Eh, I'm really just giving him a hard time. I just find it funny how folks who take such pride in contrarianism and think it's representative of critical thinking all just ultimately appeal to a different expert.

In this case, cbus is just appealing to Alex Berenson's expertise. His biggest credential seems to be, as cbus sees it, that he's a liberal and therefore it'll be harder for liberals to argue with what he says. Which is exactly how intellectually honest people approach the presentation of an argument; not on the merit of the argument itself, but rather on how opponents will respond to it. Also, of course, Alex Berenson's book -- which argues that marijuana usage leads to violence -- was roundly criticized for how he cherry picked data to support his argument and for it's lack of scientific rigor. It also rested entirely on a report by the National Academies that he misinterpreted. He claimed the report declared that marijuana usage increases the liklihood of psychosis. In fact, the report didn't draw that conclusion and left open several other possibilities, while noting that there are many examples of societies where marijuana usage has grown while incidences of schizophrenia have not. The suggested it was just as likely that people with psychosis are more likely to self-medicate with marijuana, and that the relationship actually moves exactly opposite to how Berenson interpreted the study. Berenson's book mentions none of this.

I actually recall cbus doing this exact thing in another thread where we was insisting that global warming is a "socialist hoax" and repeated an oft-cited but completely made up quote from Mikhail Gorbachev saying such. In that thread, he kept appealing to a liberal scientist who actually does believe that global warming's real, but just didn't think it was as urgent as some of her peers. And that was the authority cbus appealed to in order to prove that global warming is a hoax.

Just a different expert. But same bow.

Alan, I think those cases are related to the new criteria, especially with a big increase in prisons (located in Marion and Circleville.) Ohio is doing well. Glad to see our friend Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame is engaging in some critical thinking by checking out Alex Berenson. BTW what happened to our thread from last night? I thought we were having a very heartfelt and civil exchange talking people we knew who were having a hard time in NYC. Then kaboom it disappeared when I checked it out today. Unless the moderators had some crank come in after I went to bed, I wonder what in the world would cause it to disappear into Area 51?

BTW, some good news it seems the President and the Corona Virus Task Force's meeting with sports league CEO's has resulted in the PGA putting out a tentative schedule and other leagues working on getting a schedule as well. The PGA will start in June and I believe the Memorial Tournament scheduled for mid July in Columbus will be the first one where fans will be allowed. The President made mention that large stadiums like Alabama's should be sold out opening day with no need for any social distancing at that point.

cbus cat fan,

I'm interested, honestly, what you think of this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/04/16/coronav...

Do you think it is fake?

That website doesn't exist. A google offshoot called Verily built something similar. However, it only operates in parts of California and a part of Pennsylvania.

I mean, the virus in New York City isn't any different than the virus in other states. It's hit New York so hard precisely because social distancing is so difficult there, given the density. Re-opening in a manner that pushes for a full return to normal -- packed college football stadiums, a golf tournament in a few months, feels extreme. Is there anybody that thinks our testing is where it need to be?

I mean, I totally get the push to re-open amongst the cbus's of the world who think this was overblown and don't believe Covid is a significant risk. But for the rest of us, doesn't May 1 feel pretty arbitrary?

That said, Trump's "re-opening" plan just passed the buck to the states. So I suspect we'll see most of them ignore the 5/1 directive.

Hard to keep up with all the studies coming out, but another study of hydroxyquinone was released that was negative. It improved symptoms, but didn't help with clearing of the virus. Meanwhile, a positive study of remdesivier, a patented drug, came out of Chicago. Of 125 patients, mostly with severe conditions, only two died, and most have been released.

Ivermectic, an anti-parasite drug used to treat head lice, has also shown promise, they analyzed 1970 patients from 169 hospitals on 6 continents, and of those 18.3% died. Of those 1970 patients, 52 of them had been given ivermectin after mechanical ventilation was started. Only 7.7% of them died. The average stay for those with Ivermectin was 10.9 days versus 15.7 days for the average. The time in ICU was 6.0 days versus 8.2 days. Ivermectin has in the past shown broad anti microbal and anti-viral properties.

As the medical industry around the world tries every drug in their playbook, and more studies come out, hopefully we will see increasing improvement in clinical results, and a decline in the death rate. If we are going to open economy, we not only need to see improved testing, and ability to track cases, we need improvements to the care of those who do get it.

Meanwhile, on the negative side, there are indications that SARS-COV2 attacks more organs than just lungs. The ACE2 receptor is all through the body, and in many organs. One organ that is attacked is the kidneys. 14-30% of patients New York ICUs have lost kidney function, and require dialysis or continuous renal replacement therapy. New York has called for volunteers from other states to come assist with this overwhelming load.

There is also indication that it attacks the heart and liver. It is too early to know what portion of the patients will experience longer lasting damage to their organs, and what percentage will return to normal.

The Ohio numbers of confirmed cases continue to spike - up 619 today. Here are the last seven days starting seven days ago - 349, 331, 363, 272, 475, 611, 619. I really thought when we had that 272 number after 7 days of relative stability, that we were heading over the hump. The last three days certainly counter that.

Alan, I watched Dr. Acton and the Governor assure everyone what I said yesterday was true with regard to more tests are coming back from prisons as well as increased testing, so this is not an upsurge.

On a general note, Alan and some others have generally been rational with their positions, as much as I disagree with them and have stated so using data, I enjoy those discussion. However, some have not and their condescension and out right antipathy to those of us who come from salt of the earth backgrounds and hold traditional views about faith and family tell us a lot about what some of you really think about us.

This is why so many people who lean conservative on this site have given up these debates. When we hear small business owners, waitresses, bartenders, hair stylists, who have let their voices be heard concerning their job losses etc they are mocked and called anti-science loons by some on this site. It sends those of us who grew up in working class families and small towns, a chill up our spine.

Just so you know, almost everyone I knew growing up was a Democrat, including everyone in my family. Yet, many of them are now not because they feel they have had their professions mocked, faith demeaned etc.

We have seen Democratic presidents claim we cling to their guns and religion, as if that was a bad thing. We have seen the Empire State Building lit up to celebrate 3rd trimester abortions being legalized in New York, so much for talking about science when it tells you a child is alive right before birth. Yet, you commemorate the child's death with a celebration, so please spare us your science quotes, you use it without even knowing what it means.

Donald Trump was 16th of the 16 candidates on my list in the GOP primary when he ran, but when he won I and many others supported him because someone was finally speaking with for the voiceless, the people who aren't part of elite.

You might want to think about this when you wonder where all the conservative voices once went with regard to these discussions, so go ahead and insult others and put some posts from left wing website to make yourself fell good, but you might want to remember all of this when you lose another election.

Here's some more data for you to ponder.
https://twitter.com/LisaMarieBoothe/status/12511751436546...

Ohio is up "only" 6.2% a day for the last week. In late March it was 25% a day, and by early April 15% a day. Getting from 6% to a consistent 2-3% a day will most likely take a couple of weeks, based on other countries.

Nebraska was making nice progress, too, but got partially derailed by meat packing plants in Hall County. Those are "essential", so even in a hard lockdown, they would have been open. It seems the virus travels a long way, and spreads readily in the cold, dry air inside meat packing plants. Since I worked in one as a teen, I can tell you that they are are kept just over freezing, and the workers in there work hard, so they are breathing deeply. It's not just Nebraska or South Dakota. Meat packing plants all over the country have had issues with Covid spread.

To stay at home or not to stay at home:

The bump in coronavirus cases is most pronounced in states without stay at home orders. Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike.

Come on LC, a man of numbers like yourself, must realize that percentages will be higher when your baseline number is lower hence the lower percentages as time goes on. The point is, the last three days have seen a significant spike in confirmed cases.

Alan,
What happens after a person is tested as negative? Is that it, or will they have to be re-tested? How often?

In some ways we are moving toward herd immunity, which isn't a bad thing at all. I believe the Governor said something about a dorm in one of the state prisons found of 135 who tested positive, 40% had never had so much as a sniffle. Who knows how many of us in January or February having what we thought was a cold or flu actually had the virus. I am reposting the link from my last post from Stanford. I believe this is from northern California and the serology tests were 30x 50x times higher than previously thought, which means hospitalization and death rates are at normal season flu levels.
https://twitter.com/LisaMarieBoothe/status/12511751436546...