Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Duquesne after Dambrot. Again.
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Recovering Journalist
3/27/2017 10:44 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
I'm not sure they're building a new arena. I was of the understanding they were renovating the Palumbo Center that's there now.
You're right, but $40 million into the old one is more than Akron would ever do the the JAR or toward a new arena. Much more institutional support at Duquesne.
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OU_Country
3/27/2017 10:59 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
I'm not sure they're building a new arena. I was of the understanding they were renovating the Palumbo Center that's there now.
You're right, but $40 million into the old one is more than Akron would ever do the the JAR or toward a new arena. Much more institutional support at Duquesne.
No doubt about that. I think they're realizing now that the institutional support is needed at Duquesne. It's a job with possibilities, that's for sure.
Last Edited: 3/27/2017 10:59:46 PM by OU_Country
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bigtillyoopsupsideurhead
3/27/2017 11:33 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Several Zips already saying they're transferring. It's looking like a full rebuild there.
I saw that Tavian Dunn Martin is leaving, but that's it so far I think.
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OU_Country
3/27/2017 11:34 PM
Also read Tavian Dunn-Martin following Dambrot to Duquesne.

EDIT besides him, KD has already offered three other Akron recruits tonight,which I know isn't uncommon, but the natives can't be pleased in Zippy land.

Upset words on Twitter from Antino Jackson and Big Dog.
Last Edited: 3/27/2017 11:52:38 PM by OU_Country
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The Optimist
3/27/2017 11:35 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Several Zips already saying they're transferring. It's looking like a full rebuild there.
Looking at their roster, they were already set to be unusually weak in the post next year for a Dambrot squad.

If Campbell gets a victory lap he may drop 50 on them in the Jar.
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OUcats82
3/27/2017 11:45 PM
Maybe they can bring HIpsher back from Oakland?
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GraffZ06
3/28/2017 12:46 AM
Wonder if Dambrot keeps Big John on the staff at Duquesne. Doubtful. Hope he finds a new good home. Maybe with Boals up at Stony Brook? Or maybe due to his health he hangs it up?
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Maddog13
3/28/2017 4:39 AM
There is always a Honeymoon period when it comes to any job, and there is always an excuse why someone cannot reach the next level. Dambrot clearly kept hitting a ceiling that he had no clue as how to get past. It makes you wonder if the Akron community was getting restless, especially with the kind of talent that he was bringing in. This sounds like a much better retirement option for Dambrot at this point than anything else. I am not sure that it reflects one way or another on the quality of the MAC. This sounds like a wise financial decision for Drambrot, who probably would have enjoyed more leverage had his team, indeed, made a postseason run. Hopefully, Dambrot will hire a Public Relations firm to work on his personal image. I guess that you just can't buy likeable.
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GoCats105
3/28/2017 7:25 AM
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
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OU_Country
3/28/2017 7:44 AM
Reading that, it gives you the idea that they took for granted the success of KD, and have the "oh crap, we better upgrade the arena now, or no coach is coming here to stay". I'm not sure of the lengths they've gone to in recent years besides the failed downtown arena a few years ago. But the lack of updates to the facility next to that expensive football stadium seems like a potential problem in getting a coach.
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The Optimist
3/28/2017 8:08 AM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
I saw that on twitter last night and couldn't take it seriously. It's just the kind of crap Dambrot says.

He can't win NCAA Tournament games anyway, so the one-bid league excuse is complete garbage.
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Ohio69
3/28/2017 8:14 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
I saw that on twitter last night and couldn't take it seriously. It's just the kind of crap Dambrot says.

He can't win NCAA Tournament games anyway, so the one-bid league excuse is complete garbage.
I disagree. The one bid league thing has a lot of merit. Hopefully a wake up call for the MAC. Your best coach from your best program just left for a low level A10 job. He basically doubled his pay. And, if he comes in second or third in his conference, he may still make the NCAA tourney. And, his fans will be very happy with that 2nd or 3rd finish. Meanwhile, here in the MAC message boards want to fire guys who come in 2nd or 3rd.....
Last Edited: 3/28/2017 8:14:58 AM by Ohio69
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GraffZ06
3/28/2017 9:35 AM
Yeah Dambrot is absolutely right. I'll say it again - like beating the dead horse - the ONLY thing that matters is NCAA tournament bids & wins in college basketball. It helps you gain recognition. It helps you recruit players. It helps you recruit coaches. It literally brings in the money to fund your program. It is what builds and sustains success.

This is why, when you're in a 1-bid league like the MAC, nothing matters except for one week in Cleveland in March. That's a lot of pressure on a team/coach where in a 1-and-done situation - lots of randomness and crazy things outside of your control come into play - which directly impact your immediate and future success. Would you enjoy working your butt off every year at your job then having your entire raise/continued employment based on one sales pitch/meeting at the end of the year and you're relying on college interns to do the pitch for you? That's college coaching in a 1-bid league. Dambrot understands that all too well.

He just moved from the #20 league to the #7 league. He doubled his pay. He most likely increased his basketball budget by 4x. And now he's in a league where the entire season matters again because he doesn't HAVE to win the conference tournament to get into the NCAA. Where you can have a slip-up in March and not have it cost you the entire season. That has to be a sigh of relief.

So yes - that's the reality the MAC needs to face. It won't change until we start emphasizing basketball and funding it at levels comparable to other non 1-bid leagues.

Instead, we're too busy concentrating on preparing for Tuesday night football in October on ESPN 8. It is what it is.
Last Edited: 3/28/2017 9:44:52 AM by GraffZ06
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OU_Country
3/28/2017 9:40 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
I saw that on twitter last night and couldn't take it seriously. It's just the kind of crap Dambrot says.

He can't win NCAA Tournament games anyway, so the one-bid league excuse is complete garbage.
I disagree. The one bid league thing has a lot of merit. Hopefully a wake up call for the MAC. Your best coach from your best program just left for a low level A10 job. He basically doubled his pay. And, if he comes in second or third in his conference, he may still make the NCAA tourney. And, his fans will be very happy with that 2nd or 3rd finish. Meanwhile, here in the MAC message boards want to fire guys who come in 2nd or 3rd.....
I have a few thoughts in response:

Agree that the league should take the "one bid league" comment very seriously. With that come several problems with getting beyond that:

*Football. Say whatever you want, but football is an obstacle for MAC basketball in terms of finances. Akron, quite frankly, is the prime example.
*Scheduling. At one time, the 18 game conference schedule was done to help teams have fewer weak games (right?). Also there's the mandate about the number of home games. Both don't help the MAC Conference SOS, and other metrics. Both need addressed for that to get better.
*To a lesser extent, coaches pay, but I'm not sure how that compares to other, more comparable conferences. (Horizon, OVC, Colonial, etc.)
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OU_Country
3/28/2017 9:49 AM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
Yeah Dambrot is absolutely right. I'll say it again - like beating the dead horse - the ONLY thing that matters is NCAA tournament bids & wins in college basketball. It helps you gain recognition. It helps you recruit players. It helps you recruit coaches. It literally brings in the money to fund your program. It is what builds and sustains success.

This is why, when you're in a 1-bid league like the MAC, nothing matters except for one week in Cleveland in March. That's a lot of pressure on a team/coach where in a 1-and-done situation - lots of randomness and crazy things outside of your control come into play - which directly impact your immediate and future success. Would you enjoy working your butt off every year at your job then having your entire raise/continued employment based on one sales pitch/meeting at the end of the year and you're relying on college interns to do the pitch for you? That's college coaching in a 1-bid league. Dambrot understands that all too well.

He just moved from the #20 league to the #7 league. He doubled his pay. He most likely increased his basketball budget by 4x. And now he's in a league where the entire season matters again because he doesn't HAVE to win the conference tournament to get into the NCAA.

So yes - that's the reality the MAC needs to face. It won't change until we start emphasizing basketball and funding it at levels comparable to other non 1-bid leagues.

Instead, we're too busy concentrating on preparing for Tuesday night football in October on ESPN 8. It is what it is.
I hear what you're saying, but it's not the ONLY thing that matters. It is the most important until the potential for an at-large bid returns to the MAC, if it ever will. I just don't like minimizing the entire season the way you are because it does matter. It's just a different scenario than in the A-10.

On the budget, I don't think his budget is 4x. It might be double, but I'm not even sure of that. It's better, for sure. He's getting paid more, and likely his assistants are as well. The league is the big deal here to me. The league is essentially a "power" league.

And lastly, I'm with you on football and will continue to be. Sadly, football drives the bus, even in the MAC (as silly as that is). In conversations like this, I always imagine what most MAC basketball programs could do with the extra budget, as compared to what it gets done for a MAC football program.
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brucecuth
3/28/2017 9:52 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
I saw that on twitter last night and couldn't take it seriously. It's just the kind of crap Dambrot says.

He can't win NCAA Tournament games anyway, so the one-bid league excuse is complete garbage.
I disagree. The one bid league thing has a lot of merit. Hopefully a wake up call for the MAC. Your best coach from your best program just left for a low level A10 job. He basically doubled his pay. And, if he comes in second or third in his conference, he may still make the NCAA tourney. And, his fans will be very happy with that 2nd or 3rd finish. Meanwhile, here in the MAC message boards want to fire guys who come in 2nd or 3rd.....
I have a few thoughts in response:

Agree that the league should take the "one bid league" comment very seriously. With that come several problems with getting beyond that:

*Football. Say whatever you want, but football is an obstacle for MAC basketball in terms of finances. Akron, quite frankly, is the prime example.
*Scheduling. At one time, the 18 game conference schedule was done to help teams have fewer weak games (right?). Also there's the mandate about the number of home games. Both don't help the MAC Conference SOS, and other metrics. Both need addressed for that to get better.
*To a lesser extent, coaches pay, but I'm not sure how that compares to other, more comparable conferences. (Horizon, OVC, Colonial, etc.)
Could not have said it better.
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The Optimist
3/28/2017 10:29 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Have to credit Pete C. for finding this quote from Dambrot on posting to Twitter. From Elton Alexander's Plain Dealer article:

"When you're not happy after winning 26 and 27 games, you have to re-evaluate,'' Dambrot said when contacted late Monday night. "The one-bid league thing was really starting to wear on me and my staff."

http://www.cleveland.com/sports/college/index.ssf/2017/03...
I saw that on twitter last night and couldn't take it seriously. It's just the kind of crap Dambrot says.

He can't win NCAA Tournament games anyway, so the one-bid league excuse is complete garbage.
I disagree. The one bid league thing has a lot of merit. Hopefully a wake up call for the MAC. Your best coach from your best program just left for a low level A10 job. He basically doubled his pay. And, if he comes in second or third in his conference, he may still make the NCAA tourney. And, his fans will be very happy with that 2nd or 3rd finish. Meanwhile, here in the MAC message boards want to fire guys who come in 2nd or 3rd.....
I don't think Akron is the best program.

In Dambrot's tenure at Akron:
Kent has more regular season championships.
Ohio has as many NCAA Tournament appearances as Akron (3 each)
Ohio has played in double the NCAA Tournament games as Akron (6 vs 3)
Akron's margin of loss in those 3 games was 13, 13 and 42. In Ohio's lone-1st round exit during Dambrot's tenure, we lost by 5.

Outside of Dambrot's tenure:
Akron ranks 10th of 12 MAC programs in NCAA Tournament appearances with 4 (Miami leads at 17 followed by Ohio with 13)
Akron is one of three MAC programs that has never won a NCAA Tournament game (along with NIU and Buffalo)
Ohio has a larger men's basketball budget. (quantifiable)
Ohio has a larger fanbase. (quantifiable)
Ohio has better facilities. (Convo vs JAR is not quantifiable)

Coaches are paid to win tournament games. There is a very clear correlation between coaching pay and NCAA Tournament success. Dambrot likes to whine. He thinks he deserves NCAA at-large bid, but gets blown out when he gets to the tournament. Blowout loses reflect terribly on the MAC. It's absurd to blame the conference when your team's performance on the national stage has only contributed to the stigma.

I actually disagree with those on this board who don't think Dambrot will have success at Duquesne. I don't think he has to up his recruiting that much to compete in the A-10, and with the institutional support I think he will easily be able to attract the kind of players he wants. Is Duquesne OK with paying a guy 1-million dollars to get an at-large bid and then lose by double-digits in the first round? If that's what they are going for, this is a home-run hire.
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OhioStunter
3/28/2017 11:55 AM
Money can fix a lot of things, but can it really fix being a one-bid league? To me, the biggest solution is to have a team worthy of an at-large bid. If it takes money to schedule better, have better players to win and better coaches to coach, so be it. But let's have a team with a true resume to be an at-large before we complain about it.

Also, let's not go 0-11 from the MAC in NCAA Tournaments if you are not a school named Ohio.
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FlashGary
3/28/2017 12:12 PM
The MAC sadly and unfairly being a one-team entry to the Big Dance is a hard pill to swallow year and year after year after year, PARTICULARLY when your team ALWAYS has more than 20 wins and USUALLY plays in the MAC title game.
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bornacatfan
3/28/2017 4:59 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Money can fix a lot of things, but can it really fix being a one-bid league? To me, the biggest solution is to have a team worthy of an at-large bid. If it takes money to schedule better, have better players to win and better coaches to coach, so be it. But let's have a team with a true resume to be an at-large before we complain about it.

.
This

This has been my take for years. Said it in a nicer way quite a few times but here it is .... Screw the MAC, Build the team and the schedule to compete NATIONALLY and just dominate the freeking, Use the conference as a stepping stone to the Tournament. We have the campus, the fanbase and the facility. Build it. It has never been enough to just win MAC games. It is time to accept this reality and start building. Majerus, Groce and a couple of others have been to the edge of getting things in place but jumped early. It will take a Few like guy with a vision to see it through. Anyone question if the Zags were going to win the Conference Tourney this year? They have won the league regular season all but one year since the 2003 season. They decided a long time ago they did not need the league to come along for the ride.
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GraffZ06
3/28/2017 7:18 PM
We have a bingo. Well said Borna.
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OhioStunter
3/28/2017 10:55 PM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Money can fix a lot of things, but can it really fix being a one-bid league? To me, the biggest solution is to have a team worthy of an at-large bid. If it takes money to schedule better, have better players to win and better coaches to coach, so be it. But let's have a team with a true resume to be an at-large before we complain about it.

.
This

This has been my take for years. Said it in a nicer way quite a few times but here it is .... Screw the MAC, Build the team and the schedule to compete NATIONALLY and just dominate the freeking, Use the conference as a stepping stone to the Tournament. We have the campus, the fanbase and the facility. Build it. It has never been enough to just win MAC games. It is time to accept this reality and start building. Majerus, Groce and a couple of others have been to the edge of getting things in place but jumped early. It will take a Few like guy with a vision to see it through. Anyone question if the Zags were going to win the Conference Tourney this year? They have won the league regular season all but one year since the 2003 season. They decided a long time ago they did not need the league to come along for the ride.
Well, at least our football team is better than Gonzaga's.
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Ohio69
3/29/2017 9:18 AM
bornacatfan wrote:expand_more
Money can fix a lot of things, but can it really fix being a one-bid league? To me, the biggest solution is to have a team worthy of an at-large bid. If it takes money to schedule better, have better players to win and better coaches to coach, so be it. But let's have a team with a true resume to be an at-large before we complain about it.

.
This

This has been my take for years. Said it in a nicer way quite a few times but here it is .... Screw the MAC, Build the team and the schedule to compete NATIONALLY and just dominate the freeking, Use the conference as a stepping stone to the Tournament. We have the campus, the fanbase and the facility. Build it. It has never been enough to just win MAC games. It is time to accept this reality and start building. Majerus, Groce and a couple of others have been to the edge of getting things in place but jumped early. It will take a Few like guy with a vision to see it through. Anyone question if the Zags were going to win the Conference Tourney this year? They have won the league regular season all but one year since the 2003 season. They decided a long time ago they did not need the league to come along for the ride.
I assume we all agree. But I think Illinois State's coach will tell you this is easier said than done.
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bornacatfan
3/29/2017 9:45 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
I assume we all agree. But I think Illinois State's coach will tell you this is easier said than done.
Dominating the Valley like Gonzaga in the WCC would be quite a model to sustain. Creighton leaving helps but it is still the Valley. Comparing Portland, Pacific, Santa Clara to Bradley, Drake, Evansville, IN State, Loyola is not seeing the point and that is leaving out Wichita State just to keep the conversation open... The MAC is closer to the WCC than it is the Valley. If there is only one bid we can choose to figure out within that constraint, try and jump conferences or muddle along.
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OU_Country
3/29/2017 9:49 AM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Well, at least our football team is better than Gonzaga's.
And yet where are we (& the MAC) wasting resources where it's more difficult to get national exposure? Football.
Last Edited: 3/29/2017 10:54:41 AM by OU_Country
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