Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official MAC Tourney First Round Thread: Western Michigan
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Chicken George
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Posted: 3/9/2015 10:30 PM
As frustrating, uninspiring and hopeless this season has seemed--I bought the telecast and cheered the entire game just as I do every year. Even kept my hotel reservations for Cleveland and quite honestly, probably would've still made the trip. Happy that we competed and happy Stevie played so well. Honestly didn't think they could stop Mo if we lobbed it into him the entire game, which we did a lot but probably could've done even more of down the stretch vs. reverting to contested 3 pointers. But as much as I hate missing my annual Cleveland trip, it's probably best this season ended and we turn the page. Will certainly make us all appreciate the tournament runs of the past and make us look forward to runs in the future. As much as I hoped for a dramatic finish to the season, this season had no legs and it was time. Looking forward to better fortunes moving forward!
OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/9/2015 10:39 PM
51 second half points by WMU. Whew.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 11:39 PM
oldkatz wrote:expand_more
. . . Appears that when you're 70, you repeat yourself, too.
Nice, guess, old Army man, but it was my young computer that did that for me. After serious internet issues over the weekend, I had some cache problems with my browser. TWC was here today stringing new coax from the pole to the house.
OhioStunter
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Posted: 3/9/2015 11:49 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Appears that when you're 70, you repeat yourself, too.
Nice, guess, old Army man, but it was my young computer that did that for me. After serious internet issues over the weekend, I had some cache problems with my browser. TWC was here today stringing new coax from the pole to the house.
Why did I just read this and hear the voice of Stadler and Waldorf?
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/9/2015 11:55 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
. . . Appears that when you're 70, you repeat yourself, too.
Nice, guess, old Army man, but it was my young computer that did that for me. After serious internet issues over the weekend, I had some cache problems with my browser. TWC was here today stringing new coax from the pole to the house.
Why did I just read this and hear the voice of Stadler and Waldorf?
Good one . . . made me chuckle. ;-)
perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/10/2015 8:12 AM
WMU's box score was very symmetrical-

12-30 from 2
12-27 from 3
22-27 from 1

Ohio was +14pts from 2 (19-32), -15pts from 3 (7-26), and -7pts from 1 (15-20). Ohio was net -1 from the field this time and net -1 the previous time in Kzoo. Just like last time WMU's ability to get to the line more was the difference.
intrpdtrvlr
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Posted: 3/10/2015 8:55 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
WMU's box score was very symmetrical-

12-30 from 2
12-27 from 3
22-27 from 1

Ohio was +14pts from 2 (19-32), -15pts from 3 (7-26), and -7pts from 1 (15-20). Ohio was net -1 from the field this time and net -1 the previous time in Kzoo. Just like last time WMU's ability to get to the line more was the difference.
I don't know about that take. It sure looked to me like David Brown getting loose in the second half, WMU hitting almost 45% of their threes, and Ohio taking (and missing) some ill-advised deep balls early in the shot clock (27% for the game) during the 2nd half were the difference to me.
perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/10/2015 10:59 AM
intrpdtrvlr wrote:expand_more
WMU's box score was very symmetrical-

12-30 from 2
12-27 from 3
22-27 from 1

Ohio was +14pts from 2 (19-32), -15pts from 3 (7-26), and -7pts from 1 (15-20). Ohio was net -1 from the field this time and net -1 the previous time in Kzoo. Just like last time WMU's ability to get to the line more was the difference.
I don't know about that take. It sure looked to me like David Brown getting loose in the second half, WMU hitting almost 45% of their threes, and Ohio taking (and missing) some ill-advised deep balls early in the shot clock (27% for the game) during the 2nd half were the difference to me.
After WMU tied the game 52-52 with a D Brown 3pt with 10:49 left the Broncos outscored the Bobcats 30-22 down the stretch. Here's how they did it-

2 pointers
WMU 8pts (4-7), all 3 misses were layups
OU 16pts (8-10), Stevie 3-5, Mo 4-4, Bean 1-1
Ohio +8pts inside the arc

3 pointers
WMU 6pts (2-3) D Brown 2-2
Ohio 0pts (0-6) Bean 0-3, Stevie 0-1, Mo 0-1, Tony 0-1
Ohio -6pts outside the arc

1 pointers
WMU 16pts (16-17),
OU 6pts (6-10) Bean 2-2, Stevie 0-1, Mo 4-7
Ohio -10pts from the foul line


After tying the game at 52-52 at the 10:49 mark WMU was 6-10 from the foul line and Ohio was 9-10. For the rest of the game WMU scored 14pts on 6-10(.600)shooting and Ohio scored 16pts on 8-16(.500) shooting. In spite of D Brown going 2-2 from 3pt and Bean going 0-3 the Bobcats were +2pts in the final 11 minutes after being tied. Enough to win but were outscored 16-6 at the foul line.

Fouls by player in final 10:49
Stevie, 2 fouls = 4pts
Ryan, 2 fouls = 4pts
Bean, 2 fouls = 4pts
Tone, 2 fouls = 2pts
Mo, 2 fouls = 2pts
Treg, 2 fouls = 0pts

It was a group effort.
intrpdtrvlr
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Posted: 3/10/2015 11:22 AM
There's two errors in that analysis for me.
1. Points scored and plays made to close an 8-point 2nd half gap and tie the game count as well. You can't read the game by picking it up from the 52-52 tie and then decide what made the difference. The effort WMU made to get to that point and Ohio's mistakes count, as does the massive momentum swing that resulted.
2. A bit of that foul disparity is the result of Ohio fouling down the stretch when the lead ballooned to 10. Wilder himself had 4 made FTs in the final 1:30.

I understand that WMU had a big run of FTs from 10:00 to 5:00 that helped put Ohio in a hole. Still, part of that was our inability to defend, the same issue that led to the game getting tied up.

I'm not sure if your suggestion is that Ohio was officiated out of the game or just that "WMU got to the line more." I don't think we were screwed by the refs last night. Sure, there were a few dubious home calls but it wasn't outrageous. The defense was not there in the second half like it was in the first and WMU made shots they had missed early on.
BobcatSports
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:16 PM
We were massively outscored in bench points - WMU 33 to OHIO 2. Coupled with our shortened bench, no Khari, we only went 2 deep and Treg had 3 fouls in 12 minutes played. As has been the case in way too many instances this year Saul's hand has been severely limited in what in game options he can go to. It only magnifies itself as the game plays out.
OU_Country
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:35 PM
BobcatSports wrote:expand_more
We were massively outscored in bench points - WMU 33 to OHIO 2. Coupled with our shortened bench, no Khari, we only went 2 deep and Treg had 3 fouls in 12 minutes played. As has been the case in way too many instances this year Saul's hand has been severely limited in what in game options he can go to. It only magnifies itself as the game plays out.
I agree - once a couple players get into foul trouble, Saul was in a big hole when it came to options. Next year, this shouldn't be a problem at any position unless there isn't someone who can handle playing 10 minutes to back up the point. Every other position will have legitimate competition for PT.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 3/10/2015 12:55 PM
I think one big difference next year is that our chances of winning won't hinge on streaky 3-point shooting. Kaminski, from all I've heard, isn't a streak three point shooter. I'm not saying he won't have a down game every now and then, but he'll be Mr. Consistency from three-point land. Though I don't have a large sample, the few times I've seen him make threes, he doesn't jump up and down and act like he's just won the lottery, he just calmly runs down the court to a defensive position. I also expect our freshmen to improve, and for Tony to come into his own. I project a totally different team chemistry with Simmons and Kaminiski added to those who are coming back, and this is not even looking at the new guys coming in. Go OHIO!
perimeterpost
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Posted: 3/10/2015 1:13 PM
I don't think the fouls are an indication of the way the game was being called by the refs, I think it was an indication of how the players played. But I'm not completely sure what the root cause of it was- was it physical fatigue with only a 7 man rotation, was it the mental fatigue of trying to keep a lead and then losing it, was it a feeling of inevitability once the game was tied, are we just unable to focus for 40 minutes straight? Don't know.

Here's the margin of loss for our 14 MAC losses this year-
5-7-8-10-10-11-11-11-11-12-13-15-27-34

And here's the margin of victory for our 5 MAC wins-
1-2-3-9-30

We managed to win some close ones but rarely lost close ones, when we lost we usually lost big. Why did we lose big so often, was it the same reason we lost last night?
Steve
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Posted: 3/10/2015 1:41 PM
Seven new guys will be a very different experience. We haven't had such a big freshman class (five) in a long time. There will be some rocky moments, no doubt, but if it's happening with guys who have a high ceiling that will be a lot more tolerable than this season.
LuckySparrow
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Posted: 3/14/2015 11:08 PM
I was in attendance for this one, scored some perfectly centered seats to watch what I thought would be the end of Taylor, NDour, and Bean's career.

And it was! I was definitely proud of the way Stevie and NDour played. Foul trouble and David Brown proved to be too much.

Oh well - that was the only chance I had to see this year's team in person so I had to make the trip. Pregame beers at Bell's made it totally worth it.
mcbin
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Posted: 3/15/2015 8:17 PM
Those of you who ponied up $8.95 to watch the game, make sure that you log on and unsubscribe. As a 'convenience' to you, they will charge you monthly so that you don't have to re-up yourself every month.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 3/16/2015 12:08 AM
I ran into this problem with Northern Iowa a few years ago.
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