.
- No mention yet of Ryan Taylor's put back dunk at a crucial point late in the game? Holy Moly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O81Z-yZMyFY
- Bean & Stevie recovered and played well.
- I rarely complain about the refs, but the foul on Ndour to send Bradshaw to the line with 2 to go was garbage, all ball and the ref blew the whistle before the play was even over.
- I like how Bean forgot about chewing clock and took the high percentage drive to the basket with 30ish seconds to go, just shocked that he missed it.
- Also not upset he scored with 7 seconds still to go. I hate when teams just stand at the key and let the clock wind down then hurry and force some bad shot.
- And lastly, not (too) upset about the defense on the final play. They would've gotten the ball to him going up the court no matter what, there was plenty of time for him to shake free. Ryan let him get by but forced him outside, Treg was in position and he let a ridiculous floater go and it went in (of course). Had Ndour not fouled out, I am not so sure that ball would've ever found the backboard.
- I thought attendance was pretty good for T-give weekend. The place would have been hopping down the stretch if not on break. I felt bad for coach who tried to pump up the crowd to little avail a couple times.

I'm not down with everyone saying this year could be rough, I think by MAC play we will be playing some pretty good ball.
Very well said and I agree with just about everything. It was a fantastic game to watch, just a disappointing ending. Gotta give that kid credit, though, he made the tough shot and had a whale of a night. I think we'll be just fine. I agree with Saul when he said post game, that effort will win you a lot of ball games.
davepi2
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Posted: 12/2/2014 11:07 AM
I have watched a lot of college basketball in person over the last 10 years and this was probably the second best game I have seen. Too bad the wrong team won, still a great great game.
100%Cat
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Posted: 12/12/2014 1:54 PM
Craig Bradshaw missed the last two games for Belmont with a lower leg injury. Belmont lost both games, to Evansville and Wright St, respectively. Both games were at home.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/7/2015 12:13 AM
watching Belmont vs EKU in the semi final of the OVC. Tie game under a minute Bradds goes 2 for 2 from the ft line as a 64% FT shooter. Ric Bird throws a 2 3 zone up with 13 secs left. Big chess match for the berth in the conf final....Belmont goes to the title game. Pretty good game for Belmont who was playing from behind most of the game till Taylor Barnett hit a 3 to tie late.
Tyler
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Posted: 3/8/2015 10:47 AM
Belmont upset the #1 seed Murray State yesterday to earn their ticket to the dance.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/8/2015 3:07 PM
Tyler wrote:expand_more
Belmont upset the #1 seed Murray State yesterday to earn their ticket to the dance.
I watched a lot of the game. Evan Bradds had very good tournament. Taylor Barnett hit an off balance three with just over three seconds left to win it. He's got a really funky delivery and I didn't think it had a chance when it left his hand. They aren't a very good defensive team so they'll need to continue to shoot really well to win in the tournament.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/8/2015 8:43 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
Belmont upset the #1 seed Murray State yesterday to earn their ticket to the dance.
I watched a lot of the game. Evan Bradds had very good tournament. Taylor Barnett hit an off balance three with just over three seconds left to win it. He's got a really funky delivery and I didn't think it had a chance when it left his hand. They aren't a very good defensive team so they'll need to continue to shoot really well to win in the tournament.
Good analysis Van. I agree. They are a good shooting team the few games I have been able to watch lately
Last Edited: 3/8/2015 8:45:09 PM by bornacatfan
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/9/2015 9:47 AM
The thing about Belmont winning that bugs me the most: Murray State being listed as one of the First Four Out. They deserve that bid more than a losing Texas team.
bornacatfan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 10:05 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
The thing about Belmont winning that bugs me the most: Murray State being listed as one of the First Four Out. They deserve that bid more than a losing Texas team.
They at least put them in "the bucket" for the committee to consider. Unfortunately SOS is in the tank and they did not pursue the OOC schedule with the idea of needing the bump for an at large. Committee gonna reward a Buffalo that plays Wisky and UK on the road rather than losses to Xavier and Valpo on the road.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 10:17 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
The thing about Belmont winning that bugs me the most: Murray State being listed as one of the First Four Out. They deserve that bid more than a losing Texas team.
Would love to see them get in just so I could see Jay Bilas' head explode.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 10:33 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Committee gonna reward a Buffalo that plays Wisky and UK on the road rather than losses to Xavier and Valpo on the road.
I doubt either gets an at-large. As for Murray State, they really don't have much of a case other than they ran their regular season conference. They only played 3 top 100 RPI teams and they got absolutely thumped in two of those (the abovementioned Xavier and Valpo. Throw in bad losses to Portland and Houston and the goods just aren't there. One good win (Illinois State) isn't exactly what the committee is looking for.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/9/2015 12:37 PM
I guess my argument is always going to be that a 27-5 (16-0) Mid Major that loses in it's conference title game always deserves more than a "power" conference team that has more losses than wins in it's conference.

I love watching Big 12 hoops, but I don't think Texas or Ok State belong as it stands right now. Win 3-4 in a row in the conference tournament and then I'd give them the nod.
Mike Johnson
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Posted: 3/9/2015 3:57 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I guess my argument is always going to be that a 27-5 (16-0) Mid Major that loses in it's conference title game always deserves more than a "power" conference team that has more losses than wins in it's conference.

I love watching Big 12 hoops, but I don't think Texas or Ok State belong as it stands right now. Win 3-4 in a row in the conference tournament and then I'd give them the nod.
And did you ever wonder how "powerful" the power conf teams would look if they didn't lard their non-conf schedules with HOME games with the likes of Houston Baptist, Charleston Southern, Delaware State? Heck, even Northwestern which won something like 5 conf games went something like 12-1 in non-conf play.

Yesterday during Wisconsin's eviscerating of OSU, Announcer #1 said, "Ohio State still will be in the tournament." Announcer #2 agreed but added, "Their non-conference schedule wasn't very difficult. They won only one game against a top 50 team."

As fond as I am of John Groce, should his 9-9 Illini make the tournament? Betcha their non-conf schedule looks much like OSU, Northwestern and the other "power" conf schools.
OUVan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 4:27 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
As fond as I am of John Groce, should his 9-9 Illini make the tournament? Betcha their non-conf schedule looks much like OSU, Northwestern and the other "power" conf schools.
More than half of Illinois' schedule (16 games) was against team in the top 100 in RPI. They played four pretty tough OOC games (Villanova, Baylor, Oregon, Miami (fl)) albeit losing 3 of the 4 but none of them were played at home. I doubt Illinois gets in but comparing their resume to Murray State doesn't do the Racers much good. Murray State played three teams in the top 100 RPI and went 1-2 (2 absolute blowouts). They played 5 games against teams that were 100-150 in RPI and went 3-2. That's 4-4 against top 150 teams. 15 of their wins were against teams that had an RPI of 200 or higher. Only 6 of Illinois' wins were 200+.

I root for the little guys but if you are Murray State you have to do a better job scheduling. And I don't mean meeting the big boys on their terms. I mean going after home and homes with teams that you know will be good. You can't afford to have any cupcakes on your schedule because your league is packed with them. They did play four MVC teams but three of them were in the bottom half of the league. And if you only play a handful of good teams you better do well in those games. One win against Illinois State just isn't enough.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/9/2015 4:31 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
I guess my argument is always going to be that a 27-5 (16-0) Mid Major that loses in it's conference title game always deserves more than a "power" conference team that has more losses than wins in it's conference.

I love watching Big 12 hoops, but I don't think Texas or Ok State belong as it stands right now. Win 3-4 in a row in the conference tournament and then I'd give them the nod.
And did you ever wonder how "powerful" the power conf teams would look if they didn't lard their non-conf schedules with HOME games with the likes of Houston Baptist, Charleston Southern, Delaware State? Heck, even Northwestern which won something like 5 conf games went something like 12-1 in non-conf play.

Yesterday during Wisconsin's eviscerating of OSU, Announcer #1 said, "Ohio State still will be in the tournament." Announcer #2 agreed but added, "Their non-conference schedule wasn't very difficult. They won only one game against a top 50 team."

As fond as I am of John Groce, should his 9-9 Illini make the tournament? Betcha their non-conf schedule looks much like OSU, Northwestern and the other "power" conf schools.
Believe me, I agree with this. It's why I wish the selection committee or NCAA would REQUIRE schools to play at least 3 true road games during November and December. Things would get interesting then, because mid-majors would be able to get a couple good home games.

As for the Illini, they actually played a nice blend of cup cakes and good teams this year. They played Villanova, Baylor, Miami (ACC/B1G, I know), Oregon, and the annual game against Mizzou.

I've said it before, but if I were an OSU ticket holder, I'd be ticked. I'd be begging for 2-3 more games against someone interesting. I've also said it before, but there is zero excuse for them not playing 1-2 of UC, UD, and Xavier every season in a home and home. Quit being chicken, and play the best schools in your own state. There's nothing to lose, really.


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