Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Official Game 4 Thread: UMass
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OUcats82
9/26/2018 10:01 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
3rd down ... 3rd down ... 3rd down.

Huge key to game.

Ohio offense is 108th in country in 3rd down conversions at 33%. Pretty bad

But you know what's worse. Ohio's defense on third down. It's literally the worst in the country. 129th. Gross. They allow teams a staggering 59% success rate on third down.

If that doesn't change ... you don't beat UMass or UMarietta. Awful.
3rd downs have been brutal to watch-especially on defense. 3rd and longs have been less than inspiring.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
9/26/2018 10:36 AM
This defense reminds me of Brian Knorr's first year and the D handled by Tim Kish. playing huge cushions off of receivers and getting picked apart by short passes. unable to get off the field on any 3rd down, no matter how long. Still managing to get burned deep in 3rd and long situations.

I'm sure Cincy has a decent O-line since they are a good running team, but are they amazing pass blockers too? we got NO Pressure saturday. even if you give a bad quarterback that much time, he's going to find somebody.
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J.B.Hoy
9/26/2018 10:49 AM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
... playing huge cushions off of receivers and getting picked apart by short passes. unable to get off the field on any 3rd down, no matter how long. Still managing to get burned deep in 3rd and long situations.
DCF, you said it... drives me to drink to watch the huge cushion AND getting burned deep. Luckily I like to drink.
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bshot44
9/26/2018 11:36 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
But you know what's worse. Ohio's defense on third down. It's literally the worst in the country. 129th. Gross. They allow teams a staggering 59% success rate on third down.
The defense actually had a key 3rd stop down while holding on to a slim lead in the 4th quarter. . . actually UC stopped itself when the wide open receiver slipped and fell as the pass fell to the ground . . . actually Ohio shot itself in the foot with a personal foul on the play that gave UC the first down anyways, keeping alive a critical possession that ended with a touchdown.
Yup! And that 77-yard TD pass to start 3Q ... that came on 3rd and 12.  😝😝😝😝
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bshot44
9/26/2018 11:52 AM
The most disturbing thing about 3rd down defense .... Ohio was 9th in the country last year allowing only 29.9%

Amazing how you can go from that to what we're seeing this year!

I know, the personnel is drastically different in spots ... but, man, that is one serious drop in production.
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Ted Thompson
9/26/2018 12:02 PM

In the second half, UC figured out that Ohio was not going to cover the tight end. It was available every time. So there was almost no chance Ohio was going to get a stop on defense.

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L.C.
9/26/2018 12:11 PM
shabamon wrote:expand_more
Wow, whoever that was that Lowery tried to block blew the play up. Drove Lowery into Meservy's path. Almost everyone else was blocked well. If Meservy was able to get to #8, it's just a one on one of Ouellette going full speed on the safety.

Lowery blocked down, and a linebacker/safety blitzed through the gap between him and the TE. I presume that was who Meservy should have trap blocked, but as you said, he couldn't get there. The entire Ohio line, however, was pushed backwards. Not one Ohio lineman drove forward into the endzone, so I doubt sneak would have worked, either, though obviously it wouldn't have lost yardage.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
9/26/2018 12:14 PM
I will say this, if anything is leading us to problems this year is our linebacker core. I get it, our corners aren't doing the job. But the last few years the linebacker core had covered a lot of ground and filled gaps like no other in our defense. I remember when the linebacker core was out at BGSU a few years back and we got stomped for 60 points. If anything, that group covers for a lot of sins committed by our defense. With no linebackers, you're finding out the value of the corners and d-line.
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bshot44
9/26/2018 12:23 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Wow, whoever that was that Lowery tried to block blew the play up. Drove Lowery into Meservy's path. Almost everyone else was blocked well. If Meservy was able to get to #8, it's just a one on one of Ouellette going full speed on the safety.

Lowery blocked down, and a linebacker/safety blitzed through the gap between him and the TE. I presume that was who Meservy should have trap blocked, but as you said, he couldn't get there. The entire Ohio line, however, was pushed backwards. Not one Ohio lineman drove forward into the endzone, so I doubt sneak would have worked, either, though obviously it wouldn't have lost yardage.
You are right ... the O-line got blown up on that play.

But you'd have to think .... that during the UC timeout before that play ... If Ohio would've said "We're running QB sneak ... we need one-inch to win!" And maybe coached them up a bit ... maybe some adrenaline could've made the difference?

Instead, they come out with the exact same play. Subconsciously, Ohio is thinking we just need to do the same thing we did on the last play and it's an easy TD.

While UC sees THE EXACT SAME formation and starts foaming at the mouth, knowing what's coming.

Regardless of my most likely stupid theory .... this was plain and simple ... UC wanted it more on that play.

They won the battle at the line of scrimmage and it ended up deciding that game.

As Al Pacino said ... football is a game of inches. Ohio gave up that inch and it cost them the game.
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GoCats105
9/26/2018 2:56 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I will say this, if anything is leading us to problems this year is our linebacker core. I get it, our corners aren't doing the job. But the last few years the linebacker core had covered a lot of ground and filled gaps like no other in our defense. I remember when the linebacker core was out at BGSU a few years back and we got stomped for 60 points. If anything, that group covers for a lot of sins committed by our defense. With no linebackers, you're finding out the value of the corners and d-line.
You can't lose a guy like Poling and somehow not take a drop off. I don't care how talented the guy behind him is. Not to mention losing Chad Moore and Blair Brown recently as well.
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D.A.
9/26/2018 5:27 PM
Steve1981 wrote:expand_more
https://twitter.com/i/status/1044708894256312321

Have you guys heard of Jennifer Brodeur, she is our head football athletic trainer. She was accepted during the summer to a program at Ohio and then went through the four year program. The link above is a tweeter video of her.

Of course you could guess, who will be qb will be a game day decision.
Hey Steve, Jen has been a solid supporter of our NewEngland Alimni Chapter, high quality individual and you’re lucky to have her on staff.
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Rufusbobcat94
9/26/2018 6:09 PM
Coaches make mistakes, being accountable for those mistakes is the sign of leadership,, regardless the execution by the players has to improve. [/QUOTE]Well put.
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L.C.
9/26/2018 6:49 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Wow, whoever that was that Lowery tried to block blew the play up. Drove Lowery into Meservy's path. Almost everyone else was blocked well. If Meservy was able to get to #8, it's just a one on one of Ouellette going full speed on the safety.

Lowery blocked down, and a linebacker/safety blitzed through the gap between him and the TE. I presume that was who Meservy should have trap blocked, but as you said, he couldn't get there. The entire Ohio line, however, was pushed backwards. Not one Ohio lineman drove forward into the endzone, so I doubt sneak would have worked, either, though obviously it wouldn't have lost yardage.
You are right ... the O-line got blown up on that play.

But you'd have to think .... that during the UC timeout before that play ... If Ohio would've said "We're running QB sneak ... we need one-inch to win!" And maybe coached them up a bit ... maybe some adrenaline could've made the difference?

Instead, they come out with the exact same play. Subconsciously, Ohio is thinking we just need to do the same thing we did on the last play and it's an easy TD.

While UC sees THE EXACT SAME formation and starts foaming at the mouth, knowing what's coming.

Regardless of my most likely stupid theory .... this was plain and simple ... UC wanted it more on that play.

They won the battle at the line of scrimmage and it ended up deciding that game.

As Al Pacino said ... football is a game of inches. Ohio gave up that inch and it cost them the game.

I have always said that play calling is easy when you control the line of scrimmage, because then everything works. Conversely, play calling is difficult when you don't, because nothing works, or at least, nothing reliably works.

Ohio has scored more than a few TDs on trap blocks over the years. I have pointed them out in the highlights at least a few times. I think, though, that most of them have been from the 5-8 yard line, not the 1.
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Pataskala
9/27/2018 10:02 AM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I will say this, if anything is leading us to problems this year is our linebacker core. I get it, our corners aren't doing the job. But the last few years the linebacker core had covered a lot of ground and filled gaps like no other in our defense. I remember when the linebacker core was out at BGSU a few years back and we got stomped for 60 points. If anything, that group covers for a lot of sins committed by our defense. With no linebackers, you're finding out the value of the corners and d-line.
The entire front seven is a problem. Just 4 sacks in three games, 102nd in 1A. Little pressure on the opposing QB, so the receivers have enough time to get open. There's also poor tackling and coverage technique generally on defense. Lots of missed tackles and there have been several little flair passes that have gone for big gainers (including the last TD vs UVA) because defenders missed tackles or covered at the wrong angle.
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bshot44
9/27/2018 10:24 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Ohio has scored more than a few TDs on trap blocks over the years. I have pointed them out in the highlights at least a few times. I think, though, that most of them have been from the 5-8 yard line, not the 1.
Yessir. You are 100% correct ... trap block plays have been successful over the years. But as you stated, not from the 1-inch line.

That's where my problem lies. How, considering the circumstances, can you make that play call .... especially after you ran the EXACT same play the play before. That's super troubling for a coaching staff that has the experience they do ... and the fact they've been together for 14 years with Ohio. It's almost like Keystone Cops sometimes over there. I'd expect that sort of mishap from a young coaching staff that doesn't have a lot of experience ...

If they had ran a traditional smashmouth, downhill blocking running play or a QB sneak (which is the obvious play ... Solich afterwards admitted so) and they got stuffed ... that's one thing. I can (somewhat) live with that. Would be disappointing the didn't stuff it in ....

But to run a play that leaves you open for the type of result they got is just baffling. And this comes as the cherry on top of a performance where you put up 21 points in the first quarter and a half .... and then scuffled to just 6 points the rest of the way.
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Pataskala
9/27/2018 12:22 PM
Until this year, I don't think Ohio has had three straight games where each team scored 30+ points. Given what happened last year, this could be four straight. But there's also an opportunity here for the D to finally get on track. Until last week vs Charlotte (which beat ODU, which beat VaTech), UMass had not scored more than 24 pts vs a 1A team this year. And none of their losses have been close (34, 21, & 39-pt margins). The D needs to give 60 minutes vs UMass like they had for the first half vs Cincy.
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bshot44
9/27/2018 1:05 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Until this year, I don't think Ohio has had three straight games where each team scored 30+ points. Given what happened last year, this could be four straight. But there's also an opportunity here for the D to finally get on track. Until last week vs Charlotte (which beat ODU, which beat VaTech), UMass had not scored more than 24 pts vs a 1A team this year. And none of their losses have been close (34, 21, & 39-pt margins). The D needs to give 60 minutes vs UMass like they had for the first half vs Cincy.
35
28
7
21
13

Those were point totals of 2017 0-5 UMass team before facing Ohio.

They dropped 50 on Ohio.

Just the facts.
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PhiTau74
9/27/2018 1:31 PM
I honestly expected them to bring in Maxwell and run a sneak not once but twice or fake it the second time.
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L.C.
9/27/2018 4:39 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Ohio has scored more than a few TDs on trap blocks over the years. I have pointed them out in the highlights at least a few times. I think, though, that most of them have been from the 5-8 yard line, not the 1.
Yessir. You are 100% correct ... trap block plays have been successful over the years. But as you stated, not from the 1-inch line.

That's where my problem lies. How, considering the circumstances, can you make that play call .... especially after you ran the EXACT same play the play before. That's super troubling for a coaching staff that has the experience they do ... and the fact they've been together for 14 years with Ohio. It's almost like Keystone Cops sometimes over there. I'd expect that sort of mishap from a young coaching staff that doesn't have a lot of experience ...

If they had ran a traditional smashmouth, downhill blocking running play or a QB sneak (which is the obvious play ... Solich afterwards admitted so) and they got stuffed ... that's one thing. I can (somewhat) live with that. Would be disappointing the didn't stuff it in ....

But to run a play that leaves you open for the type of result they got is just baffling. And this comes as the cherry on top of a performance where you put up 21 points in the first quarter and a half .... and then scuffled to just 6 points the rest of the way.

It's worth pointing out that Red Zone Offense has been one of the few bright spots for Ohio. That is the only trip this year where Ohio didn't score. Meanwhile problem areas for the offense have been first downs, and 3rd down conversions, and pass efficiency has not been great as a team, despite some great numbers by Maxwell.

By contrast, it's hard to find any bright spots for the defense. In MAC stats, they are last in total defense, pass defense, opponent 3rd down converstion percentage, and pass efficiency defense. They are 2d to last in in scoring defense, and sacks. I guess the bright spot is that they are 5th in rushing defense because, after all, why bother rushing? They are deceptively 5th in total first downs given up, and first in time of possession, because, when you give up so many 1-play drives for TD, there aren't a lot of first downs, nor time of possession.'

With UMass being an efficient passing team, this weekend promises to be, um, well, interesting? Last year Ohio managed to win 58-50. This year the offense is still not as good as last year, and the defense is much worse. I'm going to project a UMass win by the score of 73-42.
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Rufusbobcat94
9/27/2018 6:51 PM
Ohio will win this game by 14-20 points barring a ton of turnovers. Based on the first three games, Ohio has one of the best special teams and offenses in the MAC, even though the offense has not been as consistent as it would like. The defense got scorched in the first half and part of the 2nd half against Howard and the first 20 minutes of Virginia. We lost the virginia game on the basis of the play of the defense in the first 20 minutes. And the overall 3rd down conversion rate against the defense cannot continue. However, there have been a number of signs the defense is improving significantly based on a fair review. Also, there are a number of really positive signs which bode well for the defense in conference. The main issue has been defensive inexperience: the talent is there on defense as is the coaching. Vs Howard, due to injury and graduation, the Bobcats started 8 or 9 players for their first starts on defense. Out of the alarming 645 yards gained by Howard, 100 (15%) was gained on the first 2 plays alone. Out of the total of 645 yards, a full 40%+ of the yards, probably more, can easily be traced to rookie or youth mistakes. When comparing the 1st and 3rd games in terms of defensive performance, improvement is very significant. The linebacker play for all players not named crouch was light years better despite errors in the 4th quarter. Jared Dorsa has improved vastly in just 3 weeks. Right now, the defense has 6 players who are freshman or sophomores who are currently playing who will make an All-MAC two-deep in their careers: Ogun, Evans, Hudson,Dorsa, Caesar, Conner. There are so many factors that go into a units numbers including the play of the other units. In the first half of the Hampton game, the defense was clearly struggling but the offense did not pick up the defense there going an alarming 1-8 in 3rd down conversions. It is no mystery that the defensive numbers looked better vs Cincy as the offense was significantly better in possessing the ball and converting 3rd downs. Much easier to be the 2017 Ohio defense when your offense is averaging 250 yards rushing a game....
Last Edited: 9/27/2018 6:58:46 PM by Rufusbobcat94
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bshot44
9/27/2018 7:37 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I'm going to project a UMass win by the score of 73-42.
Wow! Can't tell if you're drunk ... just given up on this team ... maybe a hacked account?

Either way, this made me chuckle
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L.C.
9/27/2018 7:41 PM
Rufusbobcat94 wrote:expand_more
... It is no mystery that the defensive numbers looked better vs Cincy as the offense was significantly better in possessing the ball and converting 3rd downs. Much easier to be the 2017 Ohio defense when your offense is averaging 250 yards rushing a game.... [/QUOTE]
The only problem with the theory that they have dramatically improved is that the last 40 minutes of football the defense has played is some of the worst of the year. During those 40 minutes they gave up about 450 yards of offense, and failed to get a stop on five tries at 3rd and 7+ yards. During those 40 minutes, Ohio lost 34-9.

Here are the long 3rd down plays during that time:
3rd and 11 at Cin 19, pass complete for 14 yards
3rd and 7 at Cin 48, pass complete for 13 yards
3rd and 12 at Cin 23, pass complete for 77 yards
3rd and 10 at Cin 35, pass complete for 10 yards
3rd and 11 at Ohio 28, pass complete for 14 yards

Here are the UC drives:
9 plays, 80 yards, TD
5 plays, 36 yards, missed FG, had to try as clock was running out
3 plays, 75 yards, TD
3 plays, 4 yards, punt
7 plays, 24 yards, punt
4 plays, 28 yards, TD
5 plays, 71 yards, TD
13 plays, 92 yards, TD
4 plays, 8 yards, end of game

So, in 9 drives, Ohio got two stops, had the clock run out twice, and gave up 5 TDs. I don't see how this is in any ways improved from Howard and UVA, other than the fact that UC doesn't throw the ball as much. U. Mass, however, does throw the ball a lot. That game will show whether the defense has indeed improved.

[QUOTE=L.C.] I'm going to project a UMass win by the score of 73-42.
Wow! Can't tell if you're drunk ... just given up on this team ... maybe a hacked account?

Either way, this made me chuckle

I'm a fan that likes defense. A team like 2006 competed for the MAC with a not-very-good offense because the defense kept them in games. I enjoyed that year very much. By contrast, I can't get excited about a team that gives up 600 yards a game.

I stand by my statement earlier that the team can not compete for the MACC unless the defense gives up ~350 yards a game or less. If the defense starts making some plays, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I do believe that the defense has some talent, so we shall see how it goes.
Last Edited: 9/27/2018 7:50:29 PM by L.C.
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Mark Lembright '85
9/27/2018 8:24 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
... It is no mystery that the defensive numbers looked better vs Cincy as the offense was significantly better in possessing the ball and converting 3rd downs. Much easier to be the 2017 Ohio defense when your offense is averaging 250 yards rushing a game....

The only problem with the theory that they have dramatically improved is that the last 40 minutes of football the defense has played is some of the worst of the year. During those 40 minutes they gave up about 450 yards of offense, and failed to get a stop on five tries at 3rd and 7+ yards. During those 40 minutes, Ohio lost 34-9.

Here are the long 3rd down plays during that time:
3rd and 11 at Cin 19, pass complete for 14 yards
3rd and 7 at Cin 48, pass complete for 13 yards
3rd and 12 at Cin 23, pass complete for 77 yards
3rd and 10 at Cin 35, pass complete for 10 yards
3rd and 11 at Ohio 28, pass complete for 14 yards

Here are the UC drives:
9 plays, 80 yards, TD
5 plays, 36 yards, missed FG, had to try as clock was running out
3 plays, 75 yards, TD
3 plays, 4 yards, punt
7 plays, 24 yards, punt
4 plays, 28 yards, TD
5 plays, 71 yards, TD
13 plays, 92 yards, TD
4 plays, 8 yards, end of game

So, in 9 drives, Ohio got two stops, had the clock run out twice, and gave up 5 TDs. I don't see how this is in any ways improved from Howard and UVA, other than the fact that UC doesn't throw the ball as much. U. Mass, however, does throw the ball a lot. That game will show whether the defense has indeed improved.

I'm going to project a UMass win by the score of 73-42.
Wow! Can't tell if you're drunk ... just given up on this team ... maybe a hacked account?

Either way, this made me chuckle

I'm a fan that likes defense. A team like 2006 competed for the MAC with a not-very-good offense because the defense kept them in games. I enjoyed that year very much. By contrast, I can't get excited about a team that gives up 600 yards a game.

I stand by my statement earlier that the team can not compete for the MACC unless the defense gives up ~350 yards a game or less. If the defense starts making some plays, I will be the first to admit I was wrong. I do believe that the defense has some talent, so we shall see how it goes.
To paraphrase Lyndon Johnson, when you’ve lost L.C., you’ve lost America!
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Steve1981
9/27/2018 8:31 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Ohio has scored more than a few TDs on trap blocks over the years. I have pointed them out in the highlights at least a few times. I think, though, that most of them have been from the 5-8 yard line, not the 1.
Yessir. You are 100% correct ... trap block plays have been successful over the years. But as you stated, not from the 1-inch line.

That's where my problem lies. How, considering the circumstances, can you make that play call .... especially after you ran the EXACT same play the play before. That's super troubling for a coaching staff that has the experience they do ... and the fact they've been together for 14 years with Ohio. It's almost like Keystone Cops sometimes over there. I'd expect that sort of mishap from a young coaching staff that doesn't have a lot of experience ...

If they had ran a traditional smashmouth, downhill blocking running play or a QB sneak (which is the obvious play ... Solich afterwards admitted so) and they got stuffed ... that's one thing. I can (somewhat) live with that. Would be disappointing the didn't stuff it in ....

But to run a play that leaves you open for the type of result they got is just baffling. And this comes as the cherry on top of a performance where you put up 21 points in the first quarter and a half .... and then scuffled to just 6 points the rest of the way.

It's worth pointing out that Red Zone Offense has been one of the few bright spots for Ohio. That is the only trip this year where Ohio didn't score. Meanwhile problem areas for the offense have been first downs, and 3rd down conversions, and pass efficiency has not been great as a team, despite some great numbers by Maxwell.

By contrast, it's hard to find any bright spots for the defense. In MAC stats, they are last in total defense, pass defense, opponent 3rd down converstion percentage, and pass efficiency defense. They are 2d to last in in scoring defense, and sacks. I guess the bright spot is that they are 5th in rushing defense because, after all, why bother rushing? They are deceptively 5th in total first downs given up, and first in time of possession, because, when you give up so many 1-play drives for TD, there aren't a lot of first downs, nor time of possession.'

With UMass being an efficient passing team, this weekend promises to be, um, well, interesting? Last year Ohio managed to win 58-50. This year the offense is still not as good as last year, and the defense is much worse. I'm going to project a UMass win by the score of 73-42.
Wow, who the heck poisoned your kool-aid?
Last Edited: 9/27/2018 8:33:36 PM by Steve1981
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Bobcat110
9/27/2018 8:46 PM
OHIO 45 mASS 13
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