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General Ohio University Discussion/Alumni Events Topic
Topic: The enrollment decline is for real
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TWT
9/19/2019 11:16 PM
I didn't believe it was for real but enrollment is down by 1,000 this year, lowest total since 2005-06. Freshman class profile has hit a new record high for GPA and percentage in the top 10 of the freshman class. Grad student enrollment is up 4.7%. Quality but not quantity I guess.

Quote:expand_more
Ohio University this fall semester saw a significant enrollment decline compared to fall semester 2018, dropping about 1,800 students.

This is the third year in a row that the university has seen a decline in its total fall enrollment number, with decreases yet again on both the Athens campus and regional campuses.

In a news release issued Wednesday, however, OU put a positive spin on things, noting that this year’s freshman cohort had a “record-high grad point average and the highest proportion of students in the top 10 percent of their classes.”

The fall freshman class had an average GPA of 3.55 on a 4.0 scale, and 20.3 percent of the students came from the top 10 percent of their class, up from 17.6 percent last year, Chaden Djalali, OU’s executive vice president and provost, said in the release.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-sees-further-en...
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OU_Country
9/20/2019 12:44 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
I didn't believe it was for real but enrollment is down by 1,000 this year, lowest total since 2005-06. Freshman class profile has hit a new record high for GPA and percentage in the top 10 of the freshman class. Grad student enrollment is up 4.7%. Quality but not quantity I guess.

Ohio University this fall semester saw a significant enrollment decline compared to fall semester 2018, dropping about 1,800 students.

This is the third year in a row that the university has seen a decline in its total fall enrollment number, with decreases yet again on both the Athens campus and regional campuses.

In a news release issued Wednesday, however, OU put a positive spin on things, noting that this year’s freshman cohort had a “record-high grad point average and the highest proportion of students in the top 10 percent of their classes.”

The fall freshman class had an average GPA of 3.55 on a 4.0 scale, and 20.3 percent of the students came from the top 10 percent of their class, up from 17.6 percent last year, Chaden Djalali, OU’s executive vice president and provost, said in the release.

https://www.athensnews.com/news/campus/ou-sees-further-en...

Does anyone know, are other universities in Ohio and the region seeing similar numbers?
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SBH
9/20/2019 1:58 PM
Yes. Most are down. Even Kent is down for the first time in many years.
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OU_Country
9/20/2019 2:38 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Yes. Most are down. Even Kent is down for the first time in many years.
So why is that? Declining population? Too expensive? Admissions standards too high? (I say that because a 3.5 to get into OU would have made it impossible for me to get in)
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cbus cat fan
9/20/2019 3:08 PM
This is simply due to demographics. I would have to dig out my old planning spreadsheets to get the exact numbers. However, Ohio high school graduation numbers peaked between 2004-2010. Outside of growth areas i.e. northern Columbus suburban districts like Olentangy, Dublin etc and Cincinnati growth areas like Mason and Springboro etc numbers will probably continue to decline. Below is a short interesting Higher Ed article. I would pay particular attention to the commentor Bolz towards the bottom of the comments section. This particular individual nails what seems to be happening.
https://www.insidehighered.com/quicktakes/2019/05/30/coll...
Last Edited: 9/20/2019 3:08:45 PM by cbus cat fan
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UpSan Bobcat
9/20/2019 4:41 PM
There has been a decline in the number of total graduating students in high schools for about five years now and it is a trend that is supposed to continue: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/12/high_school_gradu...

Falling enrollment in all types of Ohio colleges since around 2011: https://www.ohiohighered.org/data-reports/enrollment

About 80 percent of students who go to college in Ohio are from Ohio, so a large part of it is that there simply are less students to recruit. I couldn't find anything that indicated if a lower percentage of students were going to college.
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OUPride
9/20/2019 8:35 PM
Demographics. The pool of Ohio high school graduates is supposed to shrink over the next several years. OSU even saw a decline of 200 students.
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The Optimist
9/21/2019 6:45 AM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
Yes. Most are down. Even Kent is down for the first time in many years.
So why is that? Declining population? Too expensive? Admissions standards too high? (I say that because a 3.5 to get into OU would have made it impossible for me to get in)
Follow-up question: Has acceptance rate changed significantly over this time frame?
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OUPride
9/21/2019 8:28 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Yes. Most are down. Even Kent is down for the first time in many years.
So why is that? Declining population? Too expensive? Admissions standards too high? (I say that because a 3.5 to get into OU would have made it impossible for me to get in)
Follow-up question: Has acceptance rate changed significantly over this time frame?
I didn't go year to year, but here's a general trend in acceptance rates.

2006: 84.9%
2010: 85.1%
2015: 74.4%
2018: 78.3%

It would seem that after a period of improvement, the demographic crunch has the trend reversing. But if we're accepting more applicants yet still ending up with better classes, that's huge.

The common data set isn't up for this Fall's freshman class yet. FWIW, the yield in 2018 (percentage of accepted applicants who actually end up in Athens) was 21%. I don't know how that compares to OSU, Miami and UC.
Last Edited: 9/21/2019 8:31:25 AM by OUPride
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Alan Swank
9/21/2019 10:25 AM
I don't put a lot of stock in GPA (greatly inflated) or acceptance rates. With common applications and the like, lots of folks apply ot lots of schools inflating the number applying. If fewer actually enroll, that skews the acceptance rate.

At the end of the day, admissions is a sales job and the best sales team will close the most kids. Perhaps it's time to start employing sales professionals in addition to student personnel folks with a graduate degree.
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Alan Swank
9/21/2019 12:35 PM
And then there is the impact on the athletics budget. If a student pays $900 per year in fees to athletics and 1000 fewer students are paying that, that's a hit of $900,000 to the budget. That is huge.
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TWT
9/21/2019 12:57 PM
Miami in particular and Ohio use more of a private school formula which combines GPA, college boards and extracurricular activities. Ohio State is more of an ACT score thing and they don't even report their average GPA. Other schools like Toledo take in more small school kids with a decent GPA but not high boards. Miami I would claim is at its ceiling reporting a 3.76 GPA for last year. This year their applications are down about 7% so maybe 3.73 but I don't have the 2019 numbers yet. Cincinnati was 3.61 in 2018. Given that Ohio wants to maintain its accessibility to SEO the ceiling is probably a 3.65 which is where Miami might have to settle in as they drop in the rankings.

MAC's applicant and GPA numbers for 2018

Miami 30,255 (3.76)
Buffalo 28,088 (3.60)
Ohio 26,263 (3.54)
Ball State 24,191 (3.50)
CMU 19,021 (3.36)
Bowling Green 16,739 (3.40)
EMU 16,012 (3.30)
Kent State 13,538 (3.38)
Akron 15,109 (3.50)
NIU 14,641 (3.26)
WMU 14,263 (3.37)
Toledo 10,946 (3.39)

https://www.collegedata.com /
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Buck.Cat
9/21/2019 1:22 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
And then there is the impact on the athletics budget. If a student pays $900 per year in fees to athletics and 1000 fewer students are paying that, that's a hit of $900,000 to the budget. That is huge.
Sounds like it's time to raise fees to continue to prop up the fantasy.
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BillyTheCat
9/21/2019 7:45 PM
This thread is priceless, when talking about declining participation rates in football I’m told demographics can not possibly be a reason, however it is a primary reason for fewer kids going to Universities.
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TWT
9/22/2019 3:22 AM
UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
There has been a decline in the number of total graduating students in high schools for about five years now and it is a trend that is supposed to continue: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/12/high_school_gradu...

Falling enrollment in all types of Ohio colleges since around 2011: https://www.ohiohighered.org/data-reports/enrollment

About 80 percent of students who go to college in Ohio are from Ohio, so a large part of it is that there simply are less students to recruit. I couldn't find anything that indicated if a lower percentage of students were going to college.
The dropoff is much more sever at the community college level which has lost 40,000 students at its peak compared to 12,000 for the public universities. OU has absorbed a big drop off in its 2017, 2018, 2019 in its classes while its posted a record GPA of 3.54, 3.54, 3.55 in those years. Raised admission standards and competing against more competitive schools has reduced the yield from those who were admitted. Moving to smaller and more competitive Miami type classes could be in store for the future.
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Alan Swank
9/22/2019 9:56 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
There has been a decline in the number of total graduating students in high schools for about five years now and it is a trend that is supposed to continue: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/12/high_school_gradu...

Falling enrollment in all types of Ohio colleges since around 2011: https://www.ohiohighered.org/data-reports/enrollment

About 80 percent of students who go to college in Ohio are from Ohio, so a large part of it is that there simply are less students to recruit. I couldn't find anything that indicated if a lower percentage of students were going to college.
The dropoff is much more sever at the community college level which has lost 40,000 students at its peak compared to 12,000 for the public universities. OU has absorbed a big drop off in its 2017, 2018, 2019 in its classes while its posted a record GPA of 3.54, 3.54, 3.55 in those years. Raised admission standards and competing against more competitive schools has reduced the yield from those who were admitted. Moving to smaller and more competitive Miami type classes could be in store for the future.
So with so many high schools using "weighted grades" with Athens High being one of the most extreme - an A+ in a CC+ course is worth 6.33 and an A+ in a regular course is worth 4.33 - there is no way ot convert those scores to a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is jacking up the average GPA while ACT and SAT scores have remained relatively stagnant.
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Mike Johnson
9/22/2019 10:23 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
There has been a decline in the number of total graduating students in high schools for about five years now and it is a trend that is supposed to continue: https://www.cleveland.com/metro/2016/12/high_school_gradu...

Falling enrollment in all types of Ohio colleges since around 2011: https://www.ohiohighered.org/data-reports/enrollment

About 80 percent of students who go to college in Ohio are from Ohio, so a large part of it is that there simply are less students to recruit. I couldn't find anything that indicated if a lower percentage of students were going to college.
The dropoff is much more sever at the community college level which has lost 40,000 students at its peak compared to 12,000 for the public universities. OU has absorbed a big drop off in its 2017, 2018, 2019 in its classes while its posted a record GPA of 3.54, 3.54, 3.55 in those years. Raised admission standards and competing against more competitive schools has reduced the yield from those who were admitted. Moving to smaller and more competitive Miami type classes could be in store for the future.
So with so many high schools using "weighted grades" with Athens High being one of the most extreme - an A+ in a CC+ course is worth 6.33 and an A+ in a regular course is worth 4.33 - there is no way ot convert those scores to a 4.0 scale. Grade inflation is jacking up the average GPA while ACT and SAT scores have remained relatively stagnant.
I once asked the late and blunt Mel Helitzer reasons for grade inflation. His reply: "Professors afraid of student appraisals."
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TWT
9/22/2019 1:26 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
And then there is the impact on the athletics budget. If a student pays $900 per year in fees to athletics and 1000 fewer students are paying that, that's a hit of $900,000 to the budget. That is huge.
Sure. The question is where is the bottom? The university is going to have to see how the next couple of freshman classes come in before they can plan for athletics. In a lot of ways the smaller classes aren't necessarily a bad thing because it reduces crowding on campus and lowers class size.
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Alan Swank
10/7/2019 9:14 AM
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
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BillyTheCat
10/7/2019 1:11 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.


And surely this must be a typo, surely the University is not down almost 5,000 students in 1 year.

"The university said a total of 19,856 students are enrolled at the Athens campus, including graduate and medical students, according to a press release. That is a decline from numbers in August 2018, which was 24,155."
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Alan Swank
10/7/2019 1:27 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.
In this quote and in conversation with a recently retired dean or regional high education. While it may be saving families money, CC+ is killing the branch campus enrollments not to mention grossly inflating GPAs in high schools with weighted grades. Take for example your school - Athens High - I would much rather have a student enrolled there taking a CC+ class than at OU.

"Furthermore, there is a small dip in students who are staying at the university for four years, which also affects revenue."

“Ohio University has maintained four-year retention rates between 66 and 69% since 2010 and has a record-high 81.5% retention rate for second-year students in the Fall of 2019,” Jim Sabin, a university spokesperson, said in an email. “While we have seen a slight increase in the three-year graduation rate, it is a very small population.”
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BillyTheCat
10/7/2019 2:18 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.
In this quote and in conversation with a recently retired dean or regional high education. While it may be saving families money, CC+ is killing the branch campus enrollments not to mention grossly inflating GPAs in high schools with weighted grades. Take for example your school - Athens High - I would much rather have a student enrolled there taking a CC+ class than at OU.

"Furthermore, there is a small dip in students who are staying at the university for four years, which also affects revenue."

“Ohio University has maintained four-year retention rates between 66 and 69% since 2010 and has a record-high 81.5% retention rate for second-year students in the Fall of 2019,” Jim Sabin, a university spokesperson, said in an email. “While we have seen a slight increase in the three-year graduation rate, it is a very small population.”
Good luck finding someone the University will accredit for teaching CC+ at the schools. My building actually have people who are adjuncts on campus, but the University will not allow them to teach CC+ at the local schools. By State law any college class has to be credited at the highest lGPA level

And are those figures a typo, down almost 5,000 students?
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Alan Swank
10/7/2019 2:24 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.
In this quote and in conversation with a recently retired dean or regional high education. While it may be saving families money, CC+ is killing the branch campus enrollments not to mention grossly inflating GPAs in high schools with weighted grades. Take for example your school - Athens High - I would much rather have a student enrolled there taking a CC+ class than at OU.

"Furthermore, there is a small dip in students who are staying at the university for four years, which also affects revenue."

“Ohio University has maintained four-year retention rates between 66 and 69% since 2010 and has a record-high 81.5% retention rate for second-year students in the Fall of 2019,” Jim Sabin, a university spokesperson, said in an email. “While we have seen a slight increase in the three-year graduation rate, it is a very small population.”
Good luck finding someone the University will accredit for teaching CC+ at the schools. My building actually have people who are adjuncts on campus, but the University will not allow them to teach CC+ at the local schools. By State law any college class has to be credited at the highest lGPA level

And are those figures a typo, down almost 5,000 students?
OU is way out of line on CC+ in terms of who in the local high school can teach it and quite hypocritical in granting adjunct status (you can be an adjunct here making pennies but you can't grant CC+ credit on a regular teaching salary). Rio is much friendlier and therefore kids are taking CC+ classes in their local high schools. Because there are so many ways to count students now - on campus, branch campus, CC+, online, undergraduate, graduate, medical college, etc., it's really tough to get a number. The Dispatch quoted the OU spokesperson as saying 33,000 in an article last week. All I know is that Athens isn't as crowded this year as it has been in past years. I can pretty much park wherever I want whenever I want.
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David E Brightbill
10/7/2019 8:43 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.
In this quote and in conversation with a recently retired dean or regional high education. While it may be saving families money, CC+ is killing the branch campus enrollments not to mention grossly inflating GPAs in high schools with weighted grades. Take for example your school - Athens High - I would much rather have a student enrolled there taking a CC+ class than at OU.

"Furthermore, there is a small dip in students who are staying at the university for four years, which also affects revenue."

“Ohio University has maintained four-year retention rates between 66 and 69% since 2010 and has a record-high 81.5% retention rate for second-year students in the Fall of 2019,” Jim Sabin, a university spokesperson, said in an email. “While we have seen a slight increase in the three-year graduation rate, it is a very small population.”
Good luck finding someone the University will accredit for teaching CC+ at the schools. My building actually have people who are adjuncts on campus, but the University will not allow them to teach CC+ at the local schools. By State law any college class has to be credited at the highest lGPA level

And are those figures a typo, down almost 5,000 students?
OU is way out of line on CC+ in terms of who in the local high school can teach it and quite hypocritical in granting adjunct status (you can be an adjunct here making pennies but you can't grant CC+ credit on a regular teaching salary). Rio is much friendlier and therefore kids are taking CC+ classes in their local high schools. Because there are so many ways to count students now - on campus, branch campus, CC+, online, undergraduate, graduate, medical college, etc., it's really tough to get a number. The Dispatch quoted the OU spokesperson as saying 33,000 in an article last week. All I know is that Athens isn't as crowded this year as it has been in past years. I can pretty much park wherever I want whenever I want.

Interesting my grandson was able to get OU credits while attending Fort Frye high school.
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Alan Swank
10/7/2019 10:21 PM
David E Brightbill wrote:expand_more
From the Post. At the end of the article the university is beginning to see the effects of CC+ students.

https://www.thepostathens.com/article/2019/10/transfer-ra...
Where do you see that CC+ students are having an effect? By the increase in 3 year graduation rates? That's a positive.
In this quote and in conversation with a recently retired dean or regional high education. While it may be saving families money, CC+ is killing the branch campus enrollments not to mention grossly inflating GPAs in high schools with weighted grades. Take for example your school - Athens High - I would much rather have a student enrolled there taking a CC+ class than at OU.

"Furthermore, there is a small dip in students who are staying at the university for four years, which also affects revenue."

“Ohio University has maintained four-year retention rates between 66 and 69% since 2010 and has a record-high 81.5% retention rate for second-year students in the Fall of 2019,” Jim Sabin, a university spokesperson, said in an email. “While we have seen a slight increase in the three-year graduation rate, it is a very small population.”
Good luck finding someone the University will accredit for teaching CC+ at the schools. My building actually have people who are adjuncts on campus, but the University will not allow them to teach CC+ at the local schools. By State law any college class has to be credited at the highest lGPA level

And are those figures a typo, down almost 5,000 students?
OU is way out of line on CC+ in terms of who in the local high school can teach it and quite hypocritical in granting adjunct status (you can be an adjunct here making pennies but you can't grant CC+ credit on a regular teaching salary). Rio is much friendlier and therefore kids are taking CC+ classes in their local high schools. Because there are so many ways to count students now - on campus, branch campus, CC+, online, undergraduate, graduate, medical college, etc., it's really tough to get a number. The Dispatch quoted the OU spokesperson as saying 33,000 in an article last week. All I know is that Athens isn't as crowded this year as it has been in past years. I can pretty much park wherever I want whenever I want.

Interesting my grandson was able to get OU credits while attending Fort Frye high school.
Any idea if he took the classes at OU or at the high school in Beverly? What subject? Do you know who the teacher was?
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