The Constitution only apply to government employment. Privat companies can fire you if they think that you represented them in a negative light especially in at will states and where there is no union. However, no government official can punish or coerce others to punish people who using their first amendment right, so it is very unusual that a sitting president would try to push for protesters that broke no law to get fired, especially a hard right republican. Lawyers will bring complaints against Trump because of it, but so far he has not coerced anyone. I don't think anybody brought up legality because most logical peopl know that he was throwing red meat to his racist base. We have a few supporters here that would support anything that he does and they are 3 out of the 100 Trump supporters with college degrees. They are valiant in their efforts to support this nonsense. They will use made up friends and made up supreme court opinions to support their narrative, but the Supreme Court actually upheld flag burning, so we should probably get rid of lens sees what the protesters are doing as something that is illegal. I am one of the three supporters, we are united. We already spoke amongst one another and said that we would say we supported Dr. King's protest that advocated for equality and some facets of socialism. We all have at least one black person that we say hi to or exchange pleasantries with at games, sometimes I cross my fingers so it really doesn't count.

I don't see myself insisting that in either case; In both cases, I was attempting to make the point that divisive comments by the media towards people in Middle America are often made with racism being used as an end all be all "your a racist so your opinion is irrelevant." Racism is/was/has been a problem but the media has exacerbated the situation.

...

I can't think of many better explanation for Donald Trump's success in the Rust Belt as "backlash against Globalism." Across the board, the statistics are clear that globalism is a success. For all the negative news you hear, compare poverty levels, death rates from war, disease, global per capita gdp. It's all massively up like no time in history. But it's not the "everyone wins" scenario that was painted for so long... There are economic "losers" in globalism and they've made in pretty clear that the welfare state isn't an acceptable replacement for a way to make a living for yourself.

It's amazing to me so many people fail to see this, because it isn't an issue specific to the United States. The Rust Belt flipping from voting Blue for Barack Obama to voting for Donald Trump is an extreme example but the underlying story of globalism is very similar situation to the Brexit. In Spain, you've got Catalonia voting on a referendum to break off from the rest of the country. There are plenty of examples on smaller scales.

RP, you know I like you even though you and I often (usually) disagree. But I have to point out that all of your arguments seem to be nothing more than vague appeals to authority.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/appeal-to-authority

I believe that you have friends who are law enforcement officers (after all, you do live in Jersey) and I do believe that you have a friend who practices Constitutional Law. But I'm not sure why that matters in this conversation. Almost all of us here know at least one law enforcement officer and at least one lawyer (and many of us, I'd imagine, know a few of the constitutional variety). But just because they express an opinion doesn't make it valid. I could find law enforcement officers (and indeed I know some--dammit see I did it too!) that disagree. Also, I think your point about the first amendment was made earlier in the thread when it was pointed out that no player is breaking an NFL policy and the owners actually support them.

I'll leave you with the greatest appeal to authority. One I know you can relate to. The ever-wise Mr. Bruce Springsteen:

41 shots, and we'll take that ride
Across this bloody river to the other side
41 shots, they cut through the night
You're kneeling over his body in the vestibule
Praying for his life

Is it a gun?
Is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
This is your life
It ain't no secret (it ain't no secret)
It ain't no secret (it ain't no secret)
Ain't no secret my friend
You can get killed just for living in your American skin

41 shots, Lena gets her son ready for school
She says, "On these streets, Charles
You've got to understand the rules
If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite
And that you'll never ever run away
Promise Mama you'll keep your hands in sight"

Is it a gun?
is it a knife?
Is it a wallet?
This is your life
It ain't no secret (it ain't no secret)
It ain't no secret (it ain't no secret)
No secret my friend
You can get killed just for living in your American skin

41 shots, Lena gets her son ready for school
She says, "On these streets, Charles
You've got to understand the rules
If an officer stops you, promise me you'll always be polite
And that you'll never ever run away
Promise Mama you'll keep your hands in sight"

Sadly, this is a conversation African-American parents feel is of uppermost importance to have with their son(s), regardless of their profession, economic status or where they live in America. Potentially, a life-or-death defining discussion.

I feel somewhat guilty as a white male with a son that it isn't as necessary to have this talk with my son.

Yup - unfortunately we have some police no better prepared, trained, or mentally or emotionally equipped to be a police officer than some scribe involved in a media hype piece.

Yes the officers were acquitted - as was Michael Brelo in Cleveland - but then he and his buds only put 137 shots into a car while he stood on the hood and fired over, and over, and over. How could that possible be unjustified. They were hyped up on adrenaline - makes me understand why they opened fire on Tamir Rice in 2 seconds upon arrival to a playground.

But in the meantime - dammit - "stand the F up while we have the flag and sing the national anthem. Don't you have any respect for this country? After all we pledge to the flag" - you know "with liberty and justice for all."

We don't live up to it, but is is catchy don't you think. We should put it on a bumper sticker - or maybe a red hat.

"This is our flag. Our country we are talking about here. Our heritage. They just don't respect it. If you can't stand up for the national anthem why don't you you just leave."

/\/\/\/\\//\

Winner, winner, chicken dinner - There you have it - party, party, party. Who can win an election.

You...us - party has replaced color as the great divider.

It's about living up to our constitution - a pledge we make as a country to our people. Too bad we don't live up to it and too bad the Constitution and it's soul is no longer the great uniter or even a concern for some.

"Justice for all" God what a great concept. Too bad it is just a slogan to so many people.

And I understand your concern that you don't get people to a table and start a conversation by insulting the person. You also don't start by turning a blind eye to injustices. Our people. Our citizens are more important than our symbols and totems. And by the way, the table is round.

Another question for all. What happens this Saturday or next, or over the winter when an Ohio athlete takes a knee. It will happen folks.

And I hope it does because one would think that on a college campus we would have a much better chance of having an intelligent and productive conversation and perhaps some action than we do in the general population.

I think what gets lost is that Kaepernick sought out a way to protest the flag without dishonoring soldiers and vets. It's too bad that he went to a green beret instead of cc cat and rp, he went to a real patriot. Someone who doesn't just posture, but engages our enemies in close combat, so that we are free to kneel or stand. We don't have to jail the elderly or people in wheel chairs for not standing, we are not North Korea or Russia, wait we do have a Russian twist, forgive me I forgot about that. Kaepernick also donated money made donations to veterans just like a bunch of other patriotic Americans that kneeled. I am sure that cc and to do much more than them though, the truth is we are annoyed because our leaders pull our strings. We wear the mask that grin and lies, lol. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/h... /

Right. Justice for all is simply not understood by we moronic conservatives. Isn't that what you mean when you toss around snark like that? That people like me are dunderheaded racist fools with barely enough IQ to manage our own aspiration.

You're right. It's just a slogan to me. Or, maybe you'll claim that I'm one of the scant percentage of conservatives who--maybe--understands nuance, but the vast majority are dammed fools, clinging to their guns and religion.

Spare me your lectures. The problem with this and so many issues, is neither side will concede any ground. Here, you want me to start? Police brutality is a real thing. Police officers, at times, behave well beyond the pale. People have died and been seriously injured as a result. In communities where this takes place, people should ask for and demand better police training and behavior.

I get it. But don't try to brow beat me into submission by shitting on my country's traditions. You're a he-man crusader, right? Next time you show up for your kid's football game, and the anthem is played, leave your hat on, fold your arms and take a knee. Do it in as central an area as possible. It's for the cause, right? If you piss off a few conservative old people, to hell with 'em.

I attempted to enter this discussion and keep it civil. I get tired of being labeled with BS and continually accused of being thick headed.

Maybe try to reason without the snark and come to the understanding that if you're going to win a debate, you're going to have to attempt to find common ground.

This is actually a pretty good start, to be honest. We should start with paragraph three next time.

Indeed an excellent start - completely agree. We also need independent investigations and prosecutors in all cases involving a police shooting or assault since local DAs are often politically motivated and must work hand in hand with the police - so they are put in difficult situations.

We also need to get the police back on the street - yes walking a beat. Separation leads to suspicion. The more people know their local officer, the better the relationship. We need better officers which means better pay. Like teachers, we pay the police an embarrassing salary and then ask them to do an impossible and comprehensive job - officer, marriage councelor, social worker. Let's take some of the money assigned to building up the ammo and use it to expand the force and raise the pay.

I never called or implied you as a racist - but this (the reason for protest) is a racial issue and therefore the protest and the discussions will always have racial overtones and implications (and the President knows this) - so we must all be careful in the dialogue. (As I stated earlier, I don't feel race is the great divider, party is).

I never said I would take a knee, only that I support ones right to - and absolutely support their reasoning. And when the guy in front of me at the Panther game last Sunday (against the Saints) who I have shared Sunday's with for over 10 years sat in prayer last Sunday, I put my hand on his shoulder. Not to make a statement and not to piss off anyone (conservatives or otherwise), but to show this person I understand and support him. I know you understand his pain, and I'm sure would show support in your own way. And perhaps surprising, there was not an uproar in our section (section 545 Row 15). Perhaps he being in prayer made a difference.

(personally I think that will he part of the resolution. someone can kneel in prayer during the anthem - to offer prayer for OUR country, our leaders and our people).


Yes, we must start with common ground. with discussion. At the least the current demonstrations have created dialogue - at times heated. And at the end, we must all leave party and elections and perhaps even dome traditions aside and look for progress. Fifty years ago LBJ and others did, I'm not sure our politicians of today will, but the people will. As always we are better than our politicians, better than parties, better than our fringe yellers

(per the fringe, we just passed the 1-year anniversary of the Charlotte "riots" really not much rioting. Those arrested were mostly from out of town - in for the festivities. Once they left, we had peaceful protests the next few nights and dialogue. Same was true in Charlottesville. Most of the tiki trash were from out of state -- well out of state in many cases. We as a society need to tune out the Rush/Hannity/Sharpton/Jackson/tiki leaders, etc. and stay true to our hearts and souls, not the barkers).