Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Does Defense Matter?
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Sam bobcat
12/14/2018 8:14 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
How about a third measure? What about the point differential, the average offensive points less the average points given up? It seems obvious that you win more often if you score more points than the foe. Here's the same table, with that data:
2017 +14.9 - 2d East
2018 +14.5 - 2d East (tie)
2011 +8.4 - East Champion
2012 +5.7 - 3rd East
2010 +3.7 - 2d East
2016 +3.7 - East Champion
2009 +3.5 - East Champion (tie, won tiebreaker)
2015 +2.2 - 2d East (tie)
2006 +1.6 - East Champion
2007 +.6 - 4th East (tie)
2013 -0.1 - 3rd East (tie)
2008 -3.1 - 5th East (tie)
2014 -4.3 - 2d East (tie)
2005 -13.0 - 4th East

Interestingly, the flashy teams that we think of as great are at the top on this list, but the gritty, battling teams like 2006, that refused to lose, may end up at the top of the East. That grit, and toughness, is often embodied in the defense, which is why, in my opinion, the top defensive teams are more apt to win the conference than the top offensive teams.

What we need, it seems, is a combination, a flashy team that can destroy weaker foes, but which is also gritty and refuses to lose the close ones. Those are the true great teams, and what Ohio has yet to produce. They had flashy offensive teams in 2011, 2017-8, and gritty, tough defenses in 2006, 2009, and 2016. It appeared that 2012 was the year they had both, but after 19 Season ending injuries, they had neither.

Next year the offense will most likely be down some, but it will still be good. I expect they will score more like 32-34 rather than 39-41. That is still enough to win, depending on the defense. The defense returns almost of the starters, and an even higher percentage of the 2-deep. Will they play with toughness and determination? Will they battle for every inch in the close games, and refuse to lose? Or, will they get passive, and play "prevent (nothing) defense" when they have the lead? That will determine the fate of the 2019 team, in my opinion.
Fascinating that the 2012, 2017 and 2018 teams might be three of the most talented teams Frank has fielded .... and yet all three stumbled on their way to, not just a MACC, but a MAC East title with late season losses.
"Late season losses." L.C. already addressed the 2012 season's 19 season ending injuries and the 2nd half of the 2018 season was 5-1, finishing very strong vs Buffalo and Akron. Now 2017, yeh, that group had some disappointments that were total team efforts. A.J. Ouellette acknowledged that, vs Akron, there were times he just needed to be a little patient and let the blocking develop, but, did not. Vs Buffalo A.J. only two carries and Brown was out. That team was totally different when A.J. or Brown were 100% healthy, see the bowl win. JMHO.
So you are just erasing the Miami loss this year? That doesn't count as a late-season loss that cost Ohio the MAC East title?

Injuries aside in 2012, did Ohio not suffer three straight losses to end the regular season to not win the MAC East? And they apparently were able to overcome 19 season-ending injuries to win a bowl game 45-14, right?

Good try attempting to twist my words around.

What I wrote had no secret, double-meaning. Ohio had incredibly talented teams in 2012, 2017 and 2018 that all lost games in November that cost them MAC East titles. That's all I was saying. The losses are fact. Can't dispute. The "incredibly talented" part is opinion ... but I'm guessing it won't be disputed too hard?
I get it. You have a problem with any loss Ohio takes. Ohio loses, you start the blame game. Seems to be your favorite pastime. Yes, the Miami loss was late season and it resulted in Ohio not winning the Division. However, having watched the game, before getting into blaming Ohio I will first credit Miami's Ragland, Smith & Young who matched Ohio's Rourke, Ouellette & White who put up 364 yards to Miami's 357. It was a good game, credit to Miami. Both teams should have left the field heads held high. Since the MACC game vs WMU Ohio is 17-10. Honestly, in those 10 losses we will disagree about Ohio blame vs opponent credit. I do not expect to ever see you credit an opponent. So be it.
Break out the participation trophies!!!

Everyone should exit the field with their heads held high.

Credit your opponent!

This nonsense just makes me laugh.

No one is discrediting Miami ... or NIU ... or Akron ... or Buffalo .... or Texas State ... or anyone else Ohio lost too over the years.

But you NEVER acknowledge that Ohio may not have held up their end. It's ALWAYS credit the opponent ... blah, blah, blah.

You probably think Hillary should credit Trump for his hard-fought win? Both should hold their heads high.

Same goes for Georgetown in 1982. Freddy Brown didn't make a bad pass .... UNC simply was an outstanding opponent. They deserve the credit.

Sometimes teams lay an egg. It happens. And saying it doesn't curse you and set you up to be struck by lightning. Nor does it make you less of a fan

I promise ... Rufus will still hug you if you say Ohio blew that game at UC or NIU.

But no ... those were just worthy advisories that deserve all the credit and both should be praised.

And here's something ... of those 9 losses, (your math was wrong ... bowl loss + (9-4) + (8-4)) how many do I "blame" Ohio for, as you like to say ... hmmm ... let's see.

2018
UC ... yep. Ohio gave that away
NIU ... yep. Ohio blows 14pt 4Q lead
Miami ... see LCs comments above. Was a game Ohio could've won, but they had a lot working against them including bad in-game adjustments
UVA ... they smoked Ohio. Period. Was not a pretty game

2017
UB .... yup. Ohio was better than a 5-6 UB team. Just a poor performance
Akron ... yup. No explanation necessary
Purdue ... see UVa
CMU ... yup. That was a dud on homecoming.

So yeah ... I'd say of those, five of them are games Ohio should've won.

I've never said Ohio should go 14-0 every year. But there are certainly games they should win ... and probably won't win.

But why would you care. It's all about the fine young men competing and leaving the field, heads held high after a fine competition.
Your nonsense makes me laugh! And once again your lack of appreciation for how difficult it is to win any game at this level shows how little you know about the game. It’s hard to appreciate what you’ve never experienced. #endlesswhining
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bshot44
12/14/2018 8:50 AM
Sam bobcat wrote:expand_more
Your nonsense makes me laugh! And once again your lack of appreciation for how difficult it is to win any game at this level shows how little you know about the game. It’s hard to appreciate what you’ve never experienced. #endlesswhining
Glad I can make you laugh. Also sad you don't have to ability to understand my position.

When did I ever say I think Ohio should go 10000000-0 and never lose?

How do I not appreciate how hard it is to win?

And here we go again ... another clown argument of "hard to appreciate what you never experienced". Just awful.

Why do I have to have played division one college football to appreciate how difficult it is to win? Just an incredibly ridiculous claim.

Where in any of my comments above did I take shots at Ohio for not winning enough?

This hot garbage started with me saying I was fascinated that three of Frank's arguable most talented teams were towards the top of the list of having the best season point differential but yet didn't win MAC East because of late season losses?

That's not an opinion. It wasn't a judgment. That is what you and bcat2 started storming the castle with pitchforks about.

Did Ohio not lose games in November in 2012, 2017 & 2018 that cost them the MAC East?!?!

How is that not appreciating how hard it is to win?

Lol... hilarious
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Cats-22
12/14/2018 8:56 AM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Same goes for Georgetown in 1982. Freddy Brown didn't make a bad pass .... UNC simply was an outstanding opponent. They deserve the credit.

If I recall correctly UNC did have a few good players that year.
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bshot44
12/14/2018 8:58 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
bshot44, I won't comment on all of these, but I was at the UC game and OHIO did, indeed, blow it. Frank actually admitted that after the game. He said that the play calling with 1st and goal with the ball on the 1 foot line was horrible. He said he took total blame. He said the OC made the call, but he has the option to over-ride the call and he didn't do that, and he should have done it. If the HC says that loss was on him, and he gives specifics like this, I'm not going to give the credit to the opponent. I do agree with bcat2 that there are many times when we as fans don't give enough credit to the opponent. I would cite the Miami game as an example of this type of game, when it wasn't so much that OHIO lost the game, but that Miami played a really good game, had OHIO well scouted, and executed a well-thought-out game plan. So, I see merit in both what you say and what bcat2 says, in certain given circumstances.
I agree with you on Miami. It wasn't me not giving them credit at all.

I simply stated a fact that Ohio lost a game in November this year that essentially cost them the MAC East. It was a statement of fact.

At no point did I say Ohio blew that game. That's not a shot at your comments. More at suzy sunshine bcat2.

He's the one who who took my words and turned it into me not giving credit to teams like Miami.

I called for the loss at Miami. Go back and look. Ohio had struggled in Oxford for last 8 years. I thought that was going to be a loss. So it didn't surprise me. It disappointed me, because it was a game Ohio could've won. And it was disappointing on how it played out. The defense made no adjustments on four straight TD drives for Miami and put themselves in huge hole.

I've talked at length about that game with LC ... and agree the MAC did them no favor with the scheduling.

But for bcat2 and sammy bobcat to keep up this garbage twisting my comments into slamming Ohio & not understanding how hard to is to win is what's laughable.
Last Edited: 12/14/2018 9:01:06 AM by bshot44
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bshot44
12/14/2018 8:59 AM
Cats-22 wrote:expand_more
Same goes for Georgetown in 1982. Freddy Brown didn't make a bad pass .... UNC simply was an outstanding opponent. They deserve the credit.

If I recall correctly UNC did have a few good players that year.
Some great players! Hall of famers.

But Georgetown had that game won if Brown doesn't pass it right to James Worthy
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Sam bobcat
12/14/2018 1:45 PM
bshot44 wrote:expand_more
Your nonsense makes me laugh! And once again your lack of appreciation for how difficult it is to win any game at this level shows how little you know about the game. It’s hard to appreciate what you’ve never experienced. #endlesswhining
Glad I can make you laugh. Also sad you don't have to ability to understand my position.

When did I ever say I think Ohio should go 10000000-0 and never lose?

How do I not appreciate how hard it is to win?

And here we go again ... another clown argument of "hard to appreciate what you never experienced". Just awful.

Why do I have to have played division one college football to appreciate how difficult it is to win? Just an incredibly ridiculous claim.

Where in any of my comments above did I take shots at Ohio for not winning enough?

This hot garbage started with me saying I was fascinated that three of Frank's arguable most talented teams were towards the top of the list of having the best season point differential but yet didn't win MAC East because of late season losses?

That's not an opinion. It wasn't a judgment. That is what you and bcat2 started storming the castle with pitchforks about.

Did Ohio not lose games in November in 2012, 2017 & 2018 that cost them the MAC East?!?!

How is that not appreciating how hard it is to win?

Lol... hilarious
I’m not storming any castle with pitchforks. There is a reason people call you out for being the new Monroe. We aren’t misunderstanding you. That is who you are. The new Monroe.
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bshot44
12/14/2018 2:49 PM
Sam bobcat wrote:expand_more
Your nonsense makes me laugh! And once again your lack of appreciation for how difficult it is to win any game at this level shows how little you know about the game. It’s hard to appreciate what you’ve never experienced. #endlesswhining
Glad I can make you laugh. Also sad you don't have to ability to understand my position.

When did I ever say I think Ohio should go 10000000-0 and never lose?

How do I not appreciate how hard it is to win?

And here we go again ... another clown argument of "hard to appreciate what you never experienced". Just awful.

Why do I have to have played division one college football to appreciate how difficult it is to win? Just an incredibly ridiculous claim.

Where in any of my comments above did I take shots at Ohio for not winning enough?

This hot garbage started with me saying I was fascinated that three of Frank's arguable most talented teams were towards the top of the list of having the best season point differential but yet didn't win MAC East because of late season losses?

That's not an opinion. It wasn't a judgment. That is what you and bcat2 started storming the castle with pitchforks about.

Did Ohio not lose games in November in 2012, 2017 & 2018 that cost them the MAC East?!?!

How is that not appreciating how hard it is to win?

Lol... hilarious
I’m not storming any castle with pitchforks. There is a reason people call you out for being the new Monroe. We aren’t misunderstanding you. That is who you are. The new Monroe.
Ok. Diehard Bobcat fan since 2016.

bcat2's brother-in-arms. Who's calling me out outside you're little green kool-aid army.

Keep finding ways to misrepresent me if that gives you satisfaction.

Lol ... hilarious.
Last Edited: 12/14/2018 2:54:08 PM by bshot44
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