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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Proposal to change Wayne National Forest to Buckeye National Forest
Page: 1 of 2
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TWT
8/28/2023 11:13 AM
Quote:expand_more
After the war, he served in Congress and had a private business. President George Washington recalled Wayne from civilian life to command U.S. forces in the Northwest Indian War, where he defeated the Northwestern Confederacy, an alliance of several Native American tribes. His scorched earth campaign of destroying villages resulted in the ethnic cleansing of Native Americans in the Ohio Valley.

The current forest name is offensive because of this history of violence.

Buckeye National Forest is one of the names suggested to the Forest Service by American Indian Tribes. Other proposed names considered include “Ohio National Forest” and “Koteewa National Forest.”

“Our intention is to listen to Tribal Nations and community members, and take the actions needed to better serve them,” said Forest Supervisor Lee Stewart. “The new name embraces the forest’s identity as Ohio’s only national forest and the welcoming, inclusive nature of the people of Ohio.”

The Agency is seeking local perspectives on the proposed name as it reflects the historical importance of the national forest to Ohio. A 15-day public engagement period beginning Monday will allow interested members of the public to share their thoughts. Feedback should indicate whether there are any reasons the proposed name would be unacceptable. Comments may be submitted to r9_wayne_website@usda.gov . The Forest Service will review public input and make a recommendation to the Secretary of Agriculture, who has the authority to change the name.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/wayne-national-forest-pro...
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JSF
8/28/2023 3:21 PM
Buckeye and Ohio suck. Name it Shawnee or Adena or whathaveyou.
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person
Alan Swank
8/28/2023 7:57 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Buckeye and Ohio suck. Name it Shawnee or Adena or whathaveyou.
City council is considering sending a letter of comment/resolution on this and in our conversation last week, pretty much said the same thing about Buckeye with a very small bit of support for Ohio (the English spelling of the Indian word for the river). I mentioned it should be tribal in nature since that's the main reason for changing it from Wayne is his treatment of the native peoples at the time. One other idea came up recently and that is PawPaw, a native fruit of this area.

When you say Buckeye the first thing that comes to mind for many if not most people is t0$u and perhaps their football team. Bad name for a national forest.
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TWT
8/28/2023 10:10 PM
Naming a park after a tree is usually tied to an exclusive location for that tree such as Joshua Tree National Park or Sequoia National Park. Buckeye tree range doesn't cover all of SE Ohio and primarly extends westward to the lower midwest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_glabra

Pawpaw more so but that one has a very large overall range so its not as if the area encompassing the current Wayne is an exclusive location for them. But the pawpaw is the state fruit since 2009 and the Ohio pawpaw festival is held in Albany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asimina_triloba

Ohio national forest wouldn't be a bad choice since the national forest is close to the Ohio river. Adena can work with a burial mound in The Plains. Hocking National Forest as Hocking is a native tribe term is workable though only one section of the Wayne is along the river. I had no idea it was named after Anthony Wayne since he's known for the battle of fallen timbers up near Toledo and never would have guessed it was the same Wayne.
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OhioCatFan
8/28/2023 11:00 PM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Buckeye and Ohio suck. Name it Shawnee or Adena or whathaveyou.
I agree. And, along those lines, what about Tecumseh National Forest?
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JSF
8/28/2023 11:07 PM
Tecumseh is good. Probably won't happen because he fought against the colonists, Union generals and other sites named after indigenous warriors notwithstanding. Would Hopewell make sense? It's close to the site.

Please keep us abreast, Alan. I'm interested.
Last Edited: 8/28/2023 11:07:50 PM by JSF
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person
Ohio69
8/29/2023 9:11 AM
Can't decide if this is a solution looking for a problem here or pure genius in co-opting TOSU's mascot....
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OhioCatFan
8/29/2023 11:03 AM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
Can't decide if this is a solution looking for a problem here or pure genius in co-opting TOSU's mascot...
Ohio was known as the Buckeye State way before Olentangy Tech was gleam in the eye of the General Assembly. As in par for the course in Cowtown they didn't come up with anything original, they just stole the nickname of the state and appropriated it for their own use.
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Alan Swank
8/29/2023 11:24 AM
Now one of our two US Senators and the Ohio House Speaker have weighed in.

https://www.irontontribune.com/2023/08/28/stephens-vance-... .”
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Andrew Ruck
8/29/2023 11:57 AM
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
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yamaha45701
8/29/2023 12:18 PM
There is a movement to banish the name Hopewell from Archeology. Why, he looted dozens of mounds with no regard for the burials within, was a confederate who was reported to own slaves, believed the mounds were built by a tribe of Israelites because Native Americans (NA) could not have built such elaborate structures. I could go on but to name a tribe of Native Americans after a guy who was self-serving and could not care less about the NA is causing people to reexamine things. Plus the blurring of the Adena and "Hopewell" culture is really mixed and now many are saying they are one and the same, just a refinement in the more recent past. I am part of the group working to preserve the mounds in The Plains and am in contact with others in the state and beyond who want to see the historical past corrected, not buried by a conquering culture.
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OUPride
8/29/2023 12:24 PM
Just because we named things after genocidal mass murderers in the past doesn't mean we can't learn from our mistakes. There's no reason to continue the process. After all, this is a country that for decades taught children about the Little Bighorn "Massacre" and the "Battle" of Wounded Knee before correcting that nonsense. It's time to correct the nonsense of having that forest named after Wayne.
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TWT
8/29/2023 1:35 PM
Andrew Ruck wrote:expand_more
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.
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OhioCatFan
8/29/2023 1:43 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.
Not at all? There are Buckeye trees all over the area, but not one in Ironton District of WNF? Strange. There is a big grove of Buckeye trees across the Hocking River from Frost, Ohio. Though I haven't really paid attention recently, there used to be a rather large one on THE Ohio University's Main Green.
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TWT
8/29/2023 1:49 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.
Not at all? There are Buckeye trees all over the area, but not one in Ironton District of WNF? Strange. There is a big grove of Buckeye trees across the Hocking River from Frost, Ohio. Though I haven't really paid attention recently, there used to be a rather large one on THE Ohio University's Main Green.
This map says Ironton is out of range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_glabra#/media/File...
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OhioCatFan
8/29/2023 3:08 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.
Not at all? There are Buckeye trees all over the area, but not one in Ironton District of WNF? Strange. There is a big grove of Buckeye trees across the Hocking River from Frost, Ohio. Though I haven't really paid attention recently, there used to be a rather large one on THE Ohio University's Main Green.
This map says Ironton is out of range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_glabra#/media/File...
If I'm reading that map right, it says Athens is out of range, too. And, I know that to be false. Don't believe everything you see on the interwebs! <ha-ha
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TWT
8/29/2023 3:51 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Changing the name at all = Stupid.

Changing it to Buckeye = Really stupid. Where would Buckeye Tree rank on the list of tree species found in the Wayne National Forest? About 157th?
They don't grow at all in the Ironton District of the Wayne National Forest which is about 40% of the park acreage.
Not at all? There are Buckeye trees all over the area, but not one in Ironton District of WNF? Strange. There is a big grove of Buckeye trees across the Hocking River from Frost, Ohio. Though I haven't really paid attention recently, there used to be a rather large one on THE Ohio University's Main Green.
This map says Ironton is out of range.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_glabra#/media/File...
If I'm reading that map right, it says Athens is out of range, too. And, I know that to be false. Don't believe everything you see on the interwebs! <ha-ha
This one includes Athens County but leaves out the majority of Ironton district.

https://www.ngaflora.com/Trees/Aesculus%20glabra/Aesculus...
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TWT
8/29/2023 3:57 PM
Yellow Buckeye is in Southern Ohio and West Virginia so that could be what OCF has noticed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesculus_flava
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JSF
8/29/2023 9:05 PM
yamaha45701 wrote:expand_more
There is a movement to banish the name Hopewell from Archeology. Why, he looted dozens of mounds with no regard for the burials within, was a confederate who was reported to own slaves, believed the mounds were built by a tribe of Israelites because Native Americans (NA) could not have built such elaborate structures. I could go on but to name a tribe of Native Americans after a guy who was self-serving and could not care less about the NA is causing people to reexamine things. Plus the blurring of the Adena and "Hopewell" culture is really mixed and now many are saying they are one and the same, just a refinement in the more recent past. I am part of the group working to preserve the mounds in The Plains and am in contact with others in the state and beyond who want to see the historical past corrected, not buried by a conquering culture.
I didn't know this! Thanks.
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greencat
8/30/2023 7:04 PM
yamaha45701 wrote:expand_more
There is a movement to banish the name Hopewell from Archeology. Why, he looted dozens of mounds with no regard for the burials within, was a confederate who was reported to own slaves, believed the mounds were built by a tribe of Israelites because Native Americans (NA) could not have built such elaborate structures. I could go on but to name a tribe of Native Americans after a guy who was self-serving and could not care less about the NA is causing people to reexamine things. Plus the blurring of the Adena and "Hopewell" culture is really mixed and now many are saying they are one and the same, just a refinement in the more recent past. I am part of the group working to preserve the mounds in The Plains and am in contact with others in the state and beyond who want to see the historical past corrected, not buried by a conquering culture.
As long as a majority to do the right thing is not changed from 51% to 60%

I would love to see the name "Andrew Jackson" removed from all of Nashville plus the Hermitage and the land with it given to the Cherokee and slavery descendants.
Last Edited: 8/30/2023 7:07:01 PM by greencat
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JSF
8/30/2023 11:45 PM
Jackson is a member of the club of people whose graves (in this case) or statues I've spit upon.
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OhioCatFan
8/31/2023 10:27 AM
JSF wrote:expand_more
Jackson is a member of the club of people whose graves (in this case) or statues I've spit upon.
Just curious if you include Woodrow Wilson in that club. Lots of those in academe give him a pass because he was an academic, college president and had a Ph.D. One of "ours" so to speak. In my view, he was the worst racist to occupy the oval office from Lincoln until the present, though Andrew Johnson would run a close second. He did tremendous damage to the small but significant steps the nation had made toward racial reconciliation by, among other things, re-segregating the civil service. He thought the movie "Birth of a Nation" represented true historical reporting.

https://tinyurl.com/uw3scs33
Last Edited: 8/31/2023 10:39:14 AM by OhioCatFan
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greencat
8/31/2023 12:18 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Jackson is a member of the club of people whose graves (in this case) or statues I've spit upon.
Just curious if you include Woodrow Wilson in that club. Lots of those in academe give him a pass because he was an academic, college president and had a Ph.D. One of "ours" so to speak. In my view, he was the worst racist to occupy the oval office from Lincoln until the present, though Andrew Johnson would run a close second. He did tremendous damage to the small but significant steps the nation had made toward racial reconciliation by, among other things, re-segregating the civil service. He thought the movie "Birth of a Nation" represented true historical reporting.

https://tinyurl.com/uw3scs33
He also presided over ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment, giving women the right to vote, and laws that prohibited child labor and those that mandated an eight-hour workday for railroad workers.

Then again, Benito Mussolini made the trains run on time. Beat you to it.

Reagan supported apartheid and called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Just sayin'
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OhioCatFan
8/31/2023 1:01 PM
greencat wrote:expand_more
Jackson is a member of the club of people whose graves (in this case) or statues I've spit upon.
Just curious if you include Woodrow Wilson in that club. Lots of those in academe give him a pass because he was an academic, college president and had a Ph.D. One of "ours" so to speak. In my view, he was the worst racist to occupy the oval office from Lincoln until the present, though Andrew Johnson would run a close second. He did tremendous damage to the small but significant steps the nation had made toward racial reconciliation by, among other things, re-segregating the civil service. He thought the movie "Birth of a Nation" represented true historical reporting.

https://tinyurl.com/uw3scs33
He also presided over ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment, giving women the right to vote, and laws that prohibited child labor and those that mandated an eight-hour workday for railroad workers.

Then again, Benito Mussolini made the trains run on time. Beat you to it.

Reagan supported apartheid and called Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Just sayin'
Wilson may have been president when the 19th Amendment was sent to the states for ratification, and when it was ratified a few months later, but it was passed by Republicans. Here's the tally: In the House 200 Republicans voted in favor of the 19th Amendment, compared to only 102 Democrats. The vote in the Senate was 56 to 25, again carried by the GOP. In total, 82 percent of Republicans voted for the amendment and 41 percent of Democrats.

Reagan, as well as some other western leaders, incorrectly saw Mandela as a Communist who wanted to make South Africa a communist country. His opposition to Mandela was not based on race but on a misreading of global politics at that point in time. He was not supporting apartheid as such, but opposing what he thought was a greater evil. He was wrong, but I don't see how that compares with Wilson's directed efforts to re-segregate the Civil Service and personal support of the KKK.

https://tinyurl.com/rk25un7s
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greencat
8/31/2023 2:01 PM
Were Nixon and Reagan racists?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/07/ronald-... /

Not to mention Nixon/Reagan ally Pat Buchanan and his nation-dividing chicanery.
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