Please point out where I demanded 13 All-MAC players.

You didn't demand All-MAC players, but you did say injuries should have no effect on how the team plays. So if a team loses an All-MAC player then the next man up should just be able to slide right in, no issues to be wary of?

Sir, I'm merely pointing out what the typical year is at Ohio statistically over the prior 37 1/2 seasons of basketball. If 20-10, and 11-7 in the MAC is mediocrity, I can't help you because statistically it is not. It may not be outstanding, but it is above average. If it's a "disappointment", relative to your expectations if we go 20-10 without the MAC's best player, and fall short of the MAC title game by one possession, that's a problem for you, not the program.

I'm not in disagreement about your thoughts on salary and investment relative to the ROI this year. I don't disagree with this year being a disappointment, and anything that led to it in terms of the reliance on Jaaron, and misses in recruiting that have led to a lacking post game, etc. The flip side, of course is that we're "making excuses" when we talk about Carter and BVP being non-existent because of injuries, when the reality is that the two of them plus Gareri, in whatever combination of minutes they would have played, were going to be heavily relied upon to produce at the forward positions.

For a comparison, what do we suppose UB looks like if you take away Perkins, Massinburg, Ikenna Smart, and Montell McRae? Probably not the elite team in the conference anymore, are they? Because that's what Ohio is facing without Simmons, Carter, Vanden Plas, and Gareri for all of, or most of the season to date. Some call it an excuse, I'll call it reality. The result is the same - important players being relied upon who aren't on the floor for whatever the reason causing a team to perform below expectations.

To say that we're as bad as what Miami has been for the last 6-7 seasons, over time, is simply false. The numbers show it, and everyone that watched the MAC over the last ten years knows it. They haven't had a winning conference record since 09-10. Ohio has done that all but one year since then, with this season to likely be the second. This one year, yes, it appears we're worse than them. Yes, moving forward, as of this moment, they look better. They're very likely to be better this year at the end than Ohio is. Unless someone has a crystal ball, predicting beyond this year into next year is pretty hard to do with 18-20 year olds and their abilities.

I'm sorry if you don't like my "defense of mediocrity" when presenting stats, reality, or facts that relate to what my expectations of this program are. Some on here seem to have expectations that will likely never be met, save that one year lightning in a bottle every 6-8 years, which by the way is outside the norm. Personally, I won't complain about 11-7 in the conference and getting to the semi-finals Friday night in Cleveland two years in a row, and I'll be thrilled with anything beyond that. At the end of the season, college hoops is my fun during the winter. Winning more than we lose is fun for me as a fan, so we'll have to agree to disagree.

Read it wrong. My fault. You said "isn't."

Easy there dude, I never said that it was good enough. You simply asked which players were of a MAC level quality.

Ryan Taylor sure would look good on this team. Saul getting blindsided on that kid was a huge red flag.

I guess "agree to disagree" is right. You're OK with having the largest budget in the conference and being 11-7 on average. I'm not.

I couldn't agree more!

Honestly, all of us basketball fans were spoiled when John Groce was the coach. He had great players and his energy he brought to the team was amazing. When he left and we hired Jim. I wasn't very pleased. We kinda went away from what John was building. Don't get me wrong, Jim done a good job but he didn't quite bring the same energy. That's just my opinion. Now to Saul. I honestly don't think he has lost the team. If they have a bad year this year, you can't blame it on him because we have to look at who's playing on the court. He has 2 true freshman PG's who will be weapons. Laster's offense has finally came out and we can't say Gollon isn't gonna be what we expect because the dude just came off of 2 injuries. JC will be an asset when he's healthy. We'll be just fine. All the pieces will fall into place

Who cares what he did at FGCU. He's playing a role here.

Clemson - 10 pts, 3 rebs
Maryland - 9 pts, 3 rebs
WKU - 17 pts, 4 rebs
Ball State - 10 pts, 6 rebs

He's definitely not the home run we all wanted in a transfer, but he's doing a great job. More than they expected out of him for sure.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: that Sweet 16 run was the best worst thing to happen to this program. It was a great ride...but it also brought with it unrealistic expectations from a large portion of the fan base, got our coach a pay day somewhere else, and gets folks to look past the shortcomings of that coach's performance between November and February. Expecting tournament berths and runs in March is the exception, not the normal. In MAC basketball, it just doesn't often happen. Even at Akron under Dambrot, a run I'm sure most here would love to have, they won jack in the tournament. Most of the time they got shelled on the big stage. It's a harsh realization, but we aren't Gonzaga. We aren't VCU. We aren't Wichita State. Expecting that type of result every year is a fool's errand, in my humble opinion.

I don't know that anyone expects that. I certainly don't. But the lack of talent on this roster is glaring. Ellis Dozier may be a great kid, probably is, but a total recruiting whiff. And let's all be honest. Some of those seeing minutes are not close to D-1 talent. Gareri has no business being on the court at this level. We had no business on the same floor with Toledo in that regard.

I've read a lot about MAC tourney semi's not being good enough and tourney berths every X number of years talk. We had an awful game. Remember when that glorious group of Sweet 16ers lost at home to Winthrop without cracking 50 points? I do, I was there. Was that really not uglier than the Toledo game?