I don't think that's necessarily true, unless the ACT is indisputably a better measure of academic capability than a GPA. Quite a few colleges and universities don't use the ACT as an admission requirement, so I don't think it's universally accepted.

Actually, test scores have always been the most reliable indicator of a student's ability to do college level work.

It appears that is debatable.

Regardless of whether we agree that they're the best indicator, they do tend to go hand-in-hand with other factors such as class rank and gpa. At any given high school, the top gpa holders are almost always going to have the top SAT/ACT scores, and the same correlation will hold between class rank and test scores. Yes, some bright kids are just lousy test takers and get SAT scores that may not match their gpa and class rank. Those types of students, however, are the statistical aberration rather than the rule.
[/QUOTE]If this is true, and perhaps it is, would it then diminish the accusation that high GPA's and low ACT's are a product of grade inflation? If GPA and high test scores usually go hand-in-hand, then a high GPA and low test score should be classified as a "poor test taker" as opposed to "grade inflation."

[QUOTE=OUPride]
At the end of the day, it comes down to how you want Ohio to be seen. As a peer and competitor to OSU and Miami or as a peer and competitor to Toledo and Kent? And those perceptions will have ramifications beyond merely which high school students choose to attend Ohio. It will also affect fundraising and faculty recruitment (and thus research funding) also.

Why?

If this is true, and perhaps it is, would it then diminish the accusation that high GPA's and low ACT's are a product of grade inflation? If GPA and high test scores usually go hand-in-hand, then a high GPA and low test score should be classified as a "poor test taker" as opposed to "grade inflation."



Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't think of OSU and Miami in the same category. I think of Miami as snobbery. Their students actually believe they are superior to others. I think of OSU as big enough for all types: highly gifted to run-of-the mill students. In terms of my preference for Ohio University, I choose my perception of the OSU model.

With grade inflation today, what's a GPA? I know a school where a 3.85 is a C, and several schools with a 5.0 and even 6.0 scales and when you convert them over to a 4.0 an A is actually a 4.65

Yep. I gave up on using HS GPA as a barometer once weighted GPAs became a thing.

Just yesterday I was discussing with my wife a related problem they are having in her grad program: a student who probably never should have been admitted, despite a fantastic GPA. The student just did not have the social skills needed in the field.

It makes me wonder if over the next generation schools will start looking at applicants' social media presence as a good thing rather than an incriminating one.

What I was suggesting is that OSU and Miami are head and shoulders above the rest of the system in terms of admissions selectivity and freshmen class profiles. There's probably room for one more, if not at the top with OSU, then at least grouped in people's minds with OSU and Miami. Right now, it's unclear whether that's going to be Ohio or Cincinnati.

I didn't mean to suggest that OSU and Miami are the same culturally. They're not. Most of the OSU alumni that I've met are pretty rational about the school (t-shirt fans are a different story). And you're right about Miami's comical level of snobbery about their school, which is delusional. You'd think they'd have a little bit of perspective considering that their whole (outdated) "public ivy" glory was possible ONLY because Ohio and OSU were forced to compete with one arm tied behind their backs as open admissions campuses.

As for the run of the mill students issue. I think that used to be the case for OSU when they were open admissions. Their science and engineering programs, AAU status and Big Ten allure still led them to get a good percentage of 30+ ACT students along with the open admission kids. I think that was a pretty unique situation, and one that Ohio probably can't follow I also don't know how welcome those run of the mill kids were to the administration and faculty.. Ohio State also had a reputation of being utterly brutal about weeding out kids their first year. Think how many people you meet in Ohio of a certain age who "went to OSU for a year or two." I know an older OSU alum who said at his freshman orientation in the early 70s, they told everyone to look at the person to your left and to your right and then said that one of you three won't be back next year.

What I was suggesting is that OSU and Miami are head and shoulders above the rest of the system in terms of admissions selectivity and freshmen class profiles. There's probably room for one more, if not at the top with OSU, then at least grouped in people's minds with OSU and Miami. Right now, it's unclear whether that's going to be Ohio or Cincinnati. Schools that are thriving have ratcheted up their admissions standards, and it's not just OSU. In the late 80s, you were still guaranteed a spot at Wisconsin-Madison if you graduated in the top half of a Wisconsin high school.

It's amazing and scary that we agree on something ;-)

Ohio should really promote the Oxbridge based tutorial model of the program to differentiate itself from similar programs at OSU/Miami. I also remember that it's always been a relatively small program. I'd like to know more as to whether that's a function of choice, of available resources and funding and/or of the overall applicant pool from which to choose. Last year, we had 7% at 30+ACT and 15% in top 10% of HS class.