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Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: #SaulBall #Year4
Page: 4 of 4
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OU_Country
1/5/2018 12:28 PM
bshott, thanks for the laugh on the Burger King quip. One has to be of a certain age to appreciate that one. :)
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bshot44
1/5/2018 1:10 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
bshott, thanks for the laugh on the Burger King quip. One has to be of a certain age to appreciate that one. :)
HA! That is true ... getting old has it's advantages?

While I agree with OCFs remark that it takes all kinds ... I find that even the most "agitated" Bobcat fan on this forum still acknowledges the success. Begrudgingly sometimes ... but it's not ignored.

I'd say the camp that refuses to see any of the shortcomings have their heels dug in the ground much, much deeper.
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D.A.
1/5/2018 1:43 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . .I accept that fact that some folks on here will never acknowledge any of the shortcomings of either the football or basketball programs .... so be it. . . .
While this is no doubt true, it's equally as true that some folks on here will never acknowledge any of the successes of our athletic programs. Takes all types, I guess.

I see what you did there.
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allen
1/5/2018 3:57 PM
Let's hope that coach can right the ship. Some of this is out of his control and some of this is plainly on him. We have to develop our players better and we have get better talent. Let's hope that he can find some confidence in our bench players and hope that we can get hot in March. I don't know coach Saul, but I know that he wants to win, so we should not lower the bar. Go Cats
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OU_Country
1/6/2018 12:28 AM
allen wrote:expand_more
Let's hope that coach can right the ship. Some of this is out of his control and some of this is plainly on him. We have to develop our players better and we have get better talent. Let's hope that he can find some confidence in our bench players and hope that we can get hot in March. I don't know coach Saul, but I know that he wants to win, so we should not lower the bar. Go Cats

So Carter and BVP aren't good enough talent? You were "disappointed" by Tony Campbell? Laster hasn't improved enough to make you happy?
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Recovering Journalist
1/6/2018 7:38 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Let's hope that coach can right the ship. Some of this is out of his control and some of this is plainly on him. We have to develop our players better and we have get better talent. Let's hope that he can find some confidence in our bench players and hope that we can get hot in March. I don't know coach Saul, but I know that he wants to win, so we should not lower the bar. Go Cats

So Carter and BVP aren't good enough talent? You were "disappointed" by Tony Campbell? Laster hasn't improved enough to make you happy?
If you're going to cherry-pick to make your point, you need to do better than choosing a guy who showed that he could be something special for half a season, another who's yet to play a minute, a guy SP didn't recruit, and a player whose late blooming makes you wonder what could have been under different circumstances.
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Bobcat1998
1/6/2018 8:29 AM
I actually really like Saul in the recruiting realm. Laster has panned out better than I would have thought. Dartis, Block and DT have been contributors for three years and Gollon is stepping up. Kirk is an absolute find who could be playing in the MVC or Conference USA and I think next year's trio looks great (at least on film and on paper). Recruiting isn't the problem. What I see as the problem, and it's only my opinion, is that there is no system. At ND State Saul had a system with a tough and skilled big guy down low, big guys who could handle and shoot from distance and solid point guard running the show. Teams in the Big Dance were afraid to play him because his players had chemistry and were great drive-and-kick guys. Jaaron rarely drove and kicked. Kirk doesn't seem to kick. Luck has kept us from having that big guy consistently down low. Our shooters haven't appeared. Dartis..yes, but we don't have any other consistency outside. I have yet to see "SaulBall" and hope it comes to fruition soon.
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FearLeon
1/6/2018 9:49 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
You're right. Carry on. I already wasted too much time discussing this. Keep it going. It's doing wonders for things in this forum, and the support of the teams. Carry on calling for heads unless things are perfect like that magical February and March of 2012 when the stars aligned and almost everything went right. While you're at it, since you clearly believe that coaching change is needed, jump in with your wallet and become a big Bobcat Club donor to solve that problem.
OU Country - In your mind, is it possible to support a team and offer constructive criticism? That's what quite a few people on here are doing.


And the part above I mentioned, about several former frequently active users being less active because of what they believe the primary focus of the board has become, is a fact. It's a real conversation I've had with people either in person, or via social media. It's fair to say that a portion (I hope small ones) of my reactions to the negative posts with negative responses don't aid in making this a better space. I considered that last night after reading lovebobcat's post using the word "rancor" that I presumed was directed at least partly towards my post. Seems I can do better.

Others might consider how much real discussion about the game on the court, or the teams on the field that they add that is useful as well. Constructive criticism is fine. Consistently complaining about the people who make the programs run isn't good for anyone. Maybe I drink too much green koolaid and get defensive of OUr school and teams. Either way - your point is made, and fair.
My gosh, what does it say about people who leave here or stop participating because they can’t handle dialogue on a college basketball message board? There are many Bobcat fans like me commenting on a public message board, well within rules of conduct, and at times taking the opposite path of others. If a mature adult can’t handle it, well then they need to really be off the board and focus on getting through life. Maybe go to the Larry Hunter school of positive mindset or play nerf hoops with the LaFerla twins. This thread has been a healthy discussion about Saul and who we think he is 3 1/2 years in. Being over the top pie in the sky with where this program is right now is not realistic. So if you are going to say I'm always negative (which is not true), I'll point that you are always sunshine… even in a 25 point drubbing at CMU. As I read through this thread, I can see where more and more people are seeing what I'm seeing. Saul has 15 more months to fix the holes because the ship is sinking.
Last Edited: 1/6/2018 10:07:49 AM by FearLeon
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Mark Lembright '85
1/6/2018 10:00 AM
I find this entire thread interesting. I always assumed most of BA thought Solich was a classic underachieving coach who’s outlived his time at Ohio while Saul was going to take Ohio back to the big dance. I personally like both coaches and would like to see Saul have a bit more time before everyone throws him overboard.

Begs the question, which program is trending higher, football or b-ball?
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greencat
1/6/2018 10:36 AM
Football went 9-4
Hoops is 7-6

I have to go with "football is trending better" at this point.

But with the growing number of mid-majors becoming national powers in basketball, have to note that basketball should be the sport Ohio is highly achieving at. The selling points to bring in top players (aside from the 1-and-done types) are present.
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allen
1/6/2018 12:08 PM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Let's hope that coach can right the ship. Some of this is out of his control and some of this is plainly on him. We have to develop our players better and we have get better talent. Let's hope that he can find some confidence in our bench players and hope that we can get hot in March. I don't know coach Saul, but I know that he wants to win, so we should not lower the bar. Go Cats

So Carter and BVP aren't good enough talent? You were "disappointed" by Tony Campbell? Laster hasn't improved enough to make you happy?
If you're going to cherry-pick to make your point, you need to do better than choosing a guy who showed that he could be something special for half a season, another who's yet to play a minute, a guy SP didn't recruit, and a player whose late blooming makes you wonder what could have been under different circumstances.
Tony Campbell was a player from the beginning just like Carter, Campbell did get better. Block, Golllon, And Dozier have not. Dartis has been marginally better. Your starters need to continue to get better. I am not saying something that Saul wouldn’t say himself. Block is and has been staring for years, he should be a top three to five guy at his position. He has the skill level. Dartis is a deadly shooter, he needs to add to his repertoire. BVP has not played yet, he is a coaches son, he seems to have a high skill level. I hope he grows to play the four, I can’t see him guarding the three. Butler needs to play, he has to adjust to the speed of the game. The only way to do that is to play. He should not be wasting away like Laster and Culver were. Get that kid involved.
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OhioCatFan
1/6/2018 2:59 PM
Assuming he doesn't red shirt, I suspect that this kid -- 6'10" C Nathan Springs -- is going to make a big difference next year. With him and Carter in the game at the same time, I think we could control the boards against most teams. I think SaulBall is on the rise, but it's been delay a little because of the all the injuries. Have patience, grasshopper. ;-)
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allen
1/6/2018 7:20 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Assuming he doesn't red shirt, I suspect that this kid -- 6'10" C Nathan Springs -- is going to make a big difference next year. With him and Carter in the game at the same time, I think we could control the boards against most teams. I think SaulBall is on the rise, but it's been delay a little because of the all the injuries. Have patience, grasshopper. ;-)
He will just need to gain some weight. He will be a great defender.
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MonroeClassmate
2/1/2018 8:07 PM
What is SaulBall? Well, I recalled being an attendee of the Caravan in Cleveland on April 30th 2014. SP was unable to attend but his chief assistant explained a little about what to expect. This was what I typed and posted that day:

"Asst Coach Will Ryan--likes the term Saul Ball. Take care of the ball. Push when you can, not many set plays, like to run the O through the post. Thinks Campbell has lots of potential for the spot. (leads to defense collapse and kick outs to high quality threes. Did I mention, protect the ball? On D, not high pressure up the court but pack it in and take away the post/paint."

Pretty tough to run an offense through Campbell and Carter sitting on the bench.
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BillyTheCat
2/1/2018 8:29 PM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
What is SaulBall? Well, I recalled being an attendee of the Caravan in Cleveland on April 30th 2014. SP was unable to attend but his chief assistant explained a little about what to expect. This was what I typed and posted that day:

"Asst Coach Will Ryan--likes the term Saul Ball. Take care of the ball. Push when you can, not many set plays, like to run the O through the post. Thinks Campbell has lots of potential for the spot. (leads to defense collapse and kick outs to high quality threes. Did I mention, protect the ball? On D, not high pressure up the court but pack it in and take away the post/paint."

Pretty tough to run an offense through Campbell and Carter sitting on the bench.
Not sure we’ve done well protecting the rim, and Tough to run the offense through the paint when Tony and Jason were spotting up for the 3.
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LuckySparrow
2/1/2018 11:57 PM
We saw Saul Ball in years 2 and 3. It worked pretty well. Fast pace, ball movement, multiple shooters, big man down low capable of dishing it out.

I miss Tony Campbell a lot. Even as a player brought in by Christian, the Saul Ball offense fit him perfectly. Even though it was a bad season, I'll never forget the WTF moment when he started hitting threes in the first game of 2014.
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shabamon
2/2/2018 11:06 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
I really don't want to get in the territory of ragging on the recruits who end up choosing Ohio, but there is a lot of talent in 2019 that an attractive mid-major can snag, but I don't exactly see us showering it with offers.

This is Samari Curtis. He averages 29 ppg in a Division 1 conference. His best offers are UC and X. We have beaten schools like these under previous coaches for recruits. We have not offered. http://gwocsports.com/bkPlayerStats.aspx?player=445361

This is Andre Gordon. He averages 27 ppg in that same conference. His only offers are from Kent and Akron. We have not offered. http://gwocsports.com/bkPlayerStats.aspx?player=446422

This is Amari Davis. He averages 22 ppg and shoots over 60% from the field in that same conference (2019 is the year of the GWOC!). He has only three offers, and his best is probably Toledo. We have not offered. http://gwocsports.com/bkPlayerStats.aspx?player=453107

There's a 6'9'' kid at Garfield Heights named Brison Waller. Garfield is coached by our own Sonny Johnson. Garfield is also probably the best team in the state this year and next. Though he is injured now, his best offers are Pitt, Penn State, and Kansas State. Then it's a handful of peer schools. We have not offered.

I don't know what our recruiting strategy is. As you can see, I've highlighted mostly guards, and we have offered Moeller's Miles McBride who is comparable to the three here. Is our strategy to offer one kid and only move to the next when that one drops us?
We have offered Andre Gordon... in football.
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