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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: One-and-Done May Be Coming to an End
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OUVan
6/2/2017 10:25 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/06/01/...

Union want to allow high school seniors to enter draft and NBA want to change it to 2 years.
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OhioStunter
6/2/2017 10:52 AM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2017/06/01/...

Union want to allow high school seniors to enter draft and NBA want to change it to 2 years.
I heard Adam Silver's press conference yesterday about NBA age requirements. They want it to be 20, the union wants 18. It's 19 now. Silver's position is that players who come into the league at 19 are not ready mentally or physically like players in previous drafts (older players). Plus, the foreign players who come into the league have more "pro" experience. I'd rather see players stay in school for at least two years.
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HeHateMiami
6/2/2017 10:56 AM
The NBA usually wins this argument in collective bargaining because they're talking to NBA players. The current players, who are not 18 anymore and are looking out for their veteran contracts and their paychecks. It's a negotiating chip, certainly but it's one of the first things to typically go because it likely will only negatively effect the earning power of current players who only care so much about taking care of guys who aren't even in the league yet.
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giacomo
6/2/2017 11:52 AM
How about this? If you are an NBA GM and you think an 18 year old is too young, don't draft him. Why can an 18 year old work anywhere else for someone who is willing to pay him except in the NBA or NFL?
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OUVan
6/2/2017 12:30 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
How about this? If you are an NBA GM and you think an 18 year old is too young, don't draft him. Why can an 18 year old work anywhere else for someone who is willing to pay him except in the NBA or NFL?
There are plenty of jobs that have age requirements.
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giacomo
6/2/2017 12:53 PM
Name some. It won't be MLB or NHL player. If a special skill or certification is required, then it would rule out 18 year olds. That is not the case here.

Oh, and you can join the army and fight in a war when you're 18.
Last Edited: 6/2/2017 12:55:26 PM by giacomo
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OU_Country
6/2/2017 2:41 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Name some. It won't be MLB or NHL player. If a special skill or certification is required, then it would rule out 18 year olds. That is not the case here.

Oh, and you can join the army and fight in a war when you're 18.
How about a bartender in some states? :)
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OU_Country
6/2/2017 2:43 PM
I've always felt that the ideal world in these high school, to college, to pro scenario's is how baseball handles it.

I'm happy that they've at least changed the rules on declaring to allow kids to come back to college if they don't like what they hear from scouts. I wish the NFL and football would find a way to make that work as well.
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OUVan
6/2/2017 3:03 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Name some. It won't be MLB or NHL player. If a special skill or certification is required, then it would rule out 18 year olds. That is not the case here.

Oh, and you can join the army and fight in a war when you're 18.
You can't serve alcohol in most cases under 21. Most police forces won't hire people under 21. Interstate bus operators must be at least 21. I'm sure there are a bunch more but those are the one I can think of off the top of my head.
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giacomo
6/2/2017 3:36 PM
We're talking about playing basketball. If a team wants to pay an 18 year old kid, nothing should stop them. I have not heard one strong reason for the rule.
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Ohio69
6/2/2017 5:00 PM
I'm with Giacamo on this one.

For the owners, this (like almost all things) is about money. Not ability.

They have a minor league in the D League. Let the Celtics draft Marvin Bagley III and he can learn in the D League if he can't make the roster.
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bcat22
6/2/2017 5:52 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
We're talking about playing basketball. If a team wants to pay an 18 year old kid, nothing should stop them. I have not heard one strong reason for the rule.
Owner's and teams don't want to pay 18 year olds. That's why they pushed for the age limit. From the NBA's perspective, the reasons are obvious. Extra year of development + extra year to scout, extra exposure at college level leads more marketability of players, etc.
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Mark Lembright '85
6/2/2017 7:06 PM
I have no problem with 18 or 19 year olds entering the NBA draft.

If I were an NBA GM I sure wouldn't draft one though. By the time that youngster has the requisite training and experience to thrive in the NBA, assuming they're talented enough to do so, at least 3-4 years on their 1st NBA contract will have expired. These players rarely, if ever sign their 2nd contract with the team that drafted them, so team #2 reaps the benefit of team #1's efforts to teach the player and team #1 get bupkus. Think Andrew Wiggins is re-signing with the Timberwolves? Doubtful. $5 says he signs with someone else, a higher profile team (the Lakers, Spurs) than re-sign with Minnesota. Kyrie being an exception to my prior statement.
Last Edited: 6/2/2017 7:08:18 PM by Mark Lembright '85
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giacomo
6/2/2017 7:26 PM
All true. The NBA has used the NCAA as a minor league and would like to continue. The NBA union wants to protect it's members. And the NCAA likes it, too.
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RSBobcat
6/2/2017 8:29 PM
I just like the irony of the thread name.....
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1of1st110
6/2/2017 8:43 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
I just like the irony of the thread name.....
I thought this thread would be about Akron & Drambot leaving the MAC.
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OhioStunter
6/3/2017 10:52 AM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Name some. It won't be MLB or NHL player. If a special skill or certification is required, then it would rule out 18 year olds. That is not the case here.

Oh, and you can join the army and fight in a war when you're 18.
I was going to say President, but that would completely hijack this thread in the wrong direction.
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TheBobcatBandit
6/3/2017 11:35 AM
No matter what your fears of drating an 18 year old are, I think Lebron James disproves all of them. Could you imagine the outrage had the cavs past on him.
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UpSan Bobcat
6/3/2017 12:53 PM
The younger a player is, the less you know for sure about the player is going to become. Even as it stands now with freshmen entering the draft, there are lot of guys picked who are at that time nowhere close to being able to play in the NBA, but teams have to take a risk on potential. Many times, these players would benefit from playing another year or two in college, but why do that when you get paid millions of dollars even though you're not really ready for the job you're getting?
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OUVan
6/3/2017 10:07 PM
TheBobcatBandit wrote:expand_more
No matter what your fears of drating an 18 year old are, I think Lebron James disproves all of them. Could you imagine the outrage had the cavs past on him.
LeBron is a once in a lifetime talent. If we are going to bring up one player to "prove" anything I bring up Kwame Brown. The issue isn't that some 18 year olds can't play in the NBA. The issue is that too many 18 year olds think they can play in the NBA and are wrong. And even the ones that can take two or three years to get up to speed in many cases. Even future HOFer Kobe Bryant didn't start until his 3rd season. The age limit doesn't just protect the NBA. It provides some protection for this kids that may be getting horrible advice.
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TheBobcatBandit
6/4/2017 5:38 PM
OUVan wrote:expand_more
No matter what your fears of drating an 18 year old are, I think Lebron James disproves all of them. Could you imagine the outrage had the cavs past on him.
LeBron is a once in a lifetime talent. If we are going to bring up one player to "prove" anything I bring up Kwame Brown. The issue isn't that some 18 year olds can't play in the NBA. The issue is that too many 18 year olds think they can play in the NBA and are wrong. And even the ones that can take two or three years to get up to speed in many cases. Even future HOFer Kobe Bryant didn't start until his 3rd season. The age limit doesn't just protect the NBA. It provides some protection for this kids that may be getting horrible advice.
If they aren't good enough they won't get drafted. If they aren't good enough and do get drafted, good for them. They become millionaires at the age of 18 which has gotta be an awesome feeling. I also don't see how going to college is going to give them more experience and make them a better player. They're playing less often and with less talented competition than they will play against in the NBA. If Kobe goes to college for 3 years maybe it takes another two years after he gets drafted to make an impact. The only real benefit I can see for this rule is to give these kids knowledge on how to behave themselves off the court. Outside of that, it would be better for their careers and their families if they enter the NBA right out of school. If that was someone's main concern as well I can't see why the NBA can't put programs in place to help better prepare these kids for life.
Last Edited: 6/4/2017 5:46:39 PM by TheBobcatBandit
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
6/4/2017 9:15 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
I have no problem with 18 or 19 year olds entering the NBA draft.

If I were an NBA GM I sure wouldn't draft one though. By the time that youngster has the requisite training and experience to thrive in the NBA, assuming they're talented enough to do so, at least 3-4 years on their 1st NBA contract will have expired. These players rarely, if ever sign their 2nd contract with the team that drafted them, so team #2 reaps the benefit of team #1's efforts to teach the player and team #1 get bupkus. Think Andrew Wiggins is re-signing with the Timberwolves? Doubtful. $5 says he signs with someone else, a higher profile team (the Lakers, Spurs) than re-sign with Minnesota. Kyrie being an exception to my prior statement.
When NBA rookie deals expire, players become Restricted Free Agents which means that their current team has the ability to match any offers from the rest of the league. When you draft a player in the NBA, you basically are guaranteed 7-8 years of control if you want it. It's not at all true that players rarely sign a second contract with the team that drafted them. It's actually extraordinarily rare that they don't.

Andrew Wiggins, for instance, is a restricted free agent in 2018, which means he wont be likely to become an unrestricted free agent until 2022-2023.
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Mark Lembright '85
6/4/2017 10:00 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I have no problem with 18 or 19 year olds entering the NBA draft.

If I were an NBA GM I sure wouldn't draft one though. By the time that youngster has the requisite training and experience to thrive in the NBA, assuming they're talented enough to do so, at least 3-4 years on their 1st NBA contract will have expired. These players rarely, if ever sign their 2nd contract with the team that drafted them, so team #2 reaps the benefit of team #1's efforts to teach the player and team #1 get bupkus. Think Andrew Wiggins is re-signing with the Timberwolves? Doubtful. $5 says he signs with someone else, a higher profile team (the Lakers, Spurs) than re-sign with Minnesota. Kyrie being an exception to my prior statement.
When NBA rookie deals expire, players become Restricted Free Agents which means that their current team has the ability to match any offers from the rest of the league. When you draft a player in the NBA, you basically are guaranteed 7-8 years of control if you want it. It's not at all true that players rarely sign a second contract with the team that drafted them. It's actually extraordinarily rare that they don't.

Andrew Wiggins, for instance, is a restricted free agent in 2018, which means he wont be likely to become an unrestricted free agent until 2022-2023.
Hey, hey, hey-let's not use facts here-that's just crazy! 😊

I stand corrected.

P.S. I hate the Golden State Warriors.
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5KMD
6/5/2017 12:49 PM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
I have no problem with 18 or 19 year olds entering the NBA draft.

If I were an NBA GM I sure wouldn't draft one though. By the time that youngster has the requisite training and experience to thrive in the NBA, assuming they're talented enough to do so, at least 3-4 years on their 1st NBA contract will have expired. These players rarely, if ever sign their 2nd contract with the team that drafted them, so team #2 reaps the benefit of team #1's efforts to teach the player and team #1 get bupkus. Think Andrew Wiggins is re-signing with the Timberwolves? Doubtful. $5 says he signs with someone else, a higher profile team (the Lakers, Spurs) than re-sign with Minnesota. Kyrie being an exception to my prior statement.
This is not correct. NBA players almost always sign the second contract (an extension of the first contract technically) with the team that drafted them because the financial "penalties" of not doing so are substantial. The drafting team can give more money and more years. It's actually the third contract that becomes interesting but you almost always get a good 7 years out of a draft pick, no matter how good they are.
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giacomo
6/5/2017 1:40 PM
The NBA GMs like the rule because they want more information before they draft a player. One or two years in college let them see improvement in skills and physical strength. The NBA players association is trying to protect their union brothers, so more new possible players in the draft changes things for their constituency. Marginal players might not sign their second contract. The NCAA wants the high school superstars for as long as they can have them. When you add it all up, it looks like 18 years olds won't be playing in the NBA.
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