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Ohio Volleyball Topic
Topic: Ugh
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JSF
11/27/2012 3:53 PM
Ohio State seeded in the tournament.
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brucecuth
11/27/2012 9:14 PM
yep, and playing the same Notre Dame team our girls beat last week...
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Bobcat Booster
11/28/2012 9:06 AM
Once again, thank you "alleged" NCAA Volleyball Committee for making a mockery of this year's national tournament ... for the 2nd year in a row.  Maybe we should change the name to the NCAA RPI Invitational.  The Bobcats went to the national tourney 8 years in a row ... made a quality showing most years ... and two deserving teams left out in consecutive years.  Yes, I am still bitter ... Ohio has been overlooked twice and while a "power conference" university will surely win again, eg. Penn St, etc., the Bobcats have deserved better and their tournament resume has been comparable to many of the at-large teams.  Go Bobcats!
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JSF
11/28/2012 9:27 AM
While I love our team as much as anyone, I didn't think we deserved to be in.
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Bobcat Booster
11/28/2012 12:10 PM
We will agree to disagree ... we all know if the Cats had won the MAC tourney they would have qualified ... we get that.  3 wins in 3 days is never going to be easy -- enough said about that.

I will close by reminding you that the Cats had the lowest MAC RPI this year, won the regular season title outright, beat 3 NCAA tourney teams and competed well (early) against multiple national powers -- with obvious improvement down the stretch.  Admittedly, I don't think the MAC was down much compared to the '11 season ... although the RPI shows otherwise.

If (yes, if) the Cats had closed/finished at North Carolina (won two sets 25-16, lost in 5) they would likely have ridden that road win to the NCAA tournament ... a September match mind you.  That remains my biggest issue -- the committees obvious lack of review re: end of season play, vs pre-conference matches ... and the potential to gather RPI "lift" for an entire season, which we witnessed last year in the MAC (Northern Illinois, Ball St and Western Mich ... all 1st round NCAA losers).

Done.
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JSF
11/28/2012 12:52 PM
I don't think end of season is as important as you do.
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Radar
11/28/2012 1:26 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
I don't think end of season is as important as you do.


I've got Dragon's back on this one.

The ND win, while good, was a case of too little, too late.

The lack of early-season, quality non-conference wins likely sealed our destiny.  The route to the NCAA was to win the MAC tournament.  We didn't have a strong case for an at large bid.

Now if any of our MAC opponents had quality non-conference wins, that no doubt would have shown up in the RPI as well (and would have helped us). 

For any MAC school to bank on an at large bid, without quality non-conference wins, is pipe dreams.

Forward.  The young team now knows what it will take next year, and should be better prepared for it.

Let's go CATS!!
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Bobcat Booster
11/29/2012 2:39 PM
Okay, more.

A final comment ...

From an RPI perspective, the Cats were likely the last team "out" last year and similarly positioned this year.  That said, no one suggested they should play for an at-large NCAA tourney bid, nor do they.

Where your logic fails (re: at-large) is end of season play.  Specifically, solely reflecting on the MAC, both Ball St and Western Mich "stumbled" down the stretch last year (both had losing records over their final 5 matches) and ended up playing poorly against top-caliber teams in the NCAA tournament.  Ball St?  An 8 seed in the MAC tourney this year ... and swept by OU twice (essentially the same team).

If the goal is to put on a tournament with the best teams (full body of work), why would a win in a "silly" tournament in Aug/Sept really matter.  Again, going back to ND, they beat Kansas early and rode that win (plus a home win over L'ville) to a near-40 RPI ... yet lost 3 straight to end their season -- including a loss to a non-qualifier in OU.  Therefore, their development appears flawed.  But a "sexy" pick by the committee, vs Ohio.

Missouri Valley Conference with 3 entries?  No way.  I watched their championship match and the runner-up did not play well ... and Northern Iowa (a committee "darling") played poorly down the stretch.

The Ohio program has been solid for 10+ years ... and I refuse to believe the '11 and/or '12 team did not deserve at-large bids.  RPI aside, both teams played well enough to "play-on" in late Nov./Dec.  Heck, last year the Cats beat the Big East champ (see ND this year ... a trend?) in their final match ... on the road (a top 20 RPI) no less -- and the "W" seemed to be discounted.  This year ND assumedly needed a "W" to fortify their at-large entry -- and the Cats beat them.  Illogical that they "back" in in that manner.

The future is bright!  Go Cats!
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OhioCatFan
1/13/2013 10:50 AM
Don't know much about VB, but I find it interesting that in basketball the selection committee always puts more emphasis on late season "quality wins" than those that come earlier in the season.  In fact, MAC teams have been denied at-large berths on the basis that their quality wins came early and some other team was hot down the stretch.  I don't understand why the same logic doesn't apply in VB.  
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Radar
1/13/2013 7:47 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Don't know much about VB, but I find it interesting that in basketball the selection committee always puts more emphasis on late season "quality wins" than those that come earlier in the season.  In fact, MAC teams have been denied at-large berths on the basis that their quality wins came early and some other team was hot down the stretch.  I don't understand why the same logic doesn't apply in VB.  


Not really that big of a mystery, OCF.  The overwhelming majority of non-conference games (and this goes for both basketball and volleyball) are played early in the season.  The common denominator between Ohio Volleyball and Ohio Basketball is the MAC.  When you're playing primarily, if not exclusively, MAC games, where would a late-season "quality" win come from, given the lack of national respect the MAC has?  They would have to come from out of conference -- which would mean the MAC scheduling would need to permit it, and you'd have to hope that a traditionally higher RPI team would be available to play...

I would agree that it doesn't allow a MAC team that gets hot at the end of the season to earn their way in -- and playing the tough teams early in the season before the team really gels and gets in rhythm presents a challenge -- but that's our lot right now.  The win over Notre Dame was just a case of too little, too late...
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OhioCatFan
1/20/2013 11:54 PM
I understand what you are saying, Radar, but if the Ohio Men's BBall team had beaten a team of the quality of the UND VB team at the end of the season a few years ago, we'd probably have gotten an at large birth in the NCAA rather than a invite to the collegeinsider.com tourney.  It would have been a shocking upset and would have had all the talking heads talking their heads off.  Back in the day, Ohio did used to play some quality ouf-of-conference teams in February and March.  That seems to hardly even happen any more.  I think the MAC should re-think its scheduling philosophy with this in mind, but that's another topic for another forum.
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JSF
1/21/2013 3:05 PM
You've overrating that win.
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