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Ohio Football Recruiting Topic
Topic: Recruiting Smarter
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GoCats105
8/1/2013 12:32 PM
I was listening to Cowherd today and he was interviewing Northwestern's Pat Fitzgerald. He brought up the fact that NW, Stanford, Notre Dame and Vanderbilt all had great seasons recently and are capable of sustaining it easier than before. Because football is becoming more of a thinking man's game instead of just relying on brute strength, those schools with harsher academic restrictions can now recruit the type of caliber players both on and off the field they need.

I'm just wondering if this is a trend we can see going forward and would like to think that Ohio can take advantage of it. We certainly aren't Vanderbilt of NW, but we sure aren't anywhere near the worst academic institution in the FBS.
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L.C.
8/1/2013 1:01 PM
I'm not sure that's it, and I say that as someone that went to both Northwestern and Vanderbilt. I think there have always been smart football players. The problem was that these programs were non-competitive, so players that were both smart and good didn't want to go there. At Northwestern, for example, when they had an outstanding coach, in Ara Parsegian, they managed a 2d place finish in the Big Ten back in the 60s, but they couldn't keep him, and they soon settled back tot he bottom of the conference under John Pont.

I really think that what has turned things around for these teams is revenue sharing from Conferences. They still aren't on an equal footing money-wise with, say Ohio State, but they have a lot more money to spend on athletics than before, and that allows them to be more competitive by retaining good coaches, and by having top-notch facilities.

Ohio is similarly becoming more competitive, but doing it on a much smaller budget. They have managed to retain very good coaches, and I'm not just talking Solich, I'm talking the whole staff, which has very little turnover. They have upgraded facilities in all respects. As a result recruiting is upgrading, and the whole program continues on an uptrend.
Last Edited: 8/1/2013 1:03:18 PM by L.C.
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Antonio Pierce
8/13/2013 5:01 PM
I just saw a tumbleweed pass through here.  What is going on? So quiet.
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RSBobcat
9/1/2013 7:29 PM
I was hoping "Smarter" was the last name of an Off Coordinator candidate....................
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Doc Bobcat
9/1/2013 8:03 PM
After today's game I'm ready for some basketball.

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Jeff McKinney
9/1/2013 11:37 PM
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.
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Casper71
9/2/2013 1:59 AM
I will repeat the consistent message i have always had when talking about OUr recruiting:
We need to recruit more 3 star guysif we really expect to move from where we are right now.  We may have a good game once in a while versus a top opponent but we basically are playing with Top 60-80 talent.  That's fine for the status quo.  But, if we want to be NIU or Toledo (or even WMU this year) we simply MUST recruit better personnel.  Talent (or lack thereof) will only take you so far.  Get better players and coach them up and we move to a Top 50 program.  Continue to recruit the talent we have been getting and the results will be pretty much Top 70 or so.
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Jeff McKinney
9/2/2013 2:11 AM
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.
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Robert Fox
9/2/2013 8:57 AM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
I will repeat the consistent message i have always had when talking about OUr recruiting:
We need to recruit more 3 star guysif we really expect to move from where we are right now.  We may have a good game once in a while versus a top opponent but we basically are playing with Top 60-80 talent.  That's fine for the status quo.  But, if we want to be NIU or Toledo (or even WMU this year) we simply MUST recruit better personnel.  Talent (or lack thereof) will only take you so far.  Get better players and coach them up and we move to a Top 50 program.  Continue to recruit the talent we have been getting and the results will be pretty much Top 70 or so.


You keep posting this same message, but it's puzzling. Do you think our coaches are actively trying NOT to recruit more three star athletes? You are stating the obvious. OF COURSE we need to recruit more, better athletes. Obviously, that takes more than simply wanting to.
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Casper71
9/2/2013 11:27 AM
Obviously we are 8-9 years into a stable successful program.  We should be able to get more of the 3-star type guys.  Look, Toledo and even WMU with a NEW coaching staff.  I believe it is a philosophy OR all the better we can do.  If the philosophy is under the radar guys and develop them...good luck on getting any better and really competing.  If it is the best we can do after being as good as we have been the last 8 years, go to 1-AA.
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Robert Fox
9/2/2013 12:41 PM
I think you're putting to much stock in the "star" rating system. Yes, teams like Louisville recruit better than Ohio. But WMU and Toledo? I'd say the distinction among those programs is far less clear cut. Overall, our recruiting classes compare fairly well with other MAC programs, even the top MAC programs.

Clearly the coaches will always get the very best players possible. If you believe otherwise, I'd say you have lost confidence in this coaching staff. Nothing wrong with that, but call it like it is. It's simply not realistic to believe our coaches are purposely turning down "better" talent.

Dropping to IAA is not an option. It's not even a realistic outcome. What's the last IA team to drop to IAA? How often does that happen? If it were a viable option, you'd see teams doing it all the time.
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TWT
9/5/2013 11:12 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.


We need more athletic personnel? Are you basing this observation on losing to #8 ranked Louisville 49-7 and making the inference the loss was based on poor talent? How about Cincinnati clobbering Purdue 42-7 last weekend? The only inference I can make for sure is that Ohio's talent is probably no worse than Purdue's. The problem is not that we don't have enough talent to win the MAC. The problem is we don't have enough talent to be a Top 10 team. If you want to pull a Louisville and start recruiting like an ACC program its going to require better facilities. The current developmental phase of our program has our team going to a slew of bowl games an putting players into the NFL. Peden Tower has been transformed into a football operations center on par with those built by programs around the country. The Carin Center has been open since 99' and a new IPF is under construction. The key missing (and attainable) piece that Louisville has and we don't is an NFL caliber stadium. A stadium designed to support long concession lines and visually striking (fun to sit in). It doesn't have to be a lot of seats necessarily, it just has to feel like the pro experience to justify more expensive tickets and be more competitive with BCS schools.
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Robert Fox
9/6/2013 9:08 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.


We need more athletic personnel? Are you basing this observation on losing to #8 ranked Louisville 49-7 and making the inference the loss was based on poor talent? How about Cincinnati clobbering Purdue 42-7 last weekend? The only inference I can make for sure is that Ohio's talent is probably no worse than Purdue's. The problem is not that we don't have enough talent to win the MAC. The problem is we don't have enough talent to be a Top 10 team. If you want to pull a Louisville and start recruiting like an ACC program its going to require better facilities. The current developmental phase of our program has our team going to a slew of bowl games an putting players into the NFL. Peden Tower has been transformed into a football operations center on par with those built by programs around the country. The Carin Center has been open since 99' and a new IPF is under construction. The key missing (and attainable) piece that Louisville has and we don't is an NFL caliber stadium. A stadium designed to support long concession lines and visually striking (fun to sit in). It doesn't have to be a lot of seats necessarily, it just has to feel like the pro experience to justify more expensive tickets and be more competitive with BCS schools.


My complaint with UL's stadium is exactly what you are describing. It felt like a pro stadium. Lots of beer, extremely loud sound system that effectively drowned out both bands, even an NFL-like dance team that got the testosterone pumping.

What it didn't feel like was a college football game day experience. I didn't feel like I was on a college campus (don't know if the stadium is on municipal land). Much closer to a Bengals game day experience. On the walk back to the car, a retaining wall along the road was covered in a beer bottles. This all sounds like I'm being prudish. I don't mind alcohol sales in the stadium. But the overall experience was a bit too "pro" level for me. I like the college atmosphere, and much of that experience was missing on Sunday.
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TWT
9/6/2013 2:25 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.


We need more athletic personnel? Are you basing this observation on losing to #8 ranked Louisville 49-7 and making the inference the loss was based on poor talent? How about Cincinnati clobbering Purdue 42-7 last weekend? The only inference I can make for sure is that Ohio's talent is probably no worse than Purdue's. The problem is not that we don't have enough talent to win the MAC. The problem is we don't have enough talent to be a Top 10 team. If you want to pull a Louisville and start recruiting like an ACC program its going to require better facilities. The current developmental phase of our program has our team going to a slew of bowl games an putting players into the NFL. Peden Tower has been transformed into a football operations center on par with those built by programs around the country. The Carin Center has been open since 99' and a new IPF is under construction. The key missing (and attainable) piece that Louisville has and we don't is an NFL caliber stadium. A stadium designed to support long concession lines and visually striking (fun to sit in). It doesn't have to be a lot of seats necessarily, it just has to feel like the pro experience to justify more expensive tickets and be more competitive with BCS schools.


My complaint with UL's stadium is exactly what you are describing. It felt like a pro stadium. Lots of beer, extremely loud sound system that effectively drowned out both bands, even an NFL-like dance team that got the testosterone pumping.

What it didn't feel like was a college football game day experience. I didn't feel like I was on a college campus (don't know if the stadium is on municipal land). Much closer to a Bengals game day experience. On the walk back to the car, a retaining wall along the road was covered in a beer bottles. This all sounds like I'm being prudish. I don't mind alcohol sales in the stadium. But the overall experience was a bit too "pro" level for me. I like the college atmosphere, and much of that experience was missing on Sunday.


Good points but how else can this program circumvent its lack of tradition and fan support without amplifying the atmosphere with a monster score board, chairback seating ect? An oversized stadium with 24" seating is another way to do it instead of packing everyone in like sardines on the student side. 
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BillyTheCat
9/8/2013 8:23 PM
Wow, we want expansion without excitement???????
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Robert Fox
9/8/2013 8:39 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Wow, we want expansion without excitement???????


Not sure what you're talking about.
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Bcat2
11/12/2013 8:12 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.


We need more athletic personnel? Are you basing this observation on losing to #8 ranked Louisville 49-7 and making the inference the loss was based on poor talent? How about Cincinnati clobbering Purdue 42-7 last weekend? The only inference I can make for sure is that Ohio's talent is probably no worse than Purdue's. The problem is not that we don't have enough talent to win the MAC. The problem is we don't have enough talent to be a Top 10 team. If you want to pull a Louisville and start recruiting like an ACC program its going to require better facilities. The current developmental phase of our program has our team going to a slew of bowl games an putting players into the NFL. Peden Tower has been transformed into a football operations center on par with those built by programs around the country. The Carin Center has been open since 99' and a new IPF is under construction. The key missing (and attainable) piece that Louisville has and we don't is an NFL caliber stadium. A stadium designed to support long concession lines and visually striking (fun to sit in). It doesn't have to be a lot of seats necessarily, it just has to feel like the pro experience to justify more expensive tickets and be more competitive with BCS schools.


My complaint with UL's stadium is exactly what you are describing. It felt like a pro stadium. Lots of beer, extremely loud sound system that effectively drowned out both bands, even an NFL-like dance team that got the testosterone pumping.

What it didn't feel like was a college football game day experience. I didn't feel like I was on a college campus (don't know if the stadium is on municipal land). Much closer to a Bengals game day experience. On the walk back to the car, a retaining wall along the road was covered in a beer bottles. This all sounds like I'm being prudish. I don't mind alcohol sales in the stadium. But the overall experience was a bit too "pro" level for me. I like the college atmosphere, and much of that experience was missing on Sunday.


Good points but how else can this program circumvent its lack of tradition and fan support without amplifying the atmosphere with a monster score board, chairback seating ect? An oversized stadium with 24" seating is another way to do it instead of packing everyone in like sardines on the student side. 


Well, first, you don't circumvent a "lack of tradition and fan support." Over time you build tradition and fan support.  Ohio's traditions are being built. Every time, after a game, the players and the 110 get together and celebrate, the roots of tradition get deeper. Every time a class graduates who's only memories are of winning seasons, fan support and Bobcat pride is built.  These things do take time. 
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TWT
11/12/2013 7:02 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
We need more athletic personnel.  Easier said than done.


We need more athletic personnel? Are you basing this observation on losing to #8 ranked Louisville 49-7 and making the inference the loss was based on poor talent? How about Cincinnati clobbering Purdue 42-7 last weekend? The only inference I can make for sure is that Ohio's talent is probably no worse than Purdue's. The problem is not that we don't have enough talent to win the MAC. The problem is we don't have enough talent to be a Top 10 team. If you want to pull a Louisville and start recruiting like an ACC program its going to require better facilities. The current developmental phase of our program has our team going to a slew of bowl games an putting players into the NFL. Peden Tower has been transformed into a football operations center on par with those built by programs around the country. The Carin Center has been open since 99' and a new IPF is under construction. The key missing (and attainable) piece that Louisville has and we don't is an NFL caliber stadium. A stadium designed to support long concession lines and visually striking (fun to sit in). It doesn't have to be a lot of seats necessarily, it just has to feel like the pro experience to justify more expensive tickets and be more competitive with BCS schools.


My complaint with UL's stadium is exactly what you are describing. It felt like a pro stadium. Lots of beer, extremely loud sound system that effectively drowned out both bands, even an NFL-like dance team that got the testosterone pumping.

What it didn't feel like was a college football game day experience. I didn't feel like I was on a college campus (don't know if the stadium is on municipal land). Much closer to a Bengals game day experience. On the walk back to the car, a retaining wall along the road was covered in a beer bottles. This all sounds like I'm being prudish. I don't mind alcohol sales in the stadium. But the overall experience was a bit too "pro" level for me. I like the college atmosphere, and much of that experience was missing on Sunday.


Good points but how else can this program circumvent its lack of tradition and fan support without amplifying the atmosphere with a monster score board, chairback seating ect? An oversized stadium with 24" seating is another way to do it instead of packing everyone in like sardines on the student side. 


Well, first, you don't circumvent a "lack of tradition and fan support." Over time you build tradition and fan support.  Ohio's traditions are being built. Every time, after a game, the players and the 110 get together and celebrate, the roots of tradition get deeper. Every time a class graduates who's only memories are of winning seasons, fan support and Bobcat pride is built.  These things do take time. 

I was thinking Louisville with my comments at the time. I can remember talking to someone at a sports bar back in 2008 who was a big college football fan about whether Utah, BYU and Boise could continue on its winning ways. What he told me is those schools have a lot tradition, an answer which surprised me. Marshall had about a 10 year run of playing very good football 92'-02' and followed it up an enlarged stadium and higher profile conference. Regardless that for decades Marshall had a terrible program for decades. For none of their fans that matters. The public usually takes a look at the footprint that a program has on ESPN and national TV to gage the level its at because when they see a school playing often on mid week like Boise State or Cincinnati that puts a school in the same category. Take basketball. People see Memphis, Xavier and Gonzaga mid week ESPN along with Kentucky and Michigan State and people assume their part of the big time. The mechanics behind the scene like the TV money, difference in arena sizes ect. aren't understood by 95% of the people tuning in.
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