No offense man, but the author of a book called "Liberalism, Or How to Turn Good Men into Whiners" is not going to bring an interesting or different perspective to the discussion.

That was, truly, gibberish. That people here believe that garbage is truly sad. His argument is basically that the Democratic party tricks black people into anti-American sentiment to push their Marxist agenda.

Meanwhile, the DNC nominated a Presidential candidate who was roundly criticized for her close ties to Wall Street. That hotbed of Marxism.

After reading all 126 posts, media reports from FoxNews, MSNBC, and ESPN, plus countless FB posts, the discussion seems to boil down to one thing - how one sees the playing of the national anthem and flag raising/display at NFL games - its purpose.

So the questions are, why do we have this ceremony before our sporting events and what is its purpose?

God, you're pretentious.

What else is there that we all agree upon?
Kumbaya: Too religious
WWonderful World: Too Louis Armstrong

Respectful questions - how does the anthem with it's racist third verse and the flag represent who we are as a nation? And if a flag represents who we are, what does that say about those who fly the Confederate flag or their respective state flag but not the American flag? Who are we as a nation? This is the type of civics discussion I hope they are having in schools all across America today.

And, yet, another point of view. Perhaps, the real problem is the National Anthem itself. Do we need a new, more inclusive song to represent our common national goals and aspirations? That Woodrow Wilson lead the charge to make the Star Spangled Banner our national anthem does make the song problematic. Here's a link to an interesting column from Ebony magazine about this issue. Aside from the gratuitous mention of "Juneteenth," I found it quite interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/y83rdkdr

[On Juneteenth: This is a celebration of the Emancipation Proclamation that has great relevance to Texas, but has gained popularity in recent years in other parts of the country. It has caused more than a little consternation in Ohio, because down in Gallia County we have the oldest continuous celebration of the EP. The first Gallia County celebration was on Sept. 22 1863 -- the first anniversary of the preliminary EP. The calls for celebrating Juneteenth as some kind of official holiday in Ohio got so strong that the Ohio General Assembly felt required to pass a law several years ago declaring September 22 as Emancipation Day in Ohio.]

This has been an interesting chat. I try to stay out of political discussions (though sometimes I can't resist) not because I don't see value in civil discourse, but because we are so unlikely to convince people to change, no matter the facts or the way we present them. This cartoon does a great job of explaining why that is:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

See this is the problem with having civil discourse with you. I brought up a scientific fact: Our memories play tricks on us and we often remember things differently than they happened, especially things that happened a long time ago. Your response to that is not to engage in a discussion about that fact and its relevance to this thread. No, your response is to call me pretentious.

I have had lots of disagreements with folks here. Many of them I respect and I value the perspective they bring to the table. All I get from you is name calling.

If you questioned my memory like you just did to OhioCatFan, I would have said much nastier things than Robert Fox did. Just because he is conservative, I don't think you have any right to question his childhood memories.

Thanks for taking me on a deep dive into the history of the poem by Mr. Key. I think a fantastic protest would be for a black musician or poet to recite the entire poem/song before a game. I think that would enlighten many to the truth behind the national anthem.

Mr. OCF, I'm guessing you've read "The Meaning of July Fourth for the Negro" by Frederick Douglass. I recently read it after hearing about it in a podcast (I believe 'Constitutional' by Lillian Cunningham, quite interesting on American history and the Constitution).

Mr. Douglass, in his speech, stated, "But such is not the state of the case (that he could celebrate July 4th). I say it with a sad sense of the disparity between us. I am not included within the pale of this glorious anniversary! Your high independence only reveals the immeasurable distance between us. The blessings in which you, this day, rejoice, are not enjoyed in common. The rich inheritance of justice, liberty, prosperity, and independence, bequeathed by your fathers, is shared by you, not by me. The sunlight that brought light and healing to you, has brought stripes and death to me. This Fourth July is yours, not mine. You may rejoice, I must mourn."

I think that's interesting (as is the entire article, written at a time where I'm surprised his words didn't get him killed). I'm not claiming that today's black community is oppressed in a similar way, but their struggle has been far more pronounced than that of nearly every other group. To expect that everybody view this country the same way seems rather arrogant.

To assume that we have the anthem to validate our shared ideals is also interesting. What are those values? Did you know 40% of millenials in a poll want to limit offensive speech (http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/20/40-of-mil... /)? MOre than a third of Americans support having a national religion (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/06/christianity-sta... ). Less than half of Republicans believe in the importance of a free press (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/322065-p... ). And I'm pretty sure the debates of the last six months show the resistance to have the freedom to peaceably assemble, like to peaceably assemble on a football field. These are our First Amendment rights. If Americans cannot even agree on whether we should have these rights, the first ones designated by our great forefathers, then what are the shared values?

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

The same words that are in the Japanese Constitution? Or, do you mean the ones from Ho Chi Minh's Proclamation of Independence for Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proclamation_of_Independenc... )?

These are not inherently American rights, they are basically the rights of a civilized nation anywhere on this planet. Look at how often these words are co-opted by many nations, including France, Canada, Germany. So what makes these the rights, or as you say, values, that should require standing for the national anthem of America?

Bump.