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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Campbell on the Sook Center
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TWT
4/10/2016 12:56 PM
Says he will use it if completed before he graduates. I know some fans think of the Sook Center as nothing more than a study hall for the football team but in other sports it probably helps more.

http://www.thepostathens.com/news/sook-center-ohio-univer...
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Gallia Cat
4/10/2016 2:07 PM
I am guessing it will used on game days as well. I can't remember the exact plans but I think it has a viewing deck on the inside? From a visual standpoint perhaps it will make those awkward corner sections of the stadium not seem so awkward.
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giacomo
4/11/2016 2:09 PM
Why not go to Alden Library? That's what we did.
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bornacatfan
4/12/2016 11:56 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Why not go to Alden Library? That's what we did.
Umm

I dunno...they are on that end of campus for living arrangements and meals, practice, weights...they have access to their tutors and advisors right there... things change over time...some for the better. You can't always jump in and say "We did it this way" and assume your experience is anything like what today's athletes have.

I remember Ted Kitchell talking to me about his IU experience and how when guys like Isiah Thomas came in, they actually started lifting weights. H related and lamented having a couple of hours a day that they had never spent and being in the facility with football was a new experience.His HS coach, the great Basil Mawbey re iterated his conversations with TK at the time.

Things change, the logistics of life on campus change, new apartments and food service locations change. Diets, weights, academic advisors, tutors and a ton of things you never dealt with are at play. Just blithely offering up your one line chastisements tells me you may not be trying to understand. Though you may not be....the rest of life around you is changing. A little understanding and empathy for those in today's game may be in order. They may also understand that OHIO is doing a lot to make life for our athletes on par with what other college have found to be successful is a good thing to avail themselves of. Certainly can't hurt when a parent is on a recruiting trip to see that we are committed to our athletes.....or we could just tell Mom and Dad ....."no.No academic focus....they are going to have to walk up to the library and study with no help, direction or accountability"

The one thing that got DJ here was his mom understanding that he would leave with a degree. JG rode him hard and had him on track.....
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giacomo
4/13/2016 3:57 PM
Borna, I do agree that things are changing. These "amenities" that are provided are in fact non monetary compensation. They do everything but pay them and more so at P5 level. My point is that first you are there to go to school and if you consider it important to pursue a degree you'll find a way to get to the library. I believe that the further you separate the athletes from the rest of the student body, the more they are truly not students. They are something else, maybe employees? If so, they are underpaid. The NCAA wants to avoid that and that's why you see all the breakfast bars, study lounges, kicked up locker rooms, etc. It's all non-monetary compensation.
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Alan Swank
4/13/2016 8:20 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Borna, I do agree that things are changing. These "amenities" that are provided are in fact non monetary compensation. They do everything but pay them and more so at P5 level. My point is that first you are there to go to school and if you consider it important to pursue a degree you'll find a way to get to the library. I believe that the further you separate the athletes from the rest of the student body, the more they are truly not students. They are something else, maybe employees? If so, they are underpaid. The NCAA wants to avoid that and that's why you see all the breakfast bars, study lounges, kicked up locker rooms, etc. It's all non-monetary compensation.
Amen!Tthings change but not always for the better. I'm waiting for the day when someone files a court case against this sort of special treatment and don't kid yourself - it is special treatment. My daughter played collegiate volleyball for four years, was president of her sorority and had a summer job and graduated in four years. She never had a tutor, never went to a study hall or never had a training table. Traveled to every match by bus and still got it done. This stuff has gotten way out of hand and has moved so far from what college is supposed to be.
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Alan Swank
4/13/2016 8:33 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Why not go to Alden Library? That's what we did.
Umm

.No academic focus....they are going to have to walk up to the library and study with no help, direction or accountability"
And what full paying student gets this hand holding? It's called personal accountability.
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Jeff McKinney
4/13/2016 10:10 PM
Alan...you judge how Div I programs operate by Div III standards. You have the right to that opinion, but athletics has a more prominent role at Div I schools and the athletes are treated in a commensurate manner. I'd suggest you seriously start lobbying your representatives in government and university boards to bring about the downgrading of athletics you desire at Div I.
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perimeterpost
4/13/2016 11:09 PM
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
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TWT
4/14/2016 12:14 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Good work. For McCracken OU was allowed to take out bonds to finance but for the Sook Center it had to raise private donations. Its not a choice between Sook and Alden. Its a choice between Sook and the Phillips Academic Center in Peden Tower where the student athlete study hall already exists. Secondly, while Sook will have academic space a big component of it is the additional office space so they can move their compliance team over there. At the moment coaches are doubling up on offices and they won't have to do it with the offices that are added by the Sook project. Improves the game day experience with ground floor bathrooms also.
Last Edited: 4/14/2016 12:14:58 AM by TWT
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The Optimist
4/14/2016 8:04 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Wow. That's eye-opening, especially when you consider the private donations aspect to the Sook Center funding.
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 8:51 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Wow. That's eye-opening, especially when you consider the private donations aspect to the Sook Center funding.
$28 million of the college of ed funding came from a private donor and after all, training teachers is a core mission of the university.
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 8:56 AM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
Alan...you judge how Div I programs operate by Div III standards. You have the right to that opinion, but athletics has a more prominent role at Div I schools and the athletes are treated in a commensurate manner. I'd suggest you seriously start lobbying your representatives in government and university boards to bring about the downgrading of athletics you desire at Div I.
Thanks for granting me that right Jeff. Prominent role? I'd contend distorted role. As for lobbying my local representative or board member, with the current clowns in Columbus now that's a waste of time and energy (just look at fracking waste or the bill that defunded Planned Parenthood) and we had a board member on here who just spewed the party line of spend more so we can keep up.

Forgive my rant because it's at this time of year that I continually hear about and from soon to be graduates that they have a ton of debt facing them in the very near future yet we continue to spend precious resources on and pamper 400 of their peers, the majority of whom leave here with little to no debt. When you are this close to it, it is a tad disturbing.
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mf279801
4/14/2016 8:57 AM
perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Woah now, that's some pretty high level math for anyone who graduated from McCraken to process, let alone argue with

(I kid, I kid because I love...and because I don't respect the academic rigors of that discipline :-D)
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 9:05 AM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Woah now, that's some pretty high level math for anyone who graduated from McCraken to process, let alone argue with

(I kid, I kid because I love...and because I don't respect the academic rigors of that discipline :-D)
I guess you never had a great and inspiring teacher Matt. And what pray tell was your major?
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shabamon
4/14/2016 9:13 AM
If the Sook Center can be credited with raising athlete GPAs, keeping them eligible, and is able to sell premium seats for football games, isn't that a net gain for the university?
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Jeff McKinney
4/14/2016 9:53 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Alan...you judge how Div I programs operate by Div III standards. You have the right to that opinion, but athletics has a more prominent role at Div I schools and the athletes are treated in a commensurate manner. I'd suggest you seriously start lobbying your representatives in government and university boards to bring about the downgrading of athletics you desire at Div I.
Thanks for granting me that right Jeff. Prominent role? I'd contend distorted role. As for lobbying my local representative or board member, with the current clowns in Columbus now that's a waste of time and energy (just look at fracking waste or the bill that defunded Planned Parenthood) and we had a board member on here who just spewed the party line of spend more so we can keep up.

Forgive my rant because it's at this time of year that I continually hear about and from soon to be graduates that they have a ton of debt facing them in the very near future yet we continue to spend precious resources on and pamper 400 of their peers, the majority of whom leave here with little to no debt. When you are this close to it, it is a tad disturbing.
Al, not arrogant enough to "grant" you the right...just acknowledging that it's a legitimate point of view based on values . Others reach different conclusions based on other values. And supporting the Div I model doesn't necessarily mean supporting the arms race.
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Bobcatbob
4/14/2016 9:57 AM
I have a tendency to dwell on petty slights and hang on to them for a long time (but self-reflection is a strong point!). Anyway, one of the indelible images I have of the A&M Woody Hayes Athletic Center, as evidenced by several news reports, is of large bins of CLIF Bars, Kind Bars, fruit, drinks, etc. available for the taking by student-athletes as a way to "make sure they're eating nutritious foods". They charge "regular" students a couple of bucks a pop for those same bars in campus food shops and markets.

I guess my point would be that it is probably hard for most of us to even imagine the ways the life of a D1 student-athlete differs from his/her classmates already. To ever say that the next thing, whatever that is, is the "last straw" is crazy. At this point, I see no chance to rein this in and only pressure for it to continue to diverge.

Take it for what it is, entertainment, fund raising, publicity generating, outright hypocrisy, professionalism but we are all guilty of perpetuating it every time we show up for a game or write a Bobcat Club donation.
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bornacatfan
4/14/2016 10:23 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Alan...you judge how Div I programs operate by Div III standards. You have the right to that opinion, but athletics has a more prominent role at Div I schools and the athletes are treated in a commensurate manner. I'd suggest you seriously start lobbying your representatives in government and university boards to bring about the downgrading of athletics you desire at Div I.
Thanks for granting me that right Jeff. Prominent role? I'd contend distorted role. As for lobbying my local representative or board member, with the current clowns in Columbus now that's a waste of time and energy (just look at fracking waste or the bill that defunded Planned Parenthood) and we had a board member on here who just spewed the party line of spend more so we can keep up.

Forgive my rant because it's at this time of year that I continually hear about and from soon to be graduates that they have a ton of debt facing them in the very near future yet we continue to spend precious resources on and pamper 400 of their peers, the majority of whom leave here with little to no debt. When you are this close to it, it is a tad disturbing.
Not going to argue with you about any of this Alan. It would be fruitless and you would always have an answer for any statement. Easy example...you say 400 kids are talking to you and lamenting the debt free situation. You don't take into time the level of commit these kids have been doing since early age. Had any of those 400 committed to whatever skill they had...music, acting, finance...at the level the kids on scholarship had ...they too may have had financial help. I say that because I have an actor and an artist who found money because of their commitment and passion to get to school as much as their brother who played hoops. I am sure you will have a retort because you always to. Pie in the sky solutions to level the playing field and give free money to more kids will not work and folks will not quit supporting athletics at a huge level. If nothing else sways you how about Hall, Ricardo, DJ, Tony, Asown, Devo, Walt and a plethora of others that could be listed who would not have made it to college and prepared for the future without the ride the 400 you are talking to are lamenting? Point is, all those guys here put in time doing what they are good at to get the available ride. Can those who are tearing them down and letting jealousy show through say the same?

I always hate to put anything up here because it opens a flood gate that results in a crap storm where folks yell loudly with no real solutions...only pie in the sky ideas and "if the world was perfect" scenarios that don't really help things as much as they tear down what is. Personally , I will continue to work with kids who ain't got a pot to piss in to get their grades and skills in order to get one of those schollies that the students you talk to so detest. It is their only chance to get to school and a be, in most cases, the first person in their family with a degree.
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 10:25 AM
Bobcatbob wrote:expand_more
Take it for what it is, entertainment, fund raising, publicity generating, outright hypocrisy, professionalism but we are all guilty of perpetuating it every time we show up for a game or write a Bobcat Club donation.
What a great post and point and therein lies the problem and I'm as guilty as the next hypocrite when it comes to attending games. The entertainment value of the game day experience for some people is what keeps them coming back while many folks could care less to the point that they couldn't even tell you who's playing. Different stokes for different folks I guess but an honest post you made nonetheless.
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 10:26 AM
[/QUOTE]Al, not arrogant enough to "grant" you the right...just acknowledging that it's a legitimate point of view based on values . Others reach different conclusions based on other values. And supporting the Div I model doesn't necessarily mean supporting the arms race.



[/QUOTE]Just pulling your leg Jeff. Must be tax season. Anyway, doesn't by definition our support of and participation in the D 1 experience speak to our support of the arms race?
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Jeff McKinney
4/14/2016 10:59 AM
Most of us remain in organizations even when we disagree with some policies. Reminds me of people debating whether they should stay in a denomination even when they dissent with policies or positions at the national level.

The basic source of the disagreements on this is: how much value do these athletes and the athletic programs bring to the university? I don't see us reaching a consensus on it.

Bornacatfan makes some really good points.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
4/14/2016 11:04 AM
Hmmm... this might be heresy, but if the obligations of a division 1 athlete are such that they can't get to the library (5 minute walk from Peden) or make mealtime, then maybe the NCAA should limit practice time a little more and have the student athletes return some focus to the academic portion of the "life". It sounds like I'm being sarcastic (partially because that's what I do) but I'm not.
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The Optimist
4/14/2016 11:28 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Wow. That's eye-opening, especially when you consider the private donations aspect to the Sook Center funding.
$28 million of the college of ed funding came from a private donor and after all, training teachers is a core mission of the university.

[/QUOTE]That is great. My point isn't that McCraken isn't a worthy venture. My point is that I do not respect the vast majority of criticism over the Sook Center when private donors are using their own money to the support the cause.

When it comes to money I worked to earn, "this cause is more worthy than that cause" is an argument that I not only find absurd, but also an argument that I do not respect.

[QUOTE=perimeterpost] Sook Center:
Number of student athletes = 400
Cost of building specifically made for student athletes = $5,800,000.
Cost per student = $14,500.

McCraken Hall Renovation:
Number of students majoring in Education = 1,600
Cost of building specifically renovated for Ed majors = $32,800,000.
Cost per student = $20,500.

those darned student athletes and their special treatment, when will it end?
Woah now, that's some pretty high level math for anyone who graduated from McCraken to process, let alone argue with

(I kid, I kid because I love...and because I don't respect the academic rigors of that discipline :-D)

I knew early childhood education majors who literally had to complete a coloring book for homework.
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Alan Swank
4/14/2016 11:42 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Hmmm... this might be heresy, but if the obligations of a division 1 athlete are such that they can't get to the library (5 minute walk from Peden) or make mealtime, then maybe the NCAA should limit practice time a little more and have the student athletes return some focus to the academic portion of the "life". It sounds like I'm being sarcastic (partially because that's what I do) but I'm not.
I couldn't have put it any better DFC other than to say perhaps the individual institution should place those limits on their own programs rather than the NCAA. It's not about the amount of time you spend but the quality of that time. We had an RA who studied more than anyone on our staff but he only got C's. His study quality was just plain bad.
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