If nothing else, I've learned in this thread that making the Sweet 16 is a program killer and an 11-7 conference record is a laudable goal. Who knew?

Call me crazy, but I don't think we have to spend more than every team in the conference to a) avoid the Sweet 16 and b) compile 11 MAC wins.

If you can not play man, and understand man principles of defense than you cannot play zone to a high level. But hey, you’ve got all the answers.

Whether one agrees with it or not, that was and now is about the going rate for a top-flight MAC coach. On the other end of the spectrum, Miami was paying John Cooper $235,000 (others may get less, but likely not much). When Ohio signed SP, Akron soon upped Dambrot's base salary to something very close.

$550,000 probably IS worth it when you're selling season tickets, putting butts in seats, winning games in March and making the NCAA Tournament at least once in the course of the contract. It looks pretty horrible when you're doing none of those things.

I didn't consider the previous two seasons to be disappointments. If the results would have been the same last year, after losing Tony in January, I would have been disappointed. But there's the reality of losing him that made last year's results....okay with me. Not exceptional, but not disappointing. This year has been a big disappointment, no question. But to say "we're Miami" is a silly to me. Yes, Miami is better this year, but I'm saying 5-6 years in a row like Ohio is this year when I say we're not less than Miami. They've been bad, until this year, for several years in a row.

Look at every year, historically, since 1985, when the tournament went to 64+ teams. Since those years, 11-7 in the MAC has been the norm, with around 19-20 wins. That's where I'd set the realistic expectation level personally.

Beyond that, I went into the Ohio Basketball record book, link below, and popped the year over year win/loss numbers since 1980 into Excel to do a quick look at history. To me, that norm, over the last 37 years (not including this year because it's not complete) is what, within a little reason, the "expectations" should be. That 37 year average is 19.23 wins, 12.72 losses overall, 10.26 wins, and 7.01 losses in conference. Six NCAA Tournament appearance since 1980. I don't argue with your ROI comments regarding his contract and the extra investment causing a little loftier expectations, but how much more is realistic?

Further average numbers by coach:

Nee: 17.8-11.2; 12-5.67 (two NCAA's in 6 years)
Hahn: 14-15; 7.33-8.67 (three seasons)
Hunter: 17-12.33; 10.25-7.25 (1 NCAA in 12 years)
TOS: 17.14-13.57; 9.29-8.14 (1 NCAA in 7 years)
Groce: 21.25-14; 8.5-7.5 (two NCAA's in 4 years)
JC: 24.5-11; 12.5-4.5 (two seasons)
Saul: 19.23-12.73; 9-9 (3 seasons - I left out this year since it's not complete)


http://static.psbin.com/0/3/6j5k96ia30mtyv/ohio_mbb_1718_...

When I say "look in the mirror", this is what I mean:

You all have jobs and careers and such. You expect perfection and championships from our coaches and teams. What about you? Are you at the top of your games? Are you the top performer at what you do every day? If somebody criticized your performance like some of the stuff I see on here, most of you would cry like a little kid who fell off their banana bike.

Yup. We've gone from a program where our starters would start on the vast majority of MAC rosters and our bench players would start on lesser MAC rosters to a lot of players (not all, but a lot) who don't even cut it in the MAC.

In a sport where only 13 scholarships are available, every recruiting whiff sets the program back, and we have more than a few.

If nothing else, I've learned in this thread that making the Sweet 16 is a program killer and an 11-7 conference record is a laudable goal. Who knew?

Call me crazy, but I don't think we have to spend more than every team in the conference to a) avoid the Sweet 16 and b) compile 11 MAC wins.