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Ohio Football Recruiting Topic
Topic: Roger Lewis
Page: 11 of 12
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Robert Fox
1/9/2014 7:15 PM
Monroe,
Are you actively trying to drive people away from this message board? I can think of no other point to your endless campaign.
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bobcatsquared
1/9/2014 8:08 PM
Several call that the Monroe Doctrine. As his post count soars, others' stagnate.

BIGMANZ!
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Robert Fox
1/9/2014 9:32 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Several call that the Monroe Doctrine. As his post count soars, others' stagnate.

BIGMANZ!


LOL!
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Casper71
1/9/2014 9:36 PM
Just to reiterate, I do NOT think you are reading my posts completely.  We both agree Basham got PT not because he was a 5 star guy but because the upper class guys got beat out (which means they were not good options I guess, although I thought there was an injury somewhere) and the kid was a hidden gem with talent.  So, my first deduction was correct...we did not have older guys who were good options and we were forced to burn the red shirt.

Second point, I only looked at Winston the FSU QB.   He was a 5 Star recruit.  I didn't go any further down the list but I repeat my opinion that many of the guys on that frosh all america list are probably 4-5 star guys.  They had talent which was identified and should have played from day one anywhere.  On the other hand, our staff identified the proverbial diamond in the rough for which I think we are all very happy.  He was obviously a good get for OHIO and a guy others overlooked.  We just need a whole lot more like him since we aren't going to get many 4-5 star guys.  In nine years, to the best of my recollection, he is the first ever for OHIO to make the Frosh All Am team.
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Paul Graham
1/9/2014 10:08 PM
No one denies that Basham is a great young player. I'm not sure why that's supposed to change my mind about the glacial progress of recruiting under Solich.
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Jerry86
1/9/2014 11:35 PM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Monroe,
Are you actively trying to drive people away from this message board? I can think of no other point to your endless campaign.


Wish we had an "Ignore" button as many sites do. What's sad is how little he truly comprehends about football.

Uhh, let's compate Solich to Grobe to Knorr to Lichtenburg to Bryant to Burke to ....................
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Jerry86
1/9/2014 11:42 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
And once you get to butting heads nine years in you shouldn't get whupped but good by almost all of the teams on your sched that aren't 'the worst', but most of which aren't really very good/not good enough to win a bowl game.


Pick a conference .. pick a team. Let's start with Big 10. Don't 'top' teams have off years from time to time? Same in MAC.
Last Edited: 1/9/2014 11:43:13 PM by Jerry86
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Monroe Slavin
1/10/2014 12:08 AM
It,s okay if you don,t like me or enjoy chiding me.  

But ignoring reality is weak.   

we,ve been a top MAC team?  tell me your standard.

Then how does 'top' fit with 9-9 over the last 18 with most of our wins over weak and see our avg yds per carry for and against in our losses this year.

i.ll accept that the future can be better.  But don,t delude yourselves about the current status.


Try this.  Rewatch the 2nd half of the Buffalo game this year, considering the stakes of the game.
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Paul Graham
1/10/2014 12:31 AM
Jerry86 wrote:expand_more
And once you get to butting heads nine years in you shouldn't get whupped but good by almost all of the teams on your sched that aren't 'the worst', but most of which aren't really very good/not good enough to win a bowl game.


Pick a conference .. pick a team. Let's start with Big 10. Don't 'top' teams have off years from time to time? Same in MAC.


Ummmm. When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to a 4-8 team by 30 points at home?

When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to another B10 team by 50 points?

Something is rotten in this program...and Monroe is right to keep at it.
Last Edited: 1/10/2014 12:31:42 AM by Paul Graham
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Bcat2
1/10/2014 8:46 AM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
And once you get to butting heads nine years in you shouldn't get whupped but good by almost all of the teams on your sched that aren't 'the worst', but most of which aren't really very good/not good enough to win a bowl game.


Pick a conference .. pick a team. Let's start with Big 10. Don't 'top' teams have off years from time to time? Same in MAC.


Um, mmm. When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to a 4-8 team by 30 points at home?

When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to another B10 team by 50 points?

Something is rotten in this program...and Monroe is right to keep at it.
Paul, sorry, you don't get to pull out OSU or Wisconsin. They have been the rich getting richer for too long. Since 2006 Ohio has won 62 games, second most in the MAC during that time behind NIU. There have been ups and downs, more ups. The trend is for higher highs and the lows are not as low. Seeing this would require a long term view. Again, since 06, second most wins in the MAC, six ahead of number three CMU. Five straight bowls, two bowl wins, scoreboard on Penn State. This season included some disappointments, but, with the youngsters returning led by Crutch, Daz, Chase, McCleod, Vick, Kristoff, Russell, Carpenter, Lucas, Jovon, Bass, Basham and Smith I just don't get hosting daily pity parties.
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Bcat2
1/10/2014 9:07 AM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Just to reiterate, I do NOT think you are reading my posts completely. We both agree Basham got PT not because he was a 5 star guy but because the upper class guys got beat out (which means they were not good options I guess, although I thought there was an injury somewhere) and the kid was a hidden gem with talent. So, my first deduction was correct...we did not have older guys who were good options and we were forced to burn the red shirt.

Second point, I only looked at Winston the FSU QB. He was a 5 Star recruit. I didn't go any further down the list but I repeat my opinion that many of the guys on that frosh all america list are probably 4-5 star guys. They had talent which was identified and should have played from day one anywhere. On the other hand, our staff identified the proverbial diamond in the rough for which I think we are all very happy. He was obviously a good get for OHIO and a guy others overlooked. We just need a whole lot more like him since we aren't going to get many 4-5 star guys. In nine years, to the best of my recollection, he is the first ever for OHIO to make the Frosh All Am team.
Casper71, you did not get my point at all. I will try again. Kendrick Smith and Nick Barber had played in over 30 games between them and I totally disagree with your assertion that they were/are "not good options." Basham himself forced the coaches to burn his redshirt by being a four star player with a two star rating. You get a Freshman All- American athlete, you play him, that is why others on the team are from FSU, AU, MSU, Okla etc. Basham is further proof that star ratings are a weak way to evaluate players. Fortunately Ohio's coaches work harder than most.
Last Edited: 1/10/2014 9:11:02 AM by Bcat2
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L.C.
1/10/2014 9:54 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
It,s okay if you don,t like me or enjoy chiding me.  

But ignoring reality is weak.   

we,ve been a top MAC team?  tell me your standard...
Of course Ohio has been a top MAC team. What MAC teams have won a higher percentage of MAC games over the last five years than Ohio? NIU, and probably no one else. To deny that Ohio has been a top MAC team, you have to ignore reality, and as you point out, that's weak.

Last year's team was one of the worst at Ohio under Solich. The fact is that some teams are better than others. What changed between 2011 and 2013? The coaches? Or the players? Which will be here in 2014 and 2015? The players from 2013, or the coaches from 2011?

When a down year is a team with a winning record that goes to a bowl, why is that a disaster, especially when you can see undeniable improvements in recruiting that promise better years ahead?
Last Edited: 1/10/2014 10:00:46 AM by L.C.
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Monroe Slavin
1/10/2014 10:25 AM
Again, tell me your standard.  First, MAC only is kinda a weak standard since about half of the conference each year is among the worst teams in America.  Then, I don't see overall winning percentage as a real good standard since teams having good and bad years allow a slightly over .500 team to look good.  How about MAC titles and, given that there are 3-6 gimmes a year on our sched, 10 win seasons.

Referring to all the guys who will return next season--what did any of them do over the last 18 games?

Hope that we'll be better next year?   Okay.  Calling performance over the last 18 games in any way satisfactory?  To me, that's willing to accept mediocrity.  18 games is a lot of games.



 
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Doc Bobcat
1/10/2014 10:35 AM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Just to reiterate, I do NOT think you are reading my posts completely. We both agree Basham got PT not because he was a 5 star guy but because the upper class guys got beat out (which means they were not good options I guess, although I thought there was an injury somewhere) and the kid was a hidden gem with talent. So, my first deduction was correct...we did not have older guys who were good options and we were forced to burn the red shirt.

Second point, I only looked at Winston the FSU QB. He was a 5 Star recruit. I didn't go any further down the list but I repeat my opinion that many of the guys on that frosh all america list are probably 4-5 star guys. They had talent which was identified and should have played from day one anywhere. On the other hand, our staff identified the proverbial diamond in the rough for which I think we are all very happy. He was obviously a good get for OHIO and a guy others overlooked. We just need a whole lot more like him since we aren't going to get many 4-5 star guys. In nine years, to the best of my recollection, he is the first ever for OHIO to make the Frosh All Am team.
Casper71, you did not get my point at all. I will try again. Kendrick Smith and Nick Barber had played in over 30 games between them and I totally disagree with your assertion that they were/are "not good options." Basham himself forced the coaches to burn his redshirt by being a four star player with a two star rating. You get a Freshman All- American athlete, you play him, that is why others on the team are from FSU, AU, MSU, Okla etc. Basham is further proof that star ratings are a weak way to evaluate players. Fortunately Ohio's coaches work harder than most.
OUr D-line should be deep and thanks to players like Basham somewhat talented as we'll. At least 4 players who played a bunch last year makes an excellent rotation plan. Add redshirt frosh Trent Smart and hopefully you have injury protection. The interior D-line looks even better with 5 guys returning.....2 redshirt freshman... And 365 pound JUCO Clark.

I'm just a strong believer in line strength. OUr O-line will have fewer starters but quite a few guys played last year so keeping my fingers crossed on that one.

I just don't get all the excessive wailing and gnashing of teeth.
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L.C.
1/10/2014 11:50 AM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Again, tell me your standard.  First, MAC only is kinda a weak standard since about half of the conference each year is among the worst teams in America.  Then, I don't see overall winning percentage as a real good standard ... 
For the test "a top MAC team", what is more logical than ovetall winning percentage in MAC games? Now you seem to be backing off, Monroe, and saying "OK, they have been a top team in the MAC, but that's not good enough". I'm sorry that you feel that way, but until Ohio moves to another conference, which they may never do, being a "top team in the MAC" is an appropriate goal.

Monroe, there will be better teams and worse teams, and good times and worse times. You hand selected that time period to make things look as bad as possible. How was the period of, say, 20 games that preceeded the 18 you point out?

As an example that shows the clear fallacy of you way of thinking, consider the career of one Bob Devaney. After a nice start to his coaching time at Nebraska, and after turning them from losers to winners, he hit a period where he went 7-7-1. Timr to fire him? Some thought so. But if Nebraska had fired him, would they have won National Championships in 1970 and 1971?

Never drive while looking in the rear view mirror. Always look at what is ahead of you. If you think the cupboard is empty, and the future looks grim, that's your perogative. I don't, and I've told you why, so it's your turn.

 
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Casper71
1/10/2014 12:45 PM
I agree OHIO is now a "Top" MAC program.  This year, however, even according to USA today our report card is a "C".  While being a Top program is one goal, I have to believe winning one MACC every 10 years should be/is another reasonable goal. 

Let's hope we achieve that goal next year 'cause this staff has 9 years in the books now without reaching the pinnacle!
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L.C.
1/10/2014 2:50 PM
I have no disagreement with you, Casper.
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Jerry86
1/10/2014 11:46 PM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
And once you get to butting heads nine years in you shouldn't get whupped but good by almost all of the teams on your sched that aren't 'the worst', but most of which aren't really very good/not good enough to win a bowl game.


Pick a conference .. pick a team. Let's start with Big 10. Don't 'top' teams have off years from time to time? Same in MAC.


Ummmm. When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to a 4-8 team by 30 points at home?

When was the last time OSU or Wisconsin lost to another B10 team by 50 points?

Something is rotten in this program...and Monroe is right to keep at it.


Ahhhh, don't answer the most basic question I asked of you.  Look at the last 55 years. Solich has failed? If you truly feel that then I question if you actually graduated from Ohio.

And what is rotten in our program? Do you want Cleve back? Lichty? Burke? Knorr?
Last Edited: 1/10/2014 11:48:34 PM by Jerry86
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Jerry86
1/10/2014 11:56 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
It,s okay if you don,t like me or enjoy chiding me.  

But ignoring reality is weak.   

we,ve been a top MAC team?  tell me your standard.

Then how does 'top' fit with 9-9 over the last 18 with most of our wins over weak and see our avg yds per carry for and against in our losses this year.

i.ll accept that the future can be better.  But don,t delude yourselves about the current status.


Try this.  Rewatch the 2nd half of the Buffalo game this year, considering the stakes of the game.


Yeah, we have been a 'top' MAC team in recent years. Deal with reality.

So one game (Buffalo) makes a season?

Sorry, you picked the wrong guy to try to throw stats at3 degrees in Stats oriented areas.. So you wanna cherry pick the last 18 games? Why not take Solich's entire career at Ohio?

Your prolific number of posts equate to quantity ... that says nothing about quality.

So losing Ty Branz, Prior, Carrie hurt all year and more had no impact on our season? If you believe that you know even less than I thought about football.
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Monroe Slavin
1/11/2014 12:57 PM
Every team has injuries.  It's about our recent record.  (If you do want to take all of Solich, then tell me where the MAC title is.)

Now, re-watch the BG game and tell me what you see.
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L.C.
1/11/2014 1:39 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Every team has injuries.  It's about our recent record.  (If you do want to take all of Solich, then tell me where the MAC title is.)

Now, re-watch the BG game and tell me what you see.
To say that "Every team has injures" and stop there is misleading, as you know. Most teams have a season ending injury, and perhaps one or two others out due to injury in any given game. I have never seen any team, ever, with as many season ending and career ending injuries as the 2012 Bobcats. Fine. Watch the BG game again. Now watch a game before that devastating string of injuries, say the Penn State game. 

Now put both behind and remember that next year will be an all new team, made of players, only a very few of which played against Penn State. Will that team have a character like the 2006 Bobcats? Like 2009? Or like 2013? Why?

Bad losses have been rare under Solich. Why would you presume that the future will be like the one year with several bad losses, rather than like all the other years? The answer seems to be that you want it to be because it suits your agenda.
Last Edited: 1/11/2014 1:41:52 PM by L.C.
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Paul Graham
1/11/2014 2:06 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
Every team has injuries.  It's about our recent record.  (If you do want to take all of Solich, then tell me where the MAC title is.)

Now, re-watch the BG game and tell me what you see.

1-8

That is Ohio's record the past two years against MAC teams with four or more wins. And that lone win came against a 4-8 Buffalo team.

We haven't beat a MAC team over 500 since 2011.

Something is wrong.

 
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Doc Bobcat
1/11/2014 2:54 PM
Last year was the suckiest recent year. In 11 we actually beat BG.... Marshall ....CMU...and Kent.....12 was the great Penn St win and then
Marshall and Buffalo but after that the tires fell off.
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Monroe Slavin
1/11/2014 5:27 PM
Doc Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Last year was the suckiest recent year. In 11 we actually beat BG.... Marshall ....CMU...and Kent.....12 was the great Penn St win and then
Marshall and Buffalo but after that the tires fell off.


Doc--That is all that I'm trying to say.  Why are people so offended when I basically say the same thing?  And why can't they admit what is obvious?

Then, I say that the last year and a half (starting with 'after that the tires fell off') is such as to make me worried, though hopeful as always, about next year.


I invite all to throw darts at me, though, instead of taking a reasonably objective look at what we have been lately and the questions that should raise.



 
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Robert Fox
1/11/2014 6:57 PM
Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more

Doc--That is all that I'm trying to say.  Why are people so offended when I basically say the same thing?  And why can't they admit what is obvious?

[/QUOTE]

Gee, I don't know, maybe because you say it continuously, as in over and over and over and over...? And maybe because people suspect you have an undefined agenda?

[QUOTE=Monroe Slavin]

I invite all to throw darts at me, though, instead of taking a reasonably objective look at what we have been lately and the questions that should raise.


What questions does it raise? Why don't you ask those questions directly instead of beating around the bush?
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