Ohio Basketball Topic
Topic: Official Game 25 Thread: Kent St.
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FearLeon
2/15/2025 1:07 PM
FormerMember wrote:expand_more
Tough loss! However, I can see the Bobcats going on a little run these next five or six games. Only drop one game and that gives them a shot at the three seed, no worse than four seed.
With Akron, Toledo, and Miami on the schedule…you have to assume those are probably going to be three losses
You’re including Miami at home as an assumed loss when we nearly beat them without Clayton on the road?! I respect most of your posts but you’ve gone a little overboard lately with the pessimism even if some of it is deserved.

Miami at home is a toss-up. Toledo will be a tough road contest and Akron is always going to be a very hard game but assuming losses in all three is a bit much even if it does end up playing out that way.
We played one of our best games of the season without Clayton at Miami. There is nothing much that we have seen out of Clayton since he’s returned that is making this team better right now. It’s just reality. If he’s 50% now then hopefully he’s 75% come Cleveland time. I mean Boals benched him for the last 10 minutes against Kent State. The preseason Mac player of the year benched and you know what he should’ve been. It’s been discussed here numerous times how lazy he was in that game.
Last Edited: 2/15/2025 1:08:16 PM by FearLeon
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Clown Ohio Fan
2/15/2025 1:21 PM
FearLeon wrote:expand_more
Tough loss! However, I can see the Bobcats going on a little run these next five or six games. Only drop one game and that gives them a shot at the three seed, no worse than four seed.
With Akron, Toledo, and Miami on the schedule…you have to assume those are probably going to be three losses
You’re including Miami at home as an assumed loss when we nearly beat them without Clayton on the road?! I respect most of your posts but you’ve gone a little overboard lately with the pessimism even if some of it is deserved.

Miami at home is a toss-up. Toledo will be a tough road contest and Akron is always going to be a very hard game but assuming losses in all three is a bit much even if it does end up playing out that way.
We played one of our best games of the season without Clayton at Miami. There is nothing much that we have seen out of Clayton since he’s returned that is making this team better right now. It’s just reality. If he’s 50% now then hopefully he’s 75% come Cleveland time. I mean Boals benched him for the last 10 minutes against Kent State. The preseason Mac player of the year benched and you know what he should’ve been. It’s been discussed here numerous times how lazy he was in that game.
It's not that Miami won't beat Ohio, it's that you're assuming they will when the metrics all favor OU at home against them. KenPom gives the Bobcats a 56% chance of defeating Miami.

I get your logic and what you're saying. I'm not saying OU is going to win. You're just being a little presumptuous by saying we'll lose all three of those games.

Clayton has certainly been off since returning but he still has the ability to be a weapon at any given moment even when he's struggling.
Last Edited: 2/15/2025 1:21:52 PM by Clown Ohio Fan
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FearLeon
2/15/2025 1:23 PM
FormerMember wrote:expand_more
Tough loss! However, I can see the Bobcats going on a little run these next five or six games. Only drop one game and that gives them a shot at the three seed, no worse than four seed.
With Akron, Toledo, and Miami on the schedule…you have to assume those are probably going to be three losses
You’re including Miami at home as an assumed loss when we nearly beat them without Clayton on the road?! I respect most of your posts but you’ve gone a little overboard lately with the pessimism even if some of it is deserved.

Miami at home is a toss-up. Toledo will be a tough road contest and Akron is always going to be a very hard game but assuming losses in all three is a bit much even if it does end up playing out that way.
We played one of our best games of the season without Clayton at Miami. There is nothing much that we have seen out of Clayton since he’s returned that is making this team better right now. It’s just reality. If he’s 50% now then hopefully he’s 75% come Cleveland time. I mean Boals benched him for the last 10 minutes against Kent State. The preseason Mac player of the year benched and you know what he should’ve been. It’s been discussed here numerous times how lazy he was in that game.
It's not that Miami won't beat Ohio, it's that you're assuming they will when the metrics all favor OU at home against them. KenPom gives the Bobcats a 56% chance of defeating Miami.

I get your logic and what you're saying. I'm not saying OU is going to win. You're being a little presumptuous saying we'll lose all three of those games.

Clayton has certainly been off since returning but he still has the ability to be a weapon at any given moment even when he's struggling.
I totally get what you’re saying. And I did not say that we would lose all three games…I just said “probably”….thinking Miami is our best shot. I hear ya though.
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Bobcat1996
2/15/2025 7:46 PM
As I mentioned in an earlier post, get on a mini win streak and the third seed is possible. Toledo
lost today. Ohio has only Toledo on the road down the stretch. The other tough games are in Athens.
Last Edited: 2/15/2025 7:48:39 PM by Bobcat1996
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spongeBOB CATpants
2/16/2025 1:15 PM
GraffZ06 wrote:expand_more
We just don't have anybody outside of Reef that can beat their man off the dribble AND finish at the rim. The defense can expect a kick out and it was glaring last night.
I agree with all of your post except the above. We actually have 2 others who CAN even if they don't do it often.

AJ Brown and Elijah Elliott.

It's why I'm high on the idea of Elliott at PG next year, even if he hasn't blown the doors off statistically as a fr yet. He has great size for a PG. Great quickness. Can handle the ball. Can put in on the deck and get by people. And he's PLENTY athletic enough to finish around the rim.

What he lacks is assists (I think that comes with time and maturity) and outside shooting (which is why he would ideally be paired with a really good 3pt shooter at the 2 along with Brown at the 3).

AJ Brown, could be so much more than a catch and shoot 3pt guy who scores 12 a night. You saw flashes when Clayton was out and we basically had no other options. Multiple times he drove baseline and either got to the rim or got fouled (87% FT shooter, he should be trying to get there 10 times a night). And at 6'4 with decent hops and long arms he can elevate inside even if he isn't all that strong.

I think if you let Elliott break ppl down with the dribble and finish or kick to shooters (SG + Brown + Hadaway). Combined with a big who can post up and create easy buckets or post-post passes with Hadaway, or draw defense and kick to shooters. Then add AJB being "the man" and both driving and shooting. That becomes such a more balanced and intimidating offense that can do it all.

This year is a lot of drive and get stuffed/tied up/stripped in the paint or just launch 3s and hope.

Reef may be the only guy on this years team with the skills and guts to try and carry us come March. I think Jeff knows it too and it might be part of the reason Clayton is slightly less motivated/thrilled/engaged recently.
I probably should've added "consistently" finishes at the rim. Like you said, we see flashes from other guys but nobody that we can count on when we absolutely need a bucket.

AJB needs to do more. I've said it in other threads, when he contributes in other aspects he changes the game drastically. When he sits in the corner he does us no good really. Yes he'll hit the occasional 3 but we struggle to get those going on a consistent basis.
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Andrew Ruck
2/17/2025 9:13 AM
The no-call on Pavs did not look like a foul to me, and how Boals did not get a technical is a mystery. They gave us a gift with a great chance with 2.5 seconds on the clock down 2 and we treated it like we had 0.4 seconds on the clock down 3.

Another toss up game that we just don't find a way to win. Frustrating. I still can't believe we are 13-12. Rare to shoot well from 3 and lose. 22 points in the first 6.5 minutes was nice. 53 in the final 33.5 was not. Rebounding was the biggest fault for the loss, and sitting Clayton definitely contributed to that failure. AJC definitely had a couple stupid turnovers but barely playing down the stretch was a dumb call by coach.
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Cats5
2/17/2025 9:34 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
The no-call on Pavs did not look like a foul to me, and how Boals did not get a technical is a mystery. They gave us a gift with a great chance with 2.5 seconds on the clock down 2 and we treated it like we had 0.4 seconds on the clock down 3.

Another toss up game that we just don't find a way to win. Frustrating. I still can't believe we are 13-12. Rare to shoot well from 3 and lose. 22 points in the first 6.5 minutes was nice. 53 in the final 33.5 was not. Rebounding was the biggest fault for the loss, and sitting Clayton definitely contributed to that failure. AJC definitely had a couple stupid turnovers but barely playing down the stretch was a dumb call by coach.
I gotta disagree with the take on AJC. He has contributed very little in recent games to be labeled our best player. He had more turnovers than rebounds against Kent. On the bench is where he belonged. Putting Evans on the floor would be on my mind now if I were Boals. Run a two big lineup. I think a Searls and AJC lineup wouldn't be bad and plug Ayden in with whoever needs a breather.
Last Edited: 2/17/2025 9:34:33 AM by Cats5
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Andrew Ruck
2/17/2025 1:24 PM
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
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SBH
2/17/2025 2:25 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
Problem is he's not a leader.
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FearLeon
2/17/2025 2:30 PM
Cats5 wrote:expand_more
The no-call on Pavs did not look like a foul to me, and how Boals did not get a technical is a mystery. They gave us a gift with a great chance with 2.5 seconds on the clock down 2 and we treated it like we had 0.4 seconds on the clock down 3.

Another toss up game that we just don't find a way to win. Frustrating. I still can't believe we are 13-12. Rare to shoot well from 3 and lose. 22 points in the first 6.5 minutes was nice. 53 in the final 33.5 was not. Rebounding was the biggest fault for the loss, and sitting Clayton definitely contributed to that failure. AJC definitely had a couple stupid turnovers but barely playing down the stretch was a dumb call by coach.
I gotta disagree with the take on AJC. He has contributed very little in recent games to be labeled our best player. He had more turnovers than rebounds against Kent. On the bench is where he belonged. Putting Evans on the floor would be on my mind now if I were Boals. Run a two big lineup. I think a Searls and AJC lineup wouldn't be bad and plug Ayden in with whoever needs a breather.
The AJC season has been one of disappointment and frustration. I know he's hurt, but I think we are going to look back on this four year stretch and think how much better things could have been for this program if he would have been willing to do more things offensively inside 21 feet.
Last Edited: 2/17/2025 2:32:30 PM by FearLeon
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FearLeon
2/17/2025 2:31 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
Problem is he's not a leader.
Nailed it. Not once did you see Clayton in the last 10 minutes go to Boals and say Coach...I get it...you made your point...I'm ready now...put me in. He didn't look like he truly wanted to be on the court. And then for Boals to bring him in and shoot a 3 with 15 seconds left was criminal.
Last Edited: 2/17/2025 7:59:40 PM by FearLeon
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Andrew Ruck
2/17/2025 2:34 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
Problem is he's not a leader.
Maybe not, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be on the court. Maybe there are personalities on the roster better fit to be that leader. But I think many of you fail to see the ways AJC leads.

And to go whine to your coach in the middle of a game to be put back in the game would be ridiculous. That might be a move to make after the game, but I have to imagine any player that walks up to coach Boals and asks to be put in the game would get his head bitten off.
Last Edited: 2/17/2025 2:36:28 PM by Andrew Ruck
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Cats5
2/17/2025 8:28 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
I think we got off on the wrong foot here. I’m not saying you said he’s the best player on the team. That was a general statement. I agree with 1, some of 2 and 4. I wasn’t saying sit Clayton for Evans all the time. I mentioned running a two big lineup with AJC and Searls but plugging in Evans some too. I don’t think he wants to be in the paint all too often. He had plenty of chances to cut to the rim against App State but decided to stand outside. He’s just not showing the on court leadership that we’ve seen from the veterans in the past. Maybe having a true big down low with Searls will open the offense some for AJC. But for now, I just don’t see much upside with him on the floor. Hopefully things will change in the next couple games.
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SBH
2/18/2025 10:12 AM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Well first of all, I didn't label him our best player. But the idea that we want to try to win basketball games with Evans instead of Clayton is preposterous and shows the insane fickle nature of fandom. Sure he had a couple bad passes and missed a couple shots. Here are some other facts:

1 - He is the best shot blocker in the conference and generally plays pretty solid defense.
2 - He is a solid rebounder, positioning himself and reading the rim well on both ends of the court.
3 - He has always had an extremely high 2 point % with good touch around the rim.
4 - He is an excellent free throw shooter.
5 - He is our veteran leader that knows the system and team well.

Given the state of our front court, that doesn't sound like a guy you bench because he made a bad pass. I've consistently called for AJC to get more time in the paint and more selective 3 point shooting. I think he is a better big than he and his coach think he is, and we need him as that more than ever.
Problem is he's not a leader.
Maybe not, that doesn't mean he shouldn't be on the court. Maybe there are personalities on the roster better fit to be that leader. But I think many of you fail to see the ways AJC leads.

And to go whine to your coach in the middle of a game to be put back in the game would be ridiculous. That might be a move to make after the game, but I have to imagine any player that walks up to coach Boals and asks to be put in the game would get his head bitten off.
Boals has told people that this is the first team he's had with no leader in the locker room or on the court.
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