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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: Jenny Hall Jones suspends all fraternity activity indefinitely
Page: 1 of 11
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shabamon
10/3/2019 8:36 PM
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.
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74 Cat
10/4/2019 7:44 AM
"All Interfraternity Council chapters were suspended Thursday until further notice."

Splitting hairs a bit but not all Greek letter fraternities are members of the council
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Robert Fox
10/4/2019 8:11 AM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Good. A freshman died from hazing last year and there are still multiple chapters under investigation. Throw the book at all of them.
Yes, "throw the book at all of them." Let God sort 'em out.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/4/2019 9:13 AM
Yep. Good riddance.
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Alan Swank
10/4/2019 9:15 AM
Kind of harsh to suspend them all and then go looking for violations. And just in time for the alumni return for Homecoming. :(
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SBH
10/4/2019 9:20 AM
I assume work has begun on the "Eat Me" float for the homecoming parade. And there's probably a run on marbles across SE Ohio.
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Bobcat Love
10/4/2019 10:02 AM
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 10:13 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
+ infinity !
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/4/2019 10:23 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
Somebody died. The Fraternities then proceeded to act exactly as they always did. Seven of them. That's systemic. Not a "few bad apples."

This is an easy decision. Frats made their bed, now they get to sleep in it.

I get that you don't like Nellis. Is this really the example you want to use as representative of that?
Last Edited: 10/4/2019 10:30:25 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 10:52 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
Somebody died. The Fraternities then proceeded to act exactly as they always did. Seven of them. That's systemic. Not a "few bad apples."

This is an easy decision. Frats made their bed, now they get to sleep in it.

I get that you don't like Nellis. Is this really the example you want to use as representative of that?
If I read The Post article correctly,allegations were made against 7 fraternities.

No one knows if the allegations are true.

I don't know O.U.'s procedures for handling an allegation for something like "hazing".

If an allegation alone is,under O.U.'s procedures,adequate to suspend a fraternity till an investigation is completed,that's fine.

But I don't understand the justification for the drastic action O.U. took to suspend all fraternities,without even an accusation against the others.
Last Edited: 10/4/2019 10:52:41 AM by rpbobcat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/4/2019 11:15 AM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
Somebody died. The Fraternities then proceeded to act exactly as they always did. Seven of them. That's systemic. Not a "few bad apples."

This is an easy decision. Frats made their bed, now they get to sleep in it.

I get that you don't like Nellis. Is this really the example you want to use as representative of that?
If I read The Post article correctly,allegations were made against 7 fraternities.

No one knows if the allegations are true.

I don't know O.U.'s procedures for handling an allegation for something like "hazing".

If an allegation alone is,under O.U.'s procedures,adequate to suspend a fraternity till an investigation is completed,that's fine.

But I don't understand the justification for the drastic action O.U. took to suspend all fraternities,without even an accusation against the others.
46% of active Fraternities have had allegations of hazing made against them less than a year the death a fraternity member. What's so drastic about temporarily suspending fraternities until an investigation into what is obviously a systemic issue can be conducted? Do you think it wasn't made clear to frats that they had to make changes to the way they do things? And is there any evidence that they made those changes?
Last Edited: 10/4/2019 11:20:57 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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shabamon
10/4/2019 12:08 PM
People on Facebook have posted the email reply from Jones. Maybe some of you are those people. It does not sound like each chapter will be investigated if they have no allegations, but those chapters have to fulfill some sort of requirement with the dean's office and will be reinstated individually once they meet that requirement. I'm good with that.

I wonder how they define hazing. Does it require bodily harm, drug/alcohol use, mental abuse? What about inconvenient team-building. I was in a fraternity and one time during pledging we were told to move a 600 lb boulder from the front yard to the back yard for... reasons. Is that a no-no?
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 1:36 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
46% of active Fraternities have had allegations of hazing made against them less than a year the death a fraternity member. What's so drastic about temporarily suspending fraternities until an investigation into what is obviously a systemic issue can be conducted? Do you think it wasn't made clear to frats that they had to make changes to the way they do things? And is there any evidence that they made those changes?
First off,an allegation is just that.

From reading The Post article,no fraternity has been found to have violated anything.

What's so drastic is you're penalizing fraternities that haven't even been accused of doing anything wrong.

You ask if the fraternities made changes to the way they do things.

I don't know.

Is there any evidence the fraternities who have no allegations against them didn't make the changes ?
Last Edited: 10/4/2019 1:36:44 PM by rpbobcat
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 1:38 PM
Was just on my way back from a meeting.

The frat story made the national news on CBS and ABC radio.
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 1:39 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
People on Facebook have posted the email reply from Jones. Maybe some of you are those people. It does not sound like each chapter will be investigated if they have no allegations, but those chapters have to fulfill some sort of requirement with the dean's office and will be reinstated individually once they meet that requirement. I'm good with that.

I wonder how they define hazing. Does it require bodily harm, drug/alcohol use, mental abuse? What about inconvenient team-building. I was in a fraternity and one time during pledging we were told to move a 600 lb boulder from the front yard to the back yard for... reasons. Is that a no-no?
It will be interesting to see what the requirement is.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/4/2019 2:06 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
46% of active Fraternities have had allegations of hazing made against them less than a year the death a fraternity member. What's so drastic about temporarily suspending fraternities until an investigation into what is obviously a systemic issue can be conducted? Do you think it wasn't made clear to frats that they had to make changes to the way they do things? And is there any evidence that they made those changes?
First off,an allegation is just that.

From reading The Post article,no fraternity has been found to have violated anything.

What's so drastic is you're penalizing fraternities that haven't even been accused of doing anything wrong.

You ask if the fraternities made changes to the way they do things.

I don't know.

Is there any evidence the fraternities who have no allegations against them didn't make the changes ?
I think you're making the mistake of viewing these as 15 unique organizations. They're all members of one governing body and adhere to similar rules. If you were, as an example, the CEO of of a company, and 46% of your employees were accused of breaking the same policy would you: 1) Only take steps around that policy with the 46% accused, or 2) assume that indicated something system and take a wider approach?

This is the obvious thing to do and the University has every right to do it. If it turns out, hazing isn't a problem at Ohio University, that'll be determined. But, you know, I went to OU and was awake while I was there, so I wouldn't bet the farm on the idea that there isn't rampant hazing at OU frats.
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OU_Country
10/4/2019 3:18 PM
Did the G.D.I.'s get suspended as well?
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rpbobcat
10/4/2019 4:12 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I think you're making the mistake of viewing these as 15 unique organizations. They're all members of one governing body and adhere to similar rules. If you were, as an example, the CEO of of a company, and 46% of your employees were accused of breaking the same policy would you: 1) Only take steps around that policy with the 46% accused, or 2) assume that indicated something system and take a wider approach?

This is the obvious thing to do and the University has every right to do it. If it turns out, hazing isn't a problem at Ohio University, that'll be determined. But, you know, I went to OU and was awake while I was there, so I wouldn't bet the farm on the idea that there isn't rampant hazing at OU frats.
I don't agree with your analogy.

O.U. doesn't have one big fraternity.

Each fraternity chapter is an independent entity.
They have different membership requirements and standards,set by their national
organizations.

Obviously O.U. has the ability to do what they did.

I don't think it was the "obvious thing to do".

I think it was an over reaction.

As far as hazing,I went to O.U. in the mid 70's.

Talk about hazing.
My room mate pledged the BETA's.

He used to come home from Friday night "house cleaning" and chapter meetings,battered,bloody (literally) and covered in you name it.
Peanut butter,honey and flour was a favorite.

Personally,I never understood wanting to go through that to prove you were worthy to join.
But he and lots of other people did.

Their choice.

No question hazing can and has gotten out of hand.

But,I don't understand,especially when it comes to things like binge drinking,or putting you or yourself in "harm's way",you don't just say _ _ _ _ this and leave.
Last Edited: 10/4/2019 4:13:59 PM by rpbobcat
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/4/2019 5:19 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
I think you're making the mistake of viewing these as 15 unique organizations. They're all members of one governing body and adhere to similar rules. If you were, as an example, the CEO of of a company, and 46% of your employees were accused of breaking the same policy would you: 1) Only take steps around that policy with the 46% accused, or 2) assume that indicated something system and take a wider approach?

This is the obvious thing to do and the University has every right to do it. If it turns out, hazing isn't a problem at Ohio University, that'll be determined. But, you know, I went to OU and was awake while I was there, so I wouldn't bet the farm on the idea that there isn't rampant hazing at OU frats.
I don't agree with your analogy.

O.U. doesn't have one big fraternity.

Each fraternity chapter is an independent entity.
They have different membership requirements and standards,set by their national
organizations.

Obviously O.U. has the ability to do what they did.

I don't think it was the "obvious thing to do".

I think it was an over reaction.

As far as hazing,I went to O.U. in the mid 70's.

Talk about hazing.
My room mate pledged the BETA's.

He used to come home from Friday night "house cleaning" and chapter meetings,battered,bloody (literally) and covered in you name it.
Peanut butter,honey and flour was a favorite.

Personally,I never understood wanting to go through that to prove you were worthy to join.
But he and lots of other people did.

Their choice.

No question hazing can and has gotten out of hand.

But,I don't understand,especially when it comes to things like binge drinking,or putting you or yourself in "harm's way",you don't just say _ _ _ _ this and leave.
As I said, somebody died and then the university received separate complaints about 7 different fraternities' hazing procedures less than a year later. That you don't know the substance of the complaints, but still feel 100% confident this was an overreaction feels odd to me. My stance is really pretty simple: this volume of complaints, so soon after a death, warrants this action.
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Alan Swank
10/4/2019 9:01 PM
Shame, your disdain for fraternities is quite evident. So I had a bad meal at Casa tonight (I didn't) and I complain. Tomorrow morning based on that subjective and unsubstantiated complaint, all 15 restaurants in Athens get closed down. Yep, that makes lots of sense kind of like taking recess from the whole class because one kid acted up. That will teach the little bastards.
Last Edited: 10/5/2019 8:33:47 AM by Alan Swank
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mid70sbobcat
10/4/2019 10:19 PM
And I saw we got national mention from Lester Holt on NBC tonight on 6:30 news.

When a kid (pledge) at Clemson died seems there were different consequences.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/clemson-fraternity-ki...

I think shutting down all fraternities on the Athens campus was a bit much.
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Alan Swank
10/5/2019 10:25 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Nellis and the New Mexico/Texas Tech pedigree are really doing great things down there....what a disgrace. You don't systematically destroy one of the oldest tenants of campus life just because of a few bad apples. What a pathetic, pathetic state of affairs. Can we get Rod back? Like, yesterday.
The headline for this article on the front page of today's Dispatch print edition reads - "OU leader supports fraternity suspension"

https://www.dispatch.com/news/20191004/ohio-university-la...
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/5/2019 10:45 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Shame, your disdain for fraternities is quite evident. So I had a bad meal at Casa tonight (I didn't) and I complain. Tomorrow morning based on that subjective and unsubstantiated complaint, all 15 restaurants in Athens get closed down. Yep, that makes lots of sense kind of like taking recess from the whole class because one kid acted up. That will teach the little bastards.
Did you die? Was it because of a procedure shared by all 15 restaurants? Because shutting down all 15 restaurants temporarily to investigate said procedure might make sense.

And while you think my stance here is about "disdain" for frats, your first reply was about homecoming alums.

This behavior killed somebody. Let's apply a tiny bit of perspective. A temporary shut down until an investigation is completed is completely reasonable.

Even before homecoming.
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MonroeClassmate
10/5/2019 12:29 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I think you're making the mistake of viewing these as 15 unique organizations. They're all members of one governing body and adhere to similar rules. If you were, as an example, the CEO of of a company, and 46% of your employees were accused of breaking the same policy would you: 1) Only take steps around that policy with the 46% accused, or 2) assume that indicated something system and take a wider approach?

This is the obvious thing to do and the University has every right to do it. If it turns out, hazing isn't a problem at Ohio University, that'll be determined. But, you know, I went to OU and was awake while I was there, so I wouldn't bet the farm on the idea that there isn't rampant hazing at OU frats.
I don't agree with your analogy.

O.U. doesn't have one big fraternity.

Each fraternity chapter is an independent entity.
They have different membership requirements and standards,set by their national
organizations.

Obviously O.U. has the ability to do what they did.

I don't think it was the "obvious thing to do".

I think it was an over reaction.

As far as hazing,I went to O.U. in the mid 70's.

Talk about hazing.
My room mate pledged the BETA's.

He used to come home from Friday night "house cleaning" and chapter meetings,battered,bloody (literally) and covered in you name it.
Peanut butter,honey and flour was a favorite.

Personally,I never understood wanting to go through that to prove you were worthy to join.
But he and lots of other people did.

Their choice.

No question hazing can and has gotten out of hand.

But,I don't understand,especially when it comes to things like binge drinking,or putting you or yourself in "harm's way",you don't just say _ _ _ _ this and leave.
As I said, somebody died and then the university received separate complaints about 7 different fraternities' hazing procedures less than a year later. That you don't know the substance of the complaints, but still feel 100% confident this was an overreaction feels odd to me. My stance is really pretty simple: this volume of complaints, so soon after a death, warrants this action.

Do we know that "the university received separate complaints about 7 different fraternities" ? Some media reports say the complaints were all received within a 48 hour period.

Was it seven accusations by seven different whistle blowers? Is the 48 hour time frame somewhat accurate?

"Within a 48 hour time frame we had seven different fraternities had allegations of hazing brought to our attention, and that is a really short time frame for that high a number," said Leatherwood. (Carly is communication officer at OU)

Yes, that is a REALLY short time frame.
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Alan Swank
10/5/2019 12:30 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
Shame, your disdain for fraternities is quite evident. So I had a bad meal at Casa tonight (I didn't) and I complain. Tomorrow morning based on that subjective and unsubstantiated complaint, all 15 restaurants in Athens get closed down. Yep, that makes lots of sense kind of like taking recess from the whole class because one kid acted up. That will teach the little bastards.
Did you die? Was it because of a procedure shared by all 15 restaurants? Because shutting down all 15 restaurants temporarily to investigate said procedure might make sense.

And while you think my stance here is about "disdain" for frats, your first reply was about homecoming alums.

This behavior killed somebody. Let's apply a tiny bit of perspective. A temporary shut down until an investigation is completed is completely reasonable.

Even before homecoming.
The tragedy was last year and that fraternity is now gone. Since when do we hand out punishment before there has been an investigation. Even the OU PD spokesperson has said there is no evidence of a crime at this point. As for Homecoming, this not only affects the 15 fraternities but their partner sororities during a time of philanthropic activity. And there is significant research that supports the fact that as a group those engaged in their college or university (Greek life being one of those forms of engagement) are more likely to give back to their alma mater than a GDI.

And from the latest ANews article:

In another post in the same group, Scott Haag, a ’94 OU graduate, condemned the suspension of all 15 traditional fraternities, saying he’s “ashamed to be an Ohio University Bobcat thanks to the heavy-handed ineptitude of the current Dean of Students Jenny Hall-Jones…”

Haag added that he won’t contribute any more money to the university or attend Homecoming next weekend (Oct. 18-19) unless President Duane Nellis or the OU Board of Trustees “reign in” Hall-Jones.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/local/ou-moves-to-suspend...
Last Edited: 10/5/2019 4:13:14 PM by Alan Swank
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