Ohio Football Topic
Topic: College Attendance Football Woes
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giacomo
10/6/2018 10:22 PM
We should not be playing weeknight games. It does nothing for us. We should not be spending money on amenities as it means nothing. We need a reality check on our athletic program.
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The Optimist
10/8/2018 2:16 PM
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
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catfan28
10/8/2018 6:17 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
We should not be playing weeknight games. It does nothing for us. We should not be spending money on amenities as it means nothing. We need a reality check on our athletic program.
Weeknight games are fine - within reason. MAC should limit each school to a max of 2 home games per season. Having 3 is ridiculous.

As with anything, balance is key. It's great to get on national TV...but you also want to have Saturday games for your fans.
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OhioStunter
10/8/2018 6:24 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
We should not be playing weeknight games. It does nothing for us.
"[The MAC-ESPN deal is estimated to bring in] ...more than $100 million, or roughly about $8 million a season. That factors out to about $670,000 per school, per season, a big improvement over the roughly $120,000 each school received under the previous $1.4 million a year deal, a nearly 500 percent increase in annual payouts."
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OhioStunter
10/8/2018 6:26 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
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ohiocatfan1
10/12/2018 1:48 PM
The reasons for half empty stadiums are numerous. I didn't renew my season football tickets the past 2 seasons. The games are long but it's because of so many breaks in the action. Media timeouts, replay reviews, etc. If the games were the same length without the interruptions that would be no problem. Just too much dead time and quite frankly it's boring. I do agree with the previous comment(s). Football peaked a few years ago.
Last Edited: 10/12/2018 1:52:04 PM by ohiocatfan1
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Robert Fox
10/12/2018 2:53 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
The reasons for half empty stadiums are numerous. I didn't renew my season football tickets the past 2 seasons. The games are long but it's because of so many breaks in the action. Media timeouts, replay reviews, etc. If the games were the same length without the interruptions that would be no problem. Just too much dead time and quite frankly it's boring. I do agree with the previous comment(s). Football peaked a few years ago.
Agree!
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The Optimist
10/12/2018 3:54 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
If our athletic department is trying to make money, they're not doing a good job.
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OhioStunter
10/12/2018 4:18 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
If our athletic department is trying to make money, they're not doing a good job.
That doesn't really explain your statement about getting too corporate. I'm interested in what your detailed take is here.

My view is that athletic departments need corporate dollars (sponsorships, uniform deals, TV money) to survive. I'm still not sure why you are opposed to that.
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cbus cat fan
10/12/2018 4:38 PM
Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
On Saban:

So, if your customers are not showing up you go on TV and complain about them?

I guess Sears should be be out there saying "What the F people! Can't believe you are not here buying our stuff! We work hard and deserve better! Get off your ass and get in a store and spend your money!"

(Good grief.)
With all that is going in the world, we need to find something to laugh at from time to time. I don't mean to make light of the Sears situation since they are where Amazon was about 100 years ago, but you make a good point. Thanks Ohio69 I needed that laugh. Honestly, Coach Saban needs to step down at the end of the year. I mean if you are making $7,000,000? a year and it sounds like you don't like your job, even though no one can beat you at it, probably means it is time to stop and smell the roses, spend some more time with your family, and count your blessings.

I scrolled back and saw my post from late August on here and it hit me after hearing about abysmal opening NBA and NHL attendance numbers that things are changing in live pro sports faster than we can comprehend it. The expense, the hassle to get in and out of the arena, lack of family environment at some venues etc.

College football and college basketball have been my favorite sports (live and on TV) for a long time. Even their numbers are down to a myriad of things we have talked about ad nauseam at this site, not the least of which is our remote control (lack of attention society) and the plethora of entertainment choices available to many. It is just the state of the world in 2018.
Last Edited: 10/12/2018 4:42:43 PM by cbus cat fan
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TWT
10/13/2018 1:33 PM
The college kid today has grown up on smartphones. Due to the proliferation of family plans they all have them. Probably 80% of their information is coming from apps on a smartphone. If I were an OU student with all the programming on campus I'd want a bobcat app that gives me the latest happenings. That is where I think we've got to go. I noticed a big drop off in student attendance the moment The Post stopped with its print addition. Students today I'm afraid don't even have time for Ohiobobcats.com waiting for its frame to load.
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TWT
10/13/2018 1:39 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
The reasons for half empty stadiums are numerous. I didn't renew my season football tickets the past 2 seasons. The games are long but it's because of so many breaks in the action. Media timeouts, replay reviews, etc. If the games were the same length without the interruptions that would be no problem. Just too much dead time and quite frankly it's boring. I do agree with the previous comment(s). Football peaked a few years ago.
Live attendance across all sports peaked in 2002. I think it started when they priced out a lot of fans. That helped Ohio some since it was a relatively affordable option compared to the pro game. Online content for the past 15 years has been eating away at the live audience. One advantage the colleges have is they can bundle with other entertainment on campus since its a bubble in a way pro sports can't bundle with the local art museum.
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Mark Lembright '85
10/13/2018 2:20 PM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
If I were an OU student with all the programming on campus I'd want a bobcat app that gives me the latest happenings. That is where I think we've got to go.
Love this idea and couldn’t agree more!!! Not that it would solve all of Ohio’s attendance issues but it sure wouldn’t hurt.
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giacomo
10/13/2018 3:24 PM
Maybe it will all go the way of studio wrestling. Playing field with a small number of seats and made for TV and hand held devices.
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The Optimist
10/16/2018 2:33 PM
OhioStunter wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
Not sure why my response to this post was deleted, and then your response to that was deleted...

As I said, we're NOT making money. The big athletic departments make money. We do not. I'm a finance guy, so I'm talking cash flow, not any additional goodwill/marketing value we get beyond strictly the bottom line (and I'm of the belief those ARE material)

It's a rigged game. Instead of going along with the big boys and settling for hemorrhaging money in return for playing 2nd fiddle for the big schools/P5, I'd argue we'd be better off refusing to play that game. I'm not saying we drop out of D-1, I'm saying we focus on filling seats rather than selling empty seats. We can FILL this stadium rather just just sell tickets. Stop catering to ESPN & Budweiser and instead embrace small business. Remember when people claimed the Jackie O's experiment would be a failure? Despite the concerns about "pouring rights," that has not only been successful for the bottom-line BUT it has also enhanced the fan experience in Peden.

People have complained about concessions in the stadium for years. We have some corporate concessions group that sells overpriced soft pretzels and can't fire up the hot chocolate maker when it's 30 degrees out. I don't care what amount of money their contract brings in for Ohio Athletics, it's a bad deal. Our athletic department should go sign Court Street Coffee or Brennan's to have a Hot Chocolate/Coffee stand at the game. Make some revenue split or flat rate deal with them like they did with Jackie O's. Do the same thing with some local restaurants/food vendors. Fans would love it.
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Sam bobcat
10/16/2018 3:06 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
Not sure why my response to this post was deleted, and then your response to that was deleted...

As I said, we're NOT making money. The big athletic departments make money. We do not. I'm a finance guy, so I'm talking cash flow, not any additional goodwill/marketing value we get beyond strictly the bottom line (and I'm of the belief those ARE material)

It's a rigged game. Instead of going along with the big boys and settling for hemorrhaging money in return for playing 2nd fiddle for the big schools/P5, I'd argue we'd be better off refusing to play that game. I'm not saying we drop out of D-1, I'm saying we focus on filling seats rather than selling empty seats. We can FILL this stadium rather just just sell tickets. Stop catering to ESPN & Budweiser and instead embrace small business. Remember when people claimed the Jackie O's experiment would be a failure? Despite the concerns about "pouring rights," that has not only been successful for the bottom-line BUT it has also enhanced the fan experience in Peden.

People have complained about concessions in the stadium for years. We have some corporate concessions group that sells overpriced soft pretzels and can't fire up the hot chocolate maker when it's 30 degrees out. I don't care what amount of money their contract brings in for Ohio Athletics, it's a bad deal. Our athletic department should go sign Court Street Coffee or Brennan's to have a Hot Chocolate/Coffee stand at the game. Make some revenue split or flat rate deal with them like they did with Jackie O's. Do the same thing with some local restaurants/food vendors. Fans would love it.
I couldn’t agree more. I don’t know who runs the consessions but they do a terrible job. When you’re out of hot dogs in the first quarter you need to rethink your strategy.
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OhioStunter
10/16/2018 4:25 PM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
Not sure why my response to this post was deleted, and then your response to that was deleted...

As I said, we're NOT making money. The big athletic departments make money. We do not. I'm a finance guy, so I'm talking cash flow, not any additional goodwill/marketing value we get beyond strictly the bottom line (and I'm of the belief those ARE material)

It's a rigged game. Instead of going along with the big boys and settling for hemorrhaging money in return for playing 2nd fiddle for the big schools/P5, I'd argue we'd be better off refusing to play that game. I'm not saying we drop out of D-1, I'm saying we focus on filling seats rather than selling empty seats. We can FILL this stadium rather just just sell tickets. Stop catering to ESPN & Budweiser and instead embrace small business. Remember when people claimed the Jackie O's experiment would be a failure? Despite the concerns about "pouring rights," that has not only been successful for the bottom-line BUT it has also enhanced the fan experience in Peden.

People have complained about concessions in the stadium for years. We have some corporate concessions group that sells overpriced soft pretzels and can't fire up the hot chocolate maker when it's 30 degrees out. I don't care what amount of money their contract brings in for Ohio Athletics, it's a bad deal. Our athletic department should go sign Court Street Coffee or Brennan's to have a Hot Chocolate/Coffee stand at the game. Make some revenue split or flat rate deal with them like they did with Jackie O's. Do the same thing with some local restaurants/food vendors. Fans would love it.
Don't get me started on concessions. I wholeheartedly agree that the university does not make as much as it could -- or should -- at games. It should improve.

However, getting $670K for being on ESPN would mean selling a lot of hot dogs and pretzels to make up for a revenue loss. Playing P5 teams on the road for million dollar payouts -- not ideal, but necessary. Schools like OU will never win the arms race, but they do need to be creative to survive financially.

If that involves ESPN paying us to televise games nationally, great.

If Adidas wants to pay us to wear their uniforms, go for it.

Now, when you start messing with concessions, I think you are right, even if the contractor has paid OU to provide those services and it is inadequate for fans, I do think a change needs to be made.
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TWT
10/18/2018 7:29 AM
The Optimist wrote:expand_more
Athletic Departments have gotten too corporate. Corporate Money is great for the top tier but the MAC would be better off playing the contrarian.
I'm not sure I follow. Athletic Departments should NOT try to be making money?
Not sure why my response to this post was deleted, and then your response to that was deleted...

As I said, we're NOT making money. The big athletic departments make money. We do not. I'm a finance guy, so I'm talking cash flow, not any additional goodwill/marketing value we get beyond strictly the bottom line (and I'm of the belief those ARE material)

It's a rigged game. Instead of going along with the big boys and settling for hemorrhaging money in return for playing 2nd fiddle for the big schools/P5, I'd argue we'd be better off refusing to play that game. I'm not saying we drop out of D-1, I'm saying we focus on filling seats rather than selling empty seats. We can FILL this stadium rather just just sell tickets. Stop catering to ESPN & Budweiser and instead embrace small business. Remember when people claimed the Jackie O's experiment would be a failure? Despite the concerns about "pouring rights," that has not only been successful for the bottom-line BUT it has also enhanced the fan experience in Peden.

People have complained about concessions in the stadium for years. We have some corporate concessions group that sells overpriced soft pretzels and can't fire up the hot chocolate maker when it's 30 degrees out. I don't care what amount of money their contract brings in for Ohio Athletics, it's a bad deal. Our athletic department should go sign Court Street Coffee or Brennan's to have a Hot Chocolate/Coffee stand at the game. Make some revenue split or flat rate deal with them like they did with Jackie O's. Do the same thing with some local restaurants/food vendors. Fans would love it.
The athletic department is trying but there are existing vendor contracts with the university they have to work around. I think the key to filling seats is saturating the region with tickets. The best crowds in Athens have correlated with opponents. It might make sense then to bump up the stadium capacity to attract better non-conference opponents, draw bigger crowds and get alumni excited about coming down for a game.
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colobobcat66
10/22/2018 1:54 PM
I see in the Athens Mesenger yesterday that student enrollment in Athens is down 3,000 on the last 3 years, but the incoming GPA is way up to 3.54. Do nerds attend football games? Anyway you look at it, student numbers plummeting by this much doesn’t help attendance. Not saying it’s the only factor, but it doesn’t look to turn around a time soon.
Last Edited: 10/22/2018 4:22:10 PM by colobobcat66
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OUcats82
10/22/2018 4:36 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
I see in the Athens Mesenger yesterday that student enrollment in Athens is down 3,000 on the last 3 years, but the incoming GPA is way up to 3.54. Do nerds attend football games? Anyway you look at it, student numbers plummeting by this much doesn’t help attendance. Not saying it’s the only factor, but it doesn’t ok to turn around a time soon.
But how much larger is the student body today than say 20-30-40 years ago and what was Peden's capacity in those eras?

Was attendance at an all time low in those years between Hess and Grobe?

Just thinking that although enrollment is down, it still has to be among the highest counts in school history?

Is anyone familiar with the contract for the main concessions vendor? Are the benefits of the contract so great that they could not be overcome with a more local approach, using restaurants from Athens County/SEO? Is it actually in fact part of the university food service system?

Just seems like at least thousands of dollars are left on the table at home games because the supply of food runs out so early (based on input here-may not be accurate?)

If people are buying lousy snack bar food in high volume, how much better would say slices of Goodfella's or Bagel Street sandwiches sell? Perhaps interest has been gauged and these local establishments aren't interested?

I realize all of this is not as simple as it sounds, but this is something that has caught my attention with the opening of the newly renovated 5/3 Arena/Shoemaker Center at UC:

http://53arena.gobearcats.com/press-release/2018/10/cinci... /

Somehow they managed to figure it out, working with Aramark? Even a scaled down version would be a good start!
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Deciduous Forest Cat
10/22/2018 4:36 PM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
I see in the Athens Mesenger yesterday that student enrollment in Athens is down 3,000 on the last 3 years, but the incoming GPA is way up to 3.54. Do nerds attend football games? Anyway you look at it, student numbers plummeting by this much doesn’t help attendance. Not saying it’s the only factor, but it doesn’t look to turn around a time soon.
Are you sure about that? That's a huge drop. I thought this year was the first enrollment decrease in a long time. are you sure that's not all campuses?
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colobobcat66
10/22/2018 7:24 PM
The article yesterday read “the total number of undergraduate and graduate students at the Athens campus has dropped from 23,839 in
2015 to 20,815 this year.” Can’t get much more solid than that. Maybe you’re right and all the change is this year, but facts are facts. Unless you don’t believe everything you read.
Last Edited: 10/22/2018 7:24:51 PM by colobobcat66
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colobobcat66
10/22/2018 7:28 PM
OUcats82 wrote:expand_more
I see in the Athens Mesenger yesterday that student enrollment in Athens is down 3,000 on the last 3 years, but the incoming GPA is way up to 3.54. Do nerds attend football games? Anyway you look at it, student numbers plummeting by this much doesn’t help attendance. Not saying it’s the only factor, but it doesn’t ok to turn around a time soon.
But how much larger is the student body today than say 20-30-40 years ago and what was Peden's capacity in those eras?

Was attendance at an all time low in those years between Hess and Grobe?

Just thinking that although enrollment is down, it still has to be among the highest counts in school history?

Is anyone familiar with the contract for the main concessions vendor? Are the benefits of the contract so great that they could not be overcome with a more local approach, using restaurants from Athens County/SEO? Is it actually in fact part of the university food service system?

Just seems like at least thousands of dollars are left on the table at home games because the supply of food runs out so early (based on input here-may not be accurate?)

If people are buying lousy snack bar food in high volume, how much better would say slices of Goodfella's or Bagel Street sandwiches sell? Perhaps interest has been gauged and these local establishments aren't interested?

I realize all of this is not as simple as it sounds, but this is something that has caught my attention with the opening of the newly renovated 5/3 Arena/Shoemaker Center at UC:

http://53arena.gobearcats.com/press-release/2018/10/cinci... /

Somehow they managed to figure it out, working with Aramark? Even a scaled down version would be a good start!

I haven’t kept up with student enrollment, I'm just saying enrollment is recently significantly down. All the other entertainment choices may be the main drivers of attendance declines, but it can’t help to have fewer students in today’s environment.
Last Edited: 10/23/2018 11:32:15 AM by colobobcat66
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OhioCatFan
10/22/2018 8:47 PM
Here's a better and more complete analysis of our enrollment trends:

https://tinyurl.com/y7xl46to
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AZBobcat
10/23/2018 12:30 PM
giacomo wrote:expand_more
Maybe it will all go the way of studio wrestling. Playing field with a small number of seats and made for TV and hand held devices.
When I hit Mega Millions I'm buying WWE and starting a Saturday morning studio wrestling show live from Stamford every week.
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