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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: National enrollment cliff
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Recovering Journalist
11/28/2022 10:26 AM
Interesting demographic piece, with the Midwest set to get hit hard by an ongoing decline in enrollment.

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23428166/college-enroll...
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TWT
11/28/2022 2:00 PM
The state of Ohio is already feeling it. Community college enrollment has tanked and the 4 year universities are in a very competitive environment for students. OU's answer to all of this appears to be the $200 million dollar investment in the dorms, going over the top with ADA accessibility. My view isn't shared by the administration but the university I think could do well chasing private school amenities and community outreach experiences.
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Alan Swank
11/28/2022 9:22 PM
This group paints a slightly different picture. Regardless, If an institution has something to sell and works hard to do it, they can grow even when times are supposedly tough.

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/12/15/more-high-...
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SBH
11/29/2022 10:18 AM
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
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OhioCatFan
11/29/2022 10:48 AM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
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OUPride
11/29/2022 11:15 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
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OhioCatFan
11/29/2022 11:30 AM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
I think State Senator Oliver Ocasek opposed Rhodes plan, and that is why it failed. This merger plan was all over the newspapers and TV media in the state for several weeks and then it faded, never to be heard of again.
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TWT
11/29/2022 8:10 PM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
OSU's classes were 6k until 10 years ago not counting all the transferring in from branch campuses. OU is capping their dorm capacity at 7,400 beds and a target freshman class of 4,000. Class was over 10% higher this year but they'll pocket the room and board from he extra students I guess.

The divide in the public system is becoming where OSU, Miami, UC, OU and Kent are landing the better prepared and richer suburban kids while Toledo, Akron, Cleveland St, Wright St, Youngstown St are drawing mostly from less resourced districts. To an extent it was always like that but its become more so with the trends of the past 30 years.

Most recently the in-state classes of Miami, OU, OSU, UC were all around 3.7 on the GPA. Miami and OSU are getting boosted up more by the out-of-state pipelines. If they lose that they'll drop significantly in the USWNR rankings.
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cbus cat fan
12/5/2022 10:52 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
I think State Senator Oliver Ocasek opposed Rhodes plan, and that is why it failed. This merger plan was all over the newspapers and TV media in the state for several weeks and then it faded, never to be heard of again.
Once again our old friend Ohio Cat Fan proffers some sage advice and wisdom. I can only imagine that in the late 1950s-1960s it seemed as if the sky was the limit for Ohio colleges. However, the economic downturn and rust belt moniker which arrived in the late 1970s, put an end to that utopian dream. Akron's numbers are just crazy bad. It seems even if the community college upturn has peaked. I can't even fathom what the picture will look like in 2040. Those small public and private campusus that offered a unique identity, along with internships and proven job possibilities fare the best. Large schools that could do this like UC also proved to be a winner.

While, not in the same sinking boat as Akron, we don't seem to have offered our own identity and vision. A neighborhood parent voiced the frustration to me (knowing I am an alum) that her daughter isn't getting near the internship opporitnites as is her neighbor's daughter who is attending UC. It doesn't help matters that she has had three adivisors in three years, one of which only liked to meet on zoom because she is still leary of crowds. I know plenty of parents who are very happy with their children's expreience in Athens, but it seems UC parents rave about their's. My kids aren't college age yet, so I will get a better feel in a few years. I am certainly scared of one thing, another big shot to the gut like the economic downturn in 2008-09 and or the pandemic meltdown of the last couple of years. We can't afford anything like this in the state of Ohio. We are already facing a demographic winter, even with out these possible scenarios.
Last Edited: 12/5/2022 10:52:45 PM by cbus cat fan
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IceCat76
12/6/2022 10:10 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
I think State Senator Oliver Ocasek opposed Rhodes plan, and that is why it failed. This merger plan was all over the newspapers and TV media in the state for several weeks and then it faded, never to be heard of again.
Once again our old friend Ohio Cat Fan proffers some sage advice and wisdom. I can only imagine that in the late 1950s-1960s it seemed as if the sky was the limit for Ohio colleges. However, the economic downturn and rust belt moniker which arrived in the late 1970s, put an end to that utopian dream. Akron's numbers are just crazy bad. It seems even if the community college upturn has peaked. I can't even fathom what the picture will look like in 2040. Those small public and private campusus that offered a unique identity, along with internships and proven job possibilities fare the best. Large schools that could do this like UC also proved to be a winner.

While, not in the same sinking boat as Akron, we don't seem to have offered our own identity and vision. A neighborhood parent voiced the frustration to me (knowing I am an alum) that her daughter isn't getting near the internship opporitnites as is her neighbor's daughter who is attending UC. It doesn't help matters that she has had three adivisors in three years, one of which only liked to meet on zoom because she is still leary of crowds. I know plenty of parents who are very happy with their children's expreience in Athens, but it seems UC parents rave about their's. My kids aren't college age yet, so I will get a better feel in a few years. I am certainly scared of one thing, another big shot to the gut like the economic downturn in 2008-09 and or the pandemic meltdown of the last couple of years. We can't afford anything like this in the state of Ohio. We are already facing a demographic winter, even with out these possible scenarios.

UC will always have an advantage over OU when it comes to internships. Athens doesn't have P&G or GE Aerospace locally. I worked for GE for nearly 30 years and every semester we had hordes of UC interns.
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TWT
12/6/2022 7:55 PM
IceCat76 wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
I think State Senator Oliver Ocasek opposed Rhodes plan, and that is why it failed. This merger plan was all over the newspapers and TV media in the state for several weeks and then it faded, never to be heard of again.
Once again our old friend Ohio Cat Fan proffers some sage advice and wisdom. I can only imagine that in the late 1950s-1960s it seemed as if the sky was the limit for Ohio colleges. However, the economic downturn and rust belt moniker which arrived in the late 1970s, put an end to that utopian dream. Akron's numbers are just crazy bad. It seems even if the community college upturn has peaked. I can't even fathom what the picture will look like in 2040. Those small public and private campusus that offered a unique identity, along with internships and proven job possibilities fare the best. Large schools that could do this like UC also proved to be a winner.

While, not in the same sinking boat as Akron, we don't seem to have offered our own identity and vision. A neighborhood parent voiced the frustration to me (knowing I am an alum) that her daughter isn't getting near the internship opporitnites as is her neighbor's daughter who is attending UC. It doesn't help matters that she has had three adivisors in three years, one of which only liked to meet on zoom because she is still leary of crowds. I know plenty of parents who are very happy with their children's expreience in Athens, but it seems UC parents rave about their's. My kids aren't college age yet, so I will get a better feel in a few years. I am certainly scared of one thing, another big shot to the gut like the economic downturn in 2008-09 and or the pandemic meltdown of the last couple of years. We can't afford anything like this in the state of Ohio. We are already facing a demographic winter, even with out these possible scenarios.

UC will always have an advantage over OU when it comes to internships. Athens doesn't have P&G or GE Aerospace locally. I worked for GE for nearly 30 years and every semester we had hordes of UC interns.
Cincinnati requires an internship as part of its 5 year engineering program. If you have it with the company while in engineering school it gives you good money and is almost a guaranteed offer unless the economy craters the spring you graduate. The pay is good, I remember students returning to Athens with cars the internship paid for. When I'm saying good around 20-30 dollars an hour compared to making 10 hour at a bar over the summer. Once they start after graduation some of the companies will put them on 2 year job rotations to see other parts of the business and help them with their MBAs. Ultimately a lot of them will end up in operations or sales but they want somebody with an engineering degree appropriate for their industry to explain the concepts.

The saying at Virginia Tech is engineering school is business school so its the way to go if you want to get into manufacturing, energy or construction. To be taken seriously in tech you need to have a computer science or computer engineering degree. If you want the potential to rise to the C level. Want to win research grants you need to be a PhD or work together with one.

What I'm saying is these kids who take the internships understand the path it can take them on generally and covet them.
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BillyTheCat
12/6/2022 8:49 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Akron had more than 30,000 students in 2011. Enrollment is currently 14,900. Don't see how they can survive this trajectory as a standalone institution.
Time to institute the Rhodes Plan, with a slight modification. Rhodes wanted to merge KSU and UA as equal institutions with a new name. It was something like the University of Northeast Ohio. Now, UA should just become the urban campus of Kent State University. This new institution would be too big for the MAC, and would probably join the B12 or ACC. Right, BTC?
Interesting, I've never heard that. I always understood that Rhodes wanted as many four-year universities as possible--one within 50 miles of every Ohio resident. It would seem--since UT and UA were essentially bankrupt when they merged into the system--that Rhodes could have forced such a merger had he wished. I wonder if Millett was the driving force then for keeping them separate, and since everything he did seemed to be for the benefit of Miami, I'd be interested in how this played into that.

As for the decline in enrollments, I've said it before: have the state cap Ohio State's freshman classes to 6K. The state will need to give them something in return, but you get at least a thousand pretty well qualified students for the other schools to recruit.
I think State Senator Oliver Ocasek opposed Rhodes plan, and that is why it failed. This merger plan was all over the newspapers and TV media in the state for several weeks and then it faded, never to be heard of again.
Once again our old friend Ohio Cat Fan proffers some sage advice and wisdom. I can only imagine that in the late 1950s-1960s it seemed as if the sky was the limit for Ohio colleges. However, the economic downturn and rust belt moniker which arrived in the late 1970s, put an end to that utopian dream. Akron's numbers are just crazy bad. It seems even if the community college upturn has peaked. I can't even fathom what the picture will look like in 2040. Those small public and private campusus that offered a unique identity, along with internships and proven job possibilities fare the best. Large schools that could do this like UC also proved to be a winner.

While, not in the same sinking boat as Akron, we don't seem to have offered our own identity and vision. A neighborhood parent voiced the frustration to me (knowing I am an alum) that her daughter isn't getting near the internship opporitnites as is her neighbor's daughter who is attending UC. It doesn't help matters that she has had three adivisors in three years, one of which only liked to meet on zoom because she is still leary of crowds. I know plenty of parents who are very happy with their children's expreience in Athens, but it seems UC parents rave about their's. My kids aren't college age yet, so I will get a better feel in a few years. I am certainly scared of one thing, another big shot to the gut like the economic downturn in 2008-09 and or the pandemic meltdown of the last couple of years. We can't afford anything like this in the state of Ohio. We are already facing a demographic winter, even with out these possible scenarios.
I would agree that the OHIO leadership, local leadership and the politicians of the region have failed to capitalize on the resources that the University could have been built on and provided. Especially now that we have elevated our research status.
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TWT
12/6/2022 9:46 PM
OU has the same problem that it has in sports where it doesn't pay enough to bring in the elite faculty. The last salary plan put in place before the pandemic was to align OU's salary structure in a way that it stays within the Top 3 of the state, behind OSU and in the ballpark of Cincinnati. Believe it or not the University was pumping out more federally funded research dollars 20 years ago than what it is today and I think its a direct result of the impact money has made in academia though more subtle than college athletics.

The core problem is the state should have made a two tier system that is designated a higher percentage of the state share of instruction so those in the 1st tier grouping can pay nationally competitive salaries for research faculty. Virginia and Virginia Tech receive a ton more money from the state than Old Dominion and James Madison by rule. In Ohio its done by the amount of in-state graduates with a bonus for PhD programs and medical schools.

https://highered.ohio.gov/educators/budget-financial/oper...

Its a flat formula that is enrollment dependent. Akron is down 8.4% from 2023 compared to the 2022 state instruction share because of enrollment. Leaving state funding to the marketplace of student choice instead of designating research schools. They should have made a deal long ago to designate OSU and the four corner schools research universities with an additional cut of state money.
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OUPride
12/7/2022 10:27 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
Its a flat formula that is enrollment dependent. Akron is down 8.4% from 2023 compared to the 2022 state instruction share because of enrollment. Leaving state funding to the marketplace of student choice instead of designating research schools. They should have made a deal long ago to designate OSU and the four corner schools research universities with an additional cut of state money.
Prior to Jim Rhodes the state had two higher education appropriation bills. One for OSU, and another for the "four corners." That all changed in the 60s, and Ohio and Vern Alden were one of the driving forces behind it. Remember that everything seemed to revolve around cutting OSU off at the knees and making all the system schools equals (except that Millett then manipulated Miami into being the only selective campus). Should it have changed? Yes. Should it have changed in the way that it did? Probably not.

I do believe that there should be separate funding for different campuses. I don't think it's politically realistic to think that OSU ever agrees to be lumped in with Ohio-KSU-BGSU-Miami. That does nothing for them, so they'd just push to maintain the status quo. Giving them back their separate funding model though would be something significant enough to get them to cap their freshman enrollment though and maybe make some additional concessions to the rest of the system.

Also, when we're talking about enrollment, I think it's criminal malpractice for another Ohio public (even delusional Miami) to have a tuition rate higher than OSU. Given the gap in rankings and admissions profile, the optics of it are just terrible for potential students and parents. Miami, I guess, can get away with it because they'd rather have a kid from the Chicago suburbs, but Ohio doesn't really have that luxury at this time.
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TWT
12/7/2022 11:21 AM
OUPride wrote:expand_more
Its a flat formula that is enrollment dependent. Akron is down 8.4% from 2023 compared to the 2022 state instruction share because of enrollment. Leaving state funding to the marketplace of student choice instead of designating research schools. They should have made a deal long ago to designate OSU and the four corner schools research universities with an additional cut of state money.
Prior to Jim Rhodes the state had two higher education appropriation bills. One for OSU, and another for the "four corners." That all changed in the 60s, and Ohio and Vern Alden were one of the driving forces behind it. Remember that everything seemed to revolve around cutting OSU off at the knees and making all the system schools equals (except that Millett then manipulated Miami into being the only selective campus). Should it have changed? Yes. Should it have changed in the way that it did? Probably not.

I do believe that there should be separate funding for different campuses. I don't think it's politically realistic to think that OSU ever agrees to be lumped in with Ohio-KSU-BGSU-Miami. That does nothing for them, so they'd just push to maintain the status quo. Giving them back their separate funding model though would be something significant enough to get them to cap their freshman enrollment though and maybe make some additional concessions to the rest of the system.

Also, when we're talking about enrollment, I think it's criminal malpractice for another Ohio public (even delusional Miami) to have a tuition rate higher than OSU. Given the gap in rankings and admissions profile, the optics of it are just terrible for potential students and parents. Miami, I guess, can get away with it because they'd rather have a kid from the Chicago suburbs, but Ohio doesn't really have that luxury at this time.
The history of this is certainly important to understand. If that Rhodes era compromise included a 20% bonus for OSU and the 4 corner schools to support faculty pay as a deal for brining in the city schools to the system that would have accelerated the academic standing of OSU and the 4 corners while keeping upstarts like UC in there place. This was not of course the deal and the funding formula outside of the PhD and Medical set asides was based around campus square footage which naturally tilted toward OSU at a time they were stuck with open enrollment but encouraged the over build up of campuses such as Akron.

Miami's latest student numbers when I checked are 55% out-of-state. I don't understand how that is allowable. They've also started an on campus nursing program. That is another aspect about the state university system (state assisted system) there is no regulation as to what programs they can start. You are probably right they shouldn't be able to price above OSU as a state assisted college.

The question then is what can OU do given the state formula and given what its already allocating toward such as finishing out the STEM buildings and dorm plan? Offer more student experiences like community service projects where OU would pay the transportation for. Run regular shuttles on the weekends to the Hocking Hills and other regional parks. Have professional chefs design an exquisite dining hall menu. Include the student fees in the tuition. Could OU charge somewhat higher but discount deeper like Miami presenting more of a private college experience?
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OhioCatFan
12/7/2022 6:17 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
Its a flat formula that is enrollment dependent. Akron is down 8.4% from 2023 compared to the 2022 state instruction share because of enrollment. Leaving state funding to the marketplace of student choice instead of designating research schools. They should have made a deal long ago to designate OSU and the four corner schools research universities with an additional cut of state money.
Prior to Jim Rhodes the state had two higher education appropriation bills. One for OSU, and another for the "four corners." That all changed in the 60s, and Ohio and Vern Alden were one of the driving forces behind it. Remember that everything seemed to revolve around cutting OSU off at the knees and making all the system schools equals (except that Millett then manipulated Miami into being the only selective campus). Should it have changed? Yes. Should it have changed in the way that it did? Probably not.

I do believe that there should be separate funding for different campuses. I don't think it's politically realistic to think that OSU ever agrees to be lumped in with Ohio-KSU-BGSU-Miami. That does nothing for them, so they'd just push to maintain the status quo. Giving them back their separate funding model though would be something significant enough to get them to cap their freshman enrollment though and maybe make some additional concessions to the rest of the system.

Also, when we're talking about enrollment, I think it's criminal malpractice for another Ohio public (even delusional Miami) to have a tuition rate higher than OSU. Given the gap in rankings and admissions profile, the optics of it are just terrible for potential students and parents. Miami, I guess, can get away with it because they'd rather have a kid from the Chicago suburbs, but Ohio doesn't really have that luxury at this time.
The history of this is certainly important to understand. If that Rhodes era compromise included a 20% bonus for OSU and the 4 corner schools to support faculty pay as a deal for brining in the city schools to the system that would have accelerated the academic standing of OSU and the 4 corners while keeping upstarts like UC in there place. This was not of course the deal and the funding formula outside of the PhD and Medical set asides was based around campus square footage which naturally tilted toward OSU at a time they were stuck with open enrollment but encouraged the over build up of campuses such as Akron.

Miami's latest student numbers when I checked are 55% out-of-state. I don't understand how that is allowable. They've also started an on campus nursing program. That is another aspect about the state university system (state assisted system) there is no regulation as to what programs they can start. You are probably right they shouldn't be able to price above OSU as a state assisted college.

The question then is what can OU do given the state formula and given what its already allocating toward such as finishing out the STEM buildings and dorm plan? Offer more student experiences like community service projects where OU would pay the transportation for. Run regular shuttles on the weekends to the Hocking Hills and other regional parks. Have professional chefs design an exquisite dining hall menu. Include the student fees in the tuition. Could OU charge somewhat higher but discount deeper like Miami presenting more of a private college experience?
Just a matter of terminology. Ohio University receives three separate line items from the state higher education budget: 1. General Operations, 2. Regional Campuses, 3. Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine. These funds cannot be co-mingled. However, there can be payments from the medical school or the regional campuses back into the general fund to pay for such things as building maintenance, custodial staff, heating and cooling and other specific services provided by the university to these two subordinate entities.
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OUPride
12/8/2022 2:55 PM
I have no idea why Miami is allowed to have that level of out of state enrollment. They would argue that those students aren't subsidized by the state, but that's not entirely accurate. They don't get an enrollment subsidy from the state, but they make use of the physical land and buildings that generations of Ohioans have built up through tax dollars.
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RSBobcat
12/8/2022 6:14 PM
Promos and exposure like this should help. Very well done. Available on Amazon Prime series and YouTube..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C86mmS5nWfQ
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Alan Swank
12/10/2022 8:39 PM
Probably not a popular post among the research oriented folks, but at the undergraduate level I want professors with a PhD who can engage and teach. Professors who meet with students each semester to plan their course path toward a four year graduation and hold them accountable to semester to semester improvement. In all seriousness, how many times can you research the first battle of Bull Run/Manassas? Northerners on a picnic got their ass kicked and high tailed it back to DC and an inexperienced "rebel" force failed to close the deal.
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TWT
12/14/2022 11:43 PM
RSBobcat wrote:expand_more
Promos and exposure like this should help. Very well done. Available on Amazon Prime series and YouTube..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C86mmS5nWfQ
I'm not a fan of that one with the slick Hollywood host as much as this new one detailing food services on campuses. If I heard correctly from the video OU is down to two dining halls (Nelson, Boyd) but they are open from morning until dinner. Baker has a food court and new bakery to serve as a quasi dining center for campus. Markets serve as grocery stores on campus.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sheuK_uKpG4
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Recovering Journalist
2/8/2023 1:31 PM
I was perusing the NIU message board and saw a long thread on severely declining enrollment there. It got me wondering how the rest of the MAC is faring.

This piece on Michigan schools details a drop in enrollment of 10k-15k for each MAC member there in the last 20 years, and predicts worse to come:
https://www.mlive.com/business/2022/10/michigans-public-u...

Ball State is down around 5k from its peak.

And in Ohio, we all know Akron's dire struggles. Toledo is not faring much better. BG, Miami and Ohio are kinda holding their own.

Buffalo is doing , but as the state flagship and an AAU member they're a MAC outlier in many regards.

The overall picture for the conference is not good, and makes we wonder how much longer something like fee-driven sports will be viable (or at least competitive) for many of its members.
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Alan Swank
2/8/2023 8:07 PM
Hardly a cliff:

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d16/tables/dt16_219.2...
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Kevin Finnegan
2/9/2023 2:15 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Interesting chart, but am I missing something? This just shows the HS graduates within an area, not enrollment into college, right? I think the question is, are students choosing not to go to a four-year college any longer? These numbers here don't seem to tell us one way or another.
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Alan Swank
2/9/2023 6:42 PM
Kevin Finnegan wrote:expand_more
Hardly a cliff:

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d16/tables/dt16_219.2...
Interesting chart, but am I missing something? This just shows the HS graduates within an area, not enrollment into college, right? I think the question is, are students choosing not to go to a four-year college any longer? These numbers here don't seem to tell us one way or another.
Correct. What you often hear from college administrators is that fewer kids are graduating from high school therefore there are fewer kids who can potentially enroll. My point was simply that this is not as dire a situation as they often make it out to be.

That said, admissions is a sales contest. Fewer potential enrollees simply means you need to do a better job of selling.
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