What amazes me is that with all the access to educational materials online and the helicopter parents that the average ACT score has remained unchanged. The real increase in ACT scores must have to do with hording the talent using merit aid.

I think this is an important point. The majority (I believe, but willing to be corrected) of OSU students start at a branch campus. If you did a survey of OSU juniors I guarantee the average ACT score is not nearly impressive as their freshman incoming class figure. In fact, I would venture a guess that the profile of the OHIO junior class and the OSU junior class is very similar. It seems that we have many more students that spend all four years on the main campus. If we sent more students to the branch campuses to start their education we'd be able to improve the look of our freshman class. However, I don't think that's something I'd be comfortable with. Living in the dorms on the Athens campus and making friends your freshman year is such an important part of the OHIO experience.

When OSU posts an average ACT of 29 because that freshman class is so large those it the bottom 10th percentile don't have nearly the scores. My guess that if anyone has a 25 on the ACT going to a OSU branch campus they likely didn't have the grades to earn a scholarship anywhere else. I don't think as many of those types even are sitting at OSU branch campuses at OUPride makes it to be. If they love OSU football that much they can go to Akron and watch them on TV in the dorms.

To throw some more info into the conversation I have the endowments of the University of California System. It's not necessary to have a 4 billion dollar endowment and be a 1st tier university. Of note, UC-Merced was started in 2005 (McDavis first year in office) and is already ranked 152 in the USWNR just behind OU. Funding in the Ohio state legislature is #1 OSU, #2 UC, #3 Ohio with Kent a close 4th. The next school is 50 million behind. With Kent's role in NE Ohio I think they should get in the top funding tier I've been talking about.

UC-Berkley $4.045 billion
UC-Los Angeles $3.53 billion
UC-San Francisco $2.3 billion
UC-San Diego $1.18 billion
UC-Davis $985 million
UC-Irvine $498.2 million
UC-Santa Barbara $273.7 million
UC-Santa Cruz $165.5
UC-Riverside $129.2 million
UC-Merced $38.6 million

Ohio St. $3.579 billion
Cincinnati $1.166 billion
Ohio $550 million
Kent State $110.7 million

Uncle Wes, interesting to note concerning endowments on the private side; Case Western Reserve is at nearly 2 billion, while Oberlin (undergrad around 3,000) and tiny Dennison (undergrad slightly more than 2,000) both have endowments that are around 300 million more than our beloved alma mater.

https://www.collegeraptor.com/college-rankings/details/En...

All I could find was the "suggested" requirements of 30+ ACT and top 10th of HS class. I never could find out what the actual profile of the 100 students admitted are. Maybe the person close the program might now. Overall, we're bringing 300 students in that are 30+ and 600-700 in that are in the top 10% each year, so the profile is probably higher than the minimum. The question is how high. Unfortunately, the common data sets only break down the 30+ catagory. They don't say how many 33-36 that we might be bringing in. The median ACT for the program could simply be 30 or it could be 32-33. Impossible to tell unless Ohio releases some more detailed info. For OSU, it was 1100 students that was just the entering 2014 freshmen) with a median ACT of 33 and a class rank of 98th percentile.

In any event, I don't think the way for HTC to market against them is simply on raw numbers but rather on the small size and tutorial structure of the program.

And when I mention McDavis' "Lost Decade," this is what I mean. And keep in mind that this was in a positive demographic period of increasing high school graduates both in Ohio and nationwide and also in a period when most selective schools were seeing consistent gains in freshman class quality.

2002 7% 30+ ACT & 18% top tenth of HS class
2003 7% & 19%
2004 7% & 17%
2005 6% & 16%
2006 7% & 15%
2007 7% & 18%
2008 8% & 15%
2009 8% & 16%
2010 9% & 14%
2011 7% & 15%
2012 9% & 16%
2013 8% & 17%
2014 7% & 15%
2015 8% & 16%
2016 7% & 15%

+1

The PDF Alan posted on page one was from the Office of Institutional Research. They surely have the numbers but I'm skeptical they are publishing the raw data anywhere. Would like to see that for more detailed look.

What is the enrollment of the 3 branch campuses? Do you have a data source that also includes average GPA. Its ACT+GPA that decides if you are getting into college. The example where 6% are below 23 on the ACT. They probably had 3.8+ GPAs. If the average GPA at OSU branch campuses is a 3.5 you might be onto to something but I suspect its a 3.2 so you are talking about more of a BG student. Price is also a driver for some of those kids at Marion and Mansfield.

It's a safe bet that 6% at OSU have strong overall applications and probably are in a special category such as athlete, veteran, under represented minority, first generation collage student or family below the poverty line. If you're a white kid at St Ignatius or Chagrin Falls whose parents went to college and make over a 100K, you'd better be a 30+ ACT kid if you want to go to OSU.

Not sure why the criticism of McDavis. One could make the point that he sacrificed academics for athletics.

I have never been a fan of big showy endowments, unless they are there to help students by lowering tuition and enhancing the present and future learning experience. However, what these big showy endowments do accomplish is to set the stage for an academic arms race among various schools who need to make a statement. The statement is sent either because they want to show that they are a public school in a different league like Ohio State and our beloved alma attempt to do. Yet if you are a smaller school like Oberlin (around 3,000 undergrad) and especially Dennison (a mere 2,000 undergrad) you seemingly want to blow everyone out of the water with your 800,000,000+ endowment.

Think about that, Dennison is the size of some large high schools and it has amassed an endowment of 800,000,000+. Outside of Ohio State and Cincinnati we have the largest endowment for a state school, and we are one of the oldest public universities in this nation; yet tiny Dennison has 300,000,000 more in their endowment than do we. It sends a message to prospective students.

There have been some thought provoking posts from Uncle Wes, OUPride, Alan Swank, Del Bobcat, Ohio Cat Fan, the Optimist, Robert Fox, C Money and many others concerning the competition our beloved alma mater is up against and some of the mistakes made along the way. I think it will be interesting to see how we fair in a few years considering the demographics of fewer teenagers and the rise of community colleges. What will become of the growing influence of the branch campuses (whose decline and perhaps crash is closer than we think.)

What about some state schools like Akron, Wright State and even Bowling Green that have seen their college rankings fall if not plummet. Wright State got themselves in a pickle because they had depended upon several hundred Saudi students coming each and every year. When the Saudi government moved that scholarship to another American university, Wright State took a financial hit, not to mention a hit to their reputation. What lies next for us and our competition?

There isn't much causality between McDavis and moderate spending increase over a decade and our relative decline in entering freshman classes. What I believe is how people who send their kids to college in Ohio have changed their view on sending their kids to school in Columbus. If they are out of state there isn't a reason to look at the state beyond Columbus the capital city so a place like Athens is ignored. I do think OU competes for students with OSU at the 26-30 ACT range where now its free tuition at OU with a 30 on the ACT and reduced tuition starting at 24 ACT (22 ACT out of state). There is not much the university can do to cut into the market of the 30+ ACT students. Unless the cities became real dangerous again with a repeat of the events of 1968 but the gentrification of urban cores is so advanced at this point its difficult to see critical mass for something like that again. High Street in flames might not be enough to scare helicopter parents.