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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Another protest
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Alan Swank
2/8/2017 12:55 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
My God when will this liberal nonsense end? President McDavis gives us his best years and this is the thanks he gets? To our liberal friends here, see where this is all heading. God help us all!
I believe these protests, and the boorish behavior of the students and faculty involved, are producing the exact opposite of what they hope to achieve.
+1

On a national scale we have the protest for protest sake crowd. I was particularly taken with the now infamous fill-in-blank protest signs against the Supreme Court nominee. I keep wondering when they are going to realize that the average Joe and Jill voter are repulsed by this behavior; one can hope that it's not until after the 2018 mid-term elections. ;-)
I'm genuinely curious: what's repulsive about exercising constitutional rights? Whatever happened to all that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it" talk?

I mean, look, I don't agree with all or even most of what the majority of protesters argue for. But civic engagement is a net positive, and I find the idea that folks are "repulsed" by it to be really odd.
It's not a matter of what they are doing but how they are doing it or saying it. The foul language from the stage at the Women's March is just one example. People holding signs in front of the Athens courthouse that say F this or F that or grab this pu%$# are repulsive to those who might be recruited to support a cause.
I find it completely ridiculous to hold protesters outside of the Athens courthouse to a higher standard of decorum than we hold the President of the United States. "Grab this pu%$#" is a direct quote from the man that is now the president.
Not one person on here said that they were holding the local protesters to a higher standard. The President's comments were disgusting and the signs on see on Court Street are too and hurt the cause of those holding them. Period.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 1:00 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
You have every right to peacefully protest. Other have just as much right to think your protests are silly. That your energies would better be put to work doing something constructive. And, to conclude that whatever your protesting must indeed be a good thing not the bad thing you are claiming simply because they don't respect you as a protestor. MLK's protests were effective in the long run because after a while he gathered more and more people to his cause. It became clear to a vast majority of American's the apartheid-like conditions in the South were barbaric and had to go. He had the moral high ground. That's something that I can't say for the vast majority of the current protests. Your opinions may differ, but that's OK. But, I believe what I said above reflects the opinion of a majority of present citizenry.
If the majority of the present citizenry finds the exercising of a constitutional right so repulsive that it influences their political decisions, that's hugely discouraging for the future of our republic. This country was founded on political action and on the notion that the people deserve the right to make their voice heard. That applies not only to popular movements, but to anything.

There is, clearly, some cognitive dissonance at play on the right. Protests like the women's march are so silly so as to drive you to the other party, but the GOPs steadfast insistence that the Richard Spencers and Milo Yani-whatevers of the word deserve a platform are at odds with one another. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are both constitutional rights. You should support them both, even when you disagree with the message.
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DelBobcat
2/8/2017 1:00 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
My God when will this liberal nonsense end? President McDavis gives us his best years and this is the thanks he gets? To our liberal friends here, see where this is all heading. God help us all!
I believe these protests, and the boorish behavior of the students and faculty involved, are producing the exact opposite of what they hope to achieve.
+1

On a national scale we have the protest for protest sake crowd. I was particularly taken with the now infamous fill-in-blank protest signs against the Supreme Court nominee. I keep wondering when they are going to realize that the average Joe and Jill voter are repulsed by this behavior; one can hope that it's not until after the 2018 mid-term elections. ;-)
I'm genuinely curious: what's repulsive about exercising constitutional rights? Whatever happened to all that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it" talk?

I mean, look, I don't agree with all or even most of what the majority of protesters argue for. But civic engagement is a net positive, and I find the idea that folks are "repulsed" by it to be really odd.
It's not a matter of what they are doing but how they are doing it or saying it. The foul language from the stage at the Women's March is just one example. People holding signs in front of the Athens courthouse that say F this or F that or grab this pu%$# are repulsive to those who might be recruited to support a cause.
Are people repulsed by that language? They elected a man who spews that language and worse as their President. The protesters are only using nasty language to bring light to the fact that the POTUS speaks that way about women.
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DelBobcat
2/8/2017 1:04 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
You have every right to peacefully protest. Other have just as much right to think your protests are silly. That your energies would better be put to work doing something constructive. And, to conclude that whatever your protesting must indeed be a good thing not the bad thing you are claiming simply because they don't respect you as a protestor. MLK's protests were effective in the long run because after a while he gathered more and more people to his cause. It became clear to a vast majority of American's the apartheid-like conditions in the South were barbaric and had to go. He had the moral high ground. That's something that I can't say for the vast majority of the current protests. Your opinions may differ, but that's OK. But, I believe what I said above reflects the opinion of a majority of present citizenry.
The Women's March was the largest protest in history so clearly a lot of people agree with the cause. Many of the criticisms I see directed at protesters today, whether it be the Women's Marh, BLM, or other protests are the same criticisms that were leveled at MLK and others during the Civil Rights Movement. People seem to forget that there was a loud and large segment of society that thought that black people should just "shut up and respect the rule of law."
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 1:05 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
My God when will this liberal nonsense end? President McDavis gives us his best years and this is the thanks he gets? To our liberal friends here, see where this is all heading. God help us all!
I believe these protests, and the boorish behavior of the students and faculty involved, are producing the exact opposite of what they hope to achieve.
+1

On a national scale we have the protest for protest sake crowd. I was particularly taken with the now infamous fill-in-blank protest signs against the Supreme Court nominee. I keep wondering when they are going to realize that the average Joe and Jill voter are repulsed by this behavior; one can hope that it's not until after the 2018 mid-term elections. ;-)
I'm genuinely curious: what's repulsive about exercising constitutional rights? Whatever happened to all that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it" talk?

I mean, look, I don't agree with all or even most of what the majority of protesters argue for. But civic engagement is a net positive, and I find the idea that folks are "repulsed" by it to be really odd.
It's not a matter of what they are doing but how they are doing it or saying it. The foul language from the stage at the Women's March is just one example. People holding signs in front of the Athens courthouse that say F this or F that or grab this pu%$# are repulsive to those who might be recruited to support a cause.
I find it completely ridiculous to hold protesters outside of the Athens courthouse to a higher standard of decorum than we hold the President of the United States. "Grab this pu%$#" is a direct quote from the man that is now the president.
Not one person on here said that they were holding the local protesters to a higher standard. The President's comments were disgusting and the signs on see on Court Street are too and hurt the cause of those holding them. Period.
But the argument being made here is that the protesters words are so repulsive that it's driving "Joe and Jill voter" to support the party of the man responsible for the disgusting comments. Surely you see the disconnect right? You are voting for the party that decided not meeting that standard of decorum was no longer disqualifying because people are holding up signs quoting the President.
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Alan Swank
2/8/2017 1:49 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
My God when will this liberal nonsense end? President McDavis gives us his best years and this is the thanks he gets? To our liberal friends here, see where this is all heading. God help us all!
I believe these protests, and the boorish behavior of the students and faculty involved, are producing the exact opposite of what they hope to achieve.
+1

On a national scale we have the protest for protest sake crowd. I was particularly taken with the now infamous fill-in-blank protest signs against the Supreme Court nominee. I keep wondering when they are going to realize that the average Joe and Jill voter are repulsed by this behavior; one can hope that it's not until after the 2018 mid-term elections. ;-)
I'm genuinely curious: what's repulsive about exercising constitutional rights? Whatever happened to all that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it" talk?

I mean, look, I don't agree with all or even most of what the majority of protesters argue for. But civic engagement is a net positive, and I find the idea that folks are "repulsed" by it to be really odd.
It's not a matter of what they are doing but how they are doing it or saying it. The foul language from the stage at the Women's March is just one example. People holding signs in front of the Athens courthouse that say F this or F that or grab this pu%$# are repulsive to those who might be recruited to support a cause.
I find it completely ridiculous to hold protesters outside of the Athens courthouse to a higher standard of decorum than we hold the President of the United States. "Grab this pu%$#" is a direct quote from the man that is now the president.
Not one person on here said that they were holding the local protesters to a higher standard. The President's comments were disgusting and the signs on see on Court Street are too and hurt the cause of those holding them. Period.
But the argument being made here is that the protesters words are so repulsive that it's driving "Joe and Jill voter" to support the party of the man responsible for the disgusting comments. Surely you see the disconnect right? You are voting for the party that decided not meeting that standard of decorum was no longer disqualifying because people are holding up signs quoting the President.
Again no one is saying that because they are repulsed that they are supporting the Republican party or the President. The crude manner in which some of these protests are being conducted lead me to dismiss them. That doesn't mean I dismiss their cause but it's tough to take them seriously. If their ultimate goal is to reclaim certain elected offices, then I'm pretty much in line with the goal just not the methods.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 2:24 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
My God when will this liberal nonsense end? President McDavis gives us his best years and this is the thanks he gets? To our liberal friends here, see where this is all heading. God help us all!
I believe these protests, and the boorish behavior of the students and faculty involved, are producing the exact opposite of what they hope to achieve.
+1

On a national scale we have the protest for protest sake crowd. I was particularly taken with the now infamous fill-in-blank protest signs against the Supreme Court nominee. I keep wondering when they are going to realize that the average Joe and Jill voter are repulsed by this behavior; one can hope that it's not until after the 2018 mid-term elections. ;-)
I'm genuinely curious: what's repulsive about exercising constitutional rights? Whatever happened to all that "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend with my life your right to say it" talk?

I mean, look, I don't agree with all or even most of what the majority of protesters argue for. But civic engagement is a net positive, and I find the idea that folks are "repulsed" by it to be really odd.
It's not a matter of what they are doing but how they are doing it or saying it. The foul language from the stage at the Women's March is just one example. People holding signs in front of the Athens courthouse that say F this or F that or grab this pu%$# are repulsive to those who might be recruited to support a cause.
I find it completely ridiculous to hold protesters outside of the Athens courthouse to a higher standard of decorum than we hold the President of the United States. "Grab this pu%$#" is a direct quote from the man that is now the president.
Not one person on here said that they were holding the local protesters to a higher standard. The President's comments were disgusting and the signs on see on Court Street are too and hurt the cause of those holding them. Period.
But the argument being made here is that the protesters words are so repulsive that it's driving "Joe and Jill voter" to support the party of the man responsible for the disgusting comments. Surely you see the disconnect right? You are voting for the party that decided not meeting that standard of decorum was no longer disqualifying because people are holding up signs quoting the President.
Again no one is saying that because they are repulsed that they are supporting the Republican party or the President. The crude manner in which some of these protests are being conducted lead me to dismiss them. That doesn't mean I dismiss their cause but it's tough to take them seriously. If their ultimate goal is to reclaim certain elected offices, then I'm pretty much in line with the goal just not the methods.
OhioCat said exactly that, hence my confusion. He's saying that he hopes the protesters don't realize their "repulsive" behavior is driving "Joe and Jill Voter" to the Republicans until after the 2018 midterms. It's the premise of his entire argument.
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rpbobcat
2/8/2017 2:34 PM
No question President Trump's comments were inappropriate.
But,how many years ago were they made ?

When the comments came out,he was,rightly blasted in the press.
So now women are saying what he said is wrong,but its O.K. for us to say things that are worse ?

Its like F **K rape culture.
There has to be a better way to get your point across.
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C Money
2/8/2017 2:36 PM
https://vimeo.com/33677884
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catfan28
2/8/2017 2:43 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
How sad that you..and some of your colleagues here...are so stuck on labels that you can't get any farther, can't/won't deal with facts and reality and their likely consequences and how to proceed from those facts and consequences.

A closed mind is a sad thing.
Do you disagree with that connotation? Liberal = Support for Socialist Policies and Big Government. Some people support that. I don't. But we're allowed to disagree. However, to deny that is the connotation is naive.

"Facts" are so arbitrary. We have no idea what's true most of the time. Personally, I don't believe anything I hear in the media. You have to make up your own mind as to what's true. All of these "leaks" about Trump are ridiculous. Do you really think he's walking around in a bathrobe yelling at the TV? Even some of my more liberal-leaning friends have started to laugh at the coverage.

The media (and liberal politicians) are jumping the shark. It won't be long until they are completely discredited...and I, for one, look forward to it.

Republican Supermajority in 2018. That's the safest bet in Vegas.
By this definition Reagan was a big liberal as the size of government greatly increased.

And when you sit down and watch Trump make claims like murders are at a 47 year high, you do not know what to believe? Seriously? The FBI has kept and tracked these stats for decades and all the sudden because this clown says something random with NO numbers to support them you believe him? When he claims that 3-5 million people committed voter fraud while offering NO evidence at all you believe him? And now we are going to spend money investigating this??? Yeah, you are a real fiscal conservative!
People fail to realize his claim of voter fraud is an opinion. I'm inclined to believe there is widespread voter fraud too..though perhaps more in the range of one million illegal votes.

Opinions don't have to be backed up by some case study. We are all entitled to them, even the President. It would be like me saying if John Groce had stayed we'd have 2 more NCAA berths. I obviously can't cite some figure to prove it. Nor do I need to in order to make that claim.

I for one am proud to have a President that makes his opinions known and doesn't act like a political robot.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 2:47 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
No question President Trump's comments were inappropriate.
But,how many years ago were they made ?

When the comments came out,he was,rightly blasted in the press.
So now women are saying what he said is wrong,but its O.K. for us to say things that are worse ?

Its like F **K rape culture.
There has to be a better way to get your point across.
And yet here we are discussing their signs weeks later.

Maybe they served their purpose as designed?
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Kevin Finnegan
2/8/2017 2:54 PM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
How sad that you..and some of your colleagues here...are so stuck on labels that you can't get any farther, can't/won't deal with facts and reality and their likely consequences and how to proceed from those facts and consequences.

A closed mind is a sad thing.
Do you disagree with that connotation? Liberal = Support for Socialist Policies and Big Government. Some people support that. I don't. But we're allowed to disagree. However, to deny that is the connotation is naive.

"Facts" are so arbitrary. We have no idea what's true most of the time. Personally, I don't believe anything I hear in the media. You have to make up your own mind as to what's true. All of these "leaks" about Trump are ridiculous. Do you really think he's walking around in a bathrobe yelling at the TV? Even some of my more liberal-leaning friends have started to laugh at the coverage.

The media (and liberal politicians) are jumping the shark. It won't be long until they are completely discredited...and I, for one, look forward to it.

Republican Supermajority in 2018. That's the safest bet in Vegas.
By this definition Reagan was a big liberal as the size of government greatly increased.

And when you sit down and watch Trump make claims like murders are at a 47 year high, you do not know what to believe? Seriously? The FBI has kept and tracked these stats for decades and all the sudden because this clown says something random with NO numbers to support them you believe him? When he claims that 3-5 million people committed voter fraud while offering NO evidence at all you believe him? And now we are going to spend money investigating this??? Yeah, you are a real fiscal conservative!
People fail to realize his claim of voter fraud is an opinion. I'm inclined to believe there is widespread voter fraud too..though perhaps more in the range of one million illegal votes.

Opinions don't have to be backed up by some case study. We are all entitled to them, even the President. It would be like me saying if John Groce had stayed we'd have 2 more NCAA berths. I obviously can't cite some figure to prove it. Nor do I need to in order to make that claim.

I for one am proud to have a President that makes his opinions known and doesn't act like a political robot.
This is incredibly sad. How is it an opinion when you say 5 million illegal votes were cast? That's him making up a fact, not giving an opinion. If I said that I think Evan McMullin really got more votes, but they were discounted, that's a lie, not an opinion.

An opinion is how you feel, how you think, maybe your view. A fact is something that can be proven. It is your opinion that the media cannot be trusted, that is not a fact. It's an opinion that I disagree with, one that I imagine many graduates of Scripps disagree with, but you are entitled to your own opinion. As Daniel Moynahan famously stated, "You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts."

It is also sad that facts are politicized. They should be the one thing we can agree on, but have different interpretations on how to deal with them.

For example: It is a FACT that in the last election, Mr. Trump received 2.8 million fewer votes than the top vote getter. That is not an opinion. The opinion would come into play whether that matters at all, whether that would've been the case if he had been campaigning to win the popular vote rather than the electoral votes. It would be a difference of opinion whether the Electoral College is outdated or still relevant.
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rpbobcat
2/8/2017 3:09 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
No question President Trump's comments were inappropriate.
But,how many years ago were they made ?

When the comments came out,he was,rightly blasted in the press.
So now women are saying what he said is wrong,but its O.K. for us to say things that are worse ?

Its like F **K rape culture.
There has to be a better way to get your point across.
And yet here we are discussing their signs weeks later.

Maybe they served their purpose as designed?
Yes,people are discussing their signs,many not in a positive light.

So,if the purpose of the women's march was to show women can write things as,if not more,vulgar then the person they were trying to criticize,they accomplished their mission.

I think you would be hard pressed,if you asked people what the purpose of the march was you'd get consistent answers.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 3:22 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
No question President Trump's comments were inappropriate.
But,how many years ago were they made ?

When the comments came out,he was,rightly blasted in the press.
So now women are saying what he said is wrong,but its O.K. for us to say things that are worse ?

Its like F **K rape culture.
There has to be a better way to get your point across.
And yet here we are discussing their signs weeks later.

Maybe they served their purpose as designed?
Yes,people are discussing their signs,many not in a positive light.

So,if the purpose of the women's march was to show women can write things as,if not more,vulgar then the person they were trying to criticize,they accomplished their mission.

I think you would be hard pressed,if you asked people what the purpose of the march was you'd get consistent answers.
And I think you're missing the point. People are unhappy with the direction our government took for many, many reasons. Expecting 4 million people to have a seamlessly cohesive message beyond that is unreasonable. They're unhappy. Some of them are unhappy because we elected a sexist President. Others are unhappy because they no longer feel welcome in their country. Still others are afraid of Trump's bumbling foreign policy. And others are afraid of all of those things. Does that make their amassing less powerful or relevant? I don't think so.
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Alan Swank
2/8/2017 4:50 PM
finnOhio wrote:expand_more
How sad that you..and some of your colleagues here...are so stuck on labels that you can't get any farther, can't/won't deal with facts and reality and their likely consequences and how to proceed from those facts and consequences.

A closed mind is a sad thing.
Do you disagree with that connotation? Liberal = Support for Socialist Policies and Big Government. Some people support that. I don't. But we're allowed to disagree. However, to deny that is the connotation is naive.

"Facts" are so arbitrary. We have no idea what's true most of the time. Personally, I don't believe anything I hear in the media. You have to make up your own mind as to what's true. All of these "leaks" about Trump are ridiculous. Do you really think he's walking around in a bathrobe yelling at the TV? Even some of my more liberal-leaning friends have started to laugh at the coverage.

The media (and liberal politicians) are jumping the shark. It won't be long until they are completely discredited...and I, for one, look forward to it.

Republican Supermajority in 2018. That's the safest bet in Vegas.
By this definition Reagan was a big liberal as the size of government greatly increased.

And when you sit down and watch Trump make claims like murders are at a 47 year high, you do not know what to believe? Seriously? The FBI has kept and tracked these stats for decades and all the sudden because this clown says something random with NO numbers to support them you believe him? When he claims that 3-5 million people committed voter fraud while offering NO evidence at all you believe him? And now we are going to spend money investigating this??? Yeah, you are a real fiscal conservative!
People fail to realize his claim of voter fraud is an opinion. I'm inclined to believe there is widespread voter fraud too..though perhaps more in the range of one million illegal votes.

Opinions don't have to be backed up by some case study. We are all entitled to them, even the President. It would be like me saying if John Groce had stayed we'd have 2 more NCAA berths. I obviously can't cite some figure to prove it. Nor do I need to in order to make that claim.

I for one am proud to have a President that makes his opinions known and doesn't act like a political robot.
This is incredibly sad. How is it an opinion when you say 5 million illegal votes were cast? That's him making up a fact, not giving an opinion. If I said that I think Evan McMullin really got more votes, but they were discounted, that's a lie, not an opinion.

An opinion is how you feel, how you think, maybe your view. A fact is something that can be proven. It is your opinion that the media cannot be trusted, that is not a fact. It's an opinion that I disagree with, one that I imagine many graduates of Scripps disagree with, but you are entitled to your own opinion. As Daniel Moynahan famously stated, "You're entitled to your own opinion, but you're not entitled to your own facts."

It is also sad that facts are politicized. They should be the one thing we can agree on, but have different interpretations on how to deal with them.

For example: It is a FACT that in the last election, Mr. Trump received 2.8 million fewer votes than the top vote getter. That is not an opinion. The opinion would come into play whether that matters at all, whether that would've been the case if he had been campaigning to win the popular vote rather than the electoral votes. It would be a difference of opinion whether the Electoral College is outdated or still relevant.
Sad is an understatement considering it came from a current OU faculty member. Wow!
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Alan Swank
2/8/2017 4:52 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
No question President Trump's comments were inappropriate.
But,how many years ago were they made ?

When the comments came out,he was,rightly blasted in the press.
So now women are saying what he said is wrong,but its O.K. for us to say things that are worse ?

Its like F **K rape culture.
There has to be a better way to get your point across.
And yet here we are discussing their signs weeks later.

Maybe they served their purpose as designed?
Yes,people are discussing their signs,many not in a positive light.

So,if the purpose of the women's march was to show women can write things as,if not more,vulgar then the person they were trying to criticize,they accomplished their mission.

I think you would be hard pressed,if you asked people what the purpose of the march was you'd get consistent answers.
And I think you're missing the point. People are unhappy with the direction our government took for many, many reasons. Expecting 4 million people to have a seamlessly cohesive message beyond that is unreasonable. They're unhappy. Some of them are unhappy because we elected a sexist President. Others are unhappy because they no longer feel welcome in their country. Still others are afraid of Trump's bumbling foreign policy. And others are afraid of all of those things. Does that make their amassing less powerful or relevant? I don't think so.
And many people were unhappy that we had a black president, period. Many people. That is the sad, very sad truth.
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Ohio69
2/8/2017 5:11 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If the majority of the present citizenry finds the exercising of a constitutional right so repulsive that it influences their political decisions, that's hugely discouraging for the future of our republic. This country was founded on political action and on the notion that the people deserve the right to make their voice heard. That applies not only to popular movements, but to anything.

There is, clearly, some cognitive dissonance at play on the right. Protests like the women's march are so silly so as to drive you to the other party, but the GOPs steadfast insistence that the Richard Spencers and Milo Yani-whatevers of the word deserve a platform are at odds with one another. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are both constitutional rights. You should support them both, even when you disagree with the message.
This is nice and all. And all the posts like this afterwards. And all the back and fort above this post by everyone.

But, what they are doing is not working. They need to adjust. Or they'll keep losing.
Last Edited: 2/8/2017 5:14:11 PM by Ohio69
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 5:59 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
If the majority of the present citizenry finds the exercising of a constitutional right so repulsive that it influences their political decisions, that's hugely discouraging for the future of our republic. This country was founded on political action and on the notion that the people deserve the right to make their voice heard. That applies not only to popular movements, but to anything.

There is, clearly, some cognitive dissonance at play on the right. Protests like the women's march are so silly so as to drive you to the other party, but the GOPs steadfast insistence that the Richard Spencers and Milo Yani-whatevers of the word deserve a platform are at odds with one another. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are both constitutional rights. You should support them both, even when you disagree with the message.
This is nice and all. And all the posts like this afterwards. And all the back and fort above this post by everyone.

But, what they are doing is not working. They need to adjust. Or they'll keep losing.
Meh. This election was won by a total of about 350,000 votes in 3 states. The popular vote went, overwhelmingly, to the losing candidate.

It's become de rigueur to talk about liberal bubbles and act like this election was some seismic shift in the electorate, but it was a historically close election, and thus far the impact it's had has been to energize the left.

Everybody looks back at the Tea Party movement as the start of the populist wave that led to Trump, and they're right to do so. But those same people are completely dismissing the Women's March and missing the obvious.
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Kevin Finnegan
2/8/2017 7:45 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If the majority of the present citizenry finds the exercising of a constitutional right so repulsive that it influences their political decisions, that's hugely discouraging for the future of our republic. This country was founded on political action and on the notion that the people deserve the right to make their voice heard. That applies not only to popular movements, but to anything.

There is, clearly, some cognitive dissonance at play on the right. Protests like the women's march are so silly so as to drive you to the other party, but the GOPs steadfast insistence that the Richard Spencers and Milo Yani-whatevers of the word deserve a platform are at odds with one another. Freedom of speech and freedom of assembly are both constitutional rights. You should support them both, even when you disagree with the message.
This is nice and all. And all the posts like this afterwards. And all the back and fort above this post by everyone.

But, what they are doing is not working. They need to adjust. Or they'll keep losing.
Meh. This election was won by a total of about 350,000 votes in 3 states. The popular vote went, overwhelmingly, to the losing candidate.

It's become de rigueur to talk about liberal bubbles and act like this election was some seismic shift in the electorate, but it was a historically close election, and thus far the impact it's had has been to energize the left.

Everybody looks back at the Tea Party movement as the start of the populist wave that led to Trump, and they're right to do so. But those same people are completely dismissing the Women's March and missing the obvious.
Also often forgotten is not only did the Democratic candidate gain more votes, but the Democratic party gained seats in the Senate (+2) and in the House of Representatives (+8). These numbers still kept them in the minority, however.
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Ohio69
2/8/2017 8:12 PM
The Ohio statehouse is as red as can be, including an easy victory in liberal Athens. They will likely very soon pass laws outlawing sanctuary campuses and cities in Ohio. And take the conceal carry on campus choice away from universities. My guess is tenure will be discussed as well. They will have no fear because they have gerrymandered the state for republican dominance.

Nationally 25 democrat senators will be up for election. 25. Republicans just 8. The chances of flipping congress are worse.

These protests are turning people off. Time to try something different.
Last Edited: 2/8/2017 8:14:00 PM by Ohio69
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/8/2017 8:28 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
The Ohio statehouse is as red as can be, including an easy victory in liberal Athens. They will likely very soon pass laws outlawing sanctuary campuses and cities in Ohio. And take the conceal carry on campus choice away from universities. My guess is tenure will be discussed as well. They will have no fear because they have gerrymandered the state for republican dominance.

Nationally 25 democrat senators will be up for election. 25. Republicans just 8. The chances of flipping congress are worse.

These protests are turning people off. Time to try something different.
The biggest protests in history are turning people off based on what, exactly?

Nominating and confirming a white supremacist Attorney General will turn people off too, right? Or are protesters you don't agree with somehow worse than that?
Last Edited: 2/8/2017 8:42:31 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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DelBobcat
2/8/2017 9:28 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
The Ohio statehouse is as red as can be, including an easy victory in liberal Athens. They will likely very soon pass laws outlawing sanctuary campuses and cities in Ohio. And take the conceal carry on campus choice away from universities. My guess is tenure will be discussed as well. They will have no fear because they have gerrymandered the state for republican dominance.

Nationally 25 democrat senators will be up for election. 25. Republicans just 8. The chances of flipping congress are worse.

These protests are turning people off. Time to try something different.
We seem to be ok with the gerrymandering but furious about people using their freedom of speech and assembly. That's messed up. In 2012 Democrats got the majority of Congressional votes in Pennsylvania but Republicans got 12 of 19 seats. Republicans will remain the majority party as long as they can draw their own districts. Its egregious and demoralizing.
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OhioCatFan
2/9/2017 12:45 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Nominating and confirming a white supremacist Attorney General will turn people off too, right? Or are protesters you don't agree with somehow worse than that?
One of the big problems that the left in this country has now is the indiscriminate way in which opponents are smeared as "racist," or "white supremacist." These terms have real, and very important meanings, yet when they are used to describe nearly anyone you don't agree with they start to lose the power they should have. Before you call someone a racist or white supremacist, you need to make very sure you have all the facts. Here's an article about Jeff Sessions that portrays a person that while he might not fit your ideal as an attorney general, doesn't really come under any reasonable definition of those terms. This article describe how he helped to impanel a Federal Grand Jury in Alabama in order to convict some KKK folks who were guilty of a lynching of an African American. It was recommended because Alabama grand juries would only sit for a limited amount of time and Federal grand juries can sit until they complete their business. At least one of these domestic terrorists (KKK men) was executed as a result of these investigations. Does this really sound like a white supremacist to you?

https://tinyurl.com/jsdjv2n
Last Edited: 2/9/2017 12:56:17 AM by OhioCatFan
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Monroe Slavin
2/9/2017 1:24 AM
catfan28 wrote:expand_more
How sad that you..and some of your colleagues here...are so stuck on labels that you can't get any farther, can't/won't deal with facts and reality and their likely consequences and how to proceed from those facts and consequences.

A closed mind is a sad thing.
Do you disagree with that connotation? Liberal = Support for Socialist Policies and Big Government. Some people support that. I don't. But we're allowed to disagree. However, to deny that is the connotation is naive.

"Facts" are so arbitrary. We have no idea what's true most of the time. Personally, I don't believe anything I hear in the media. You have to make up your own mind as to what's true. All of these "leaks" about Trump are ridiculous. Do you really think he's walking around in a bathrobe yelling at the TV? Even some of my more liberal-leaning friends have started to laugh at the coverage.

The media (and liberal politicians) are jumping the shark. It won't be long until they are completely discredited...and I, for one, look forward to it.

Republican Supermajority in 2018. That's the safest bet in Vegas.
Trump walking around in a bath robe. That's difficult to believe about anyone?

Trump yelling at the TV. That's difficult to believe? Have you seen his tweets. Or heard him speak. He's so often at the extremes ('disaster, greatest, best ever, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc) Have you seen his twittering re Saturday Night Live or treatment of Ivanka's fashion line or a million other topics. The guy can't control himself.

Facts are arbitrary? Sure, for you they are. Because you deal in broad strokes without refuting specifics or establishing specifics.

So, then, be specific. What do you hear or read in the media that isn't true?



https://finance.yahoo.com/news/trumps-rich-first-economic...
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
2/9/2017 3:33 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Nominating and confirming a white supremacist Attorney General will turn people off too, right? Or are protesters you don't agree with somehow worse than that?
One of the big problems that the left in this country has now is the indiscriminate way in which opponents are smeared as "racist," or "white supremacist." These terms have real, and very important meanings, yet when they are used to describe nearly anyone you don't agree with they start to lose the power they should have. Before you call someone a racist or white supremacist, you need to make very sure you have all the facts. Here's an article about Jeff Sessions that portrays a person that while he might not fit your ideal as an attorney general, doesn't really come under any reasonable definition of those terms. This article describe how he helped to impanel a Federal Grand Jury in Alabama in order to convict some KKK folks who were guilty of a lynching of an African American. It was recommended because Alabama grand juries would only sit for a limited amount of time and Federal grand juries can sit until they complete their business. At least one of these domestic terrorists (KKK men) was executed as a result of these investigations. Does this really sound like a white supremacist to you?

https://tinyurl.com/jsdjv2n
I'm familiar with the facts of the case. Here's a far more detailed telling: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/01/sess... . Sessions, for what it's worth, was already once denied a federal judgeship for using racial slurs with colleagues.

While we're on the subject of what's wrong with US political factions, a huge issue on the right is their willingness to sacrifice their morality and get into bed with people like Jeff Sessions. His white supremacy continues. White supremacy isn't merely about the KKK and prosecuting high profile murder cases; it's also clear in notions like his decades long push against voter rights, his stance on both legal and illegal immigration, mandatory minimum sentencing, his continued support for policies that pinish offenders arrested with crack at 100x the rate of those arrested with cocaine, and his push against holding police departments accountable for discrimination.

These are bad, racist practices. Because he's not wearing a white hood I'm supposed to, what, pat him on the back? Choose my words in describing Sessions more carefully than he chooses his?

That's the problem with the right. Ultimately, all they are nowadays is just not the left. Their identity is about little more than their opposition to Liberals and PC culture, and they're totally willing to support discriminatory policy and let dog whistles be dog whistles, but the moment a spade is called a spade "words have serious meaning."
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