menu
Logo
99+
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
99+
Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Baker and the Browns
Page: 2 of 3
mail
person
Buck.Cat
12/24/2018 10:35 PM
As a lifelong Browns fan and someone who initially hated the pick, bring on the Baker era. Watching Baker own Colin Cowherd on his show is one of the best pieces of destruction on a sports media talking head.
mail
person
Maddog13
12/25/2018 5:08 AM
Winning at all costs, which is what the NFL thrives on, does not have time for loyalty. It is a business of paid mercenaries in response. The NFL asks it's fans to be loyal, yet asks them, via taxes, to pay for the building of their stadiums and then turn them back over to them free of charge, only to turn around and make going to such games so expensive that only a select few can actually enjoy the experience live. At the same time, they put a cap on Rookie contracts in a business that not only has severe short-term health effects, but has proven long-term effects as well. The sad irony here is that Mayfield is too young, naive, and lacking in wisdom (if not completely stupid) to realize that he may be staring down his future self in the form of Hue Jackson. Considering the History that Brown's management has of royally screwing up personnel decisions along with the toughening up of Cleveland's schedule next year in response to winning, we will see how long both Mayfield and the Browns continue to please their fan base before Baker, who will be lucky to survive all of this in one piece, gets dumped off to someone like the Bengals in exchange for whoever ends up being the latest hot commodity to hit the market.

Having grown up in the sixties and seventies, there was a time, as a kid, when you could write these teams a letter to tell them how big of a fan you were of them, and they would send you all sorts of cool swag from stickers to signed photos of team players for free. In fact, players would even take time to interact with you after a game, and, yes, you might even be the recipient of a free jersey here or there. Can you imagine that today? For God's sake, they even charge you delivery costs for even paying a small fortune for the same swag, and even college athletes are making money under the table by signing lots of stuff for greedy collectors. I don't fault anyone for this, but, let us be real, the whole sport of Football has become about nothing but the bottom line

While I casually enjoy the occasional NFL game on television these days, my intense love for the NFL has, basically, dwindled to indifference. In fact, I would argue that there is very little difference between it and professional "wrestling" all the way down to the obviously "juiced" super-athletes to the overacted and staged theater that continues to become bigger and more involved. Baker's actions are just part of the growing spectacle of an increasingly demanding sport that may have reached its apex in the wake of the kind of bad publicity that set back other sports ranging from professional boxing (deaths in the ring) to Baseball (extremely juiced athletes, who actually significantly increased their own hat sizes, if you can believe that).
mail
person
Bcat2
12/25/2018 8:36 AM
Maddog13 wrote:expand_more
Winning at all costs, which is what the NFL thrives on, does not have time for loyalty. It is a business of paid mercenaries in response. The NFL asks it's fans to be loyal, yet asks them, via taxes, to pay for the building of their stadiums and then turn them back over to them free of charge, only to turn around and make going to such games so expensive that only a select few can actually enjoy the experience live. At the same time, they put a cap on Rookie contracts in a business that not only has severe short-term health effects, but has proven long-term effects as well. The sad irony here is that Mayfield is too young, naive, and lacking in wisdom (if not completely stupid) to realize that he may be staring down his future self in the form of Hue Jackson. Considering the History that Brown's management has of royally screwing up personnel decisions along with the toughening up of Cleveland's schedule next year in response to winning, we will see how long both Mayfield and the Browns continue to please their fan base before Baker, who will be lucky to survive all of this in one piece, gets dumped off to someone like the Bengals in exchange for whoever ends up being the latest hot commodity to hit the market.

Having grown up in the sixties and seventies, there was a time, as a kid, when you could write these teams a letter to tell them how big of a fan you were of them, and they would send you all sorts of cool swag from stickers to signed photos of team players for free. In fact, players would even take time to interact with you after a game, and, yes, you might even be the recipient of a free jersey here or there. Can you imagine that today? For God's sake, they even charge you delivery costs for even paying a small fortune for the same swag, and even college athletes are making money under the table by signing lots of stuff for greedy collectors. I don't fault anyone for this, but, let us be real, the whole sport of Football has become about nothing but the bottom line

While I casually enjoy the occasional NFL game on television these days, my intense love for the NFL has, basically, dwindled to indifference. In fact, I would argue that there is very little difference between it and professional "wrestling" all the way down to the obviously "juiced" super-athletes to the overacted and staged theater that continues to become bigger and more involved. Baker's actions are just part of the growing spectacle of an increasingly demanding sport that may have reached its apex in the wake of the kind of bad publicity that set back other sports ranging from professional boxing (deaths in the ring) to Baseball (extremely juiced athletes, who actually significantly increased their own hat sizes, if you can believe that).
My nomination for Post of the Year. Billionaire team owners who annually make millionaires of young men right out of college on the basis of athletic prowess. How the highest paid employee of most states is a college football coach. The hero worship that is bestowed upon entertainers; actors, musicians and athletes. Boggles my mind.
mail
person
Deciduous Forest Cat
12/25/2018 9:09 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Hue went to the division and in-state arch rival within a week of being fired. Give me another example of a HEAD COACH doing that? I don't blame Baker at all for razzing that traitor. In fact, I thought it was hilarious.

I don't understand this at all. The Browns fired him. He was no longer a Brown, he was unemployed. He got a job offer, and took it. If he had quit to take a job with a competitor, yes, I would call him a traitor, but since he was no longer a Brown, that doesn't apply. Unless he had a clause in his employment contract prohibiting him from working for another NFL team for some amount of time, there is nothing wrong with this at all.
Exactly. Cle fires him, why shouldn't he take another job? I was wondering what i was missing in this story, thinking hue must have kicked his dog or knocked up his sister or something. Just more contrived drama for an audience that can't tell the difference.
mail
person
cbus cat fan
12/26/2018 10:44 AM
Lots of interesting posts here. I am kinda of old school in that I like to see players exhibit class and sportsmanship on the field and act like you have been there (especially Baker Mayfield who has won some important games.) I don't feel any sympathy for Hue Jackson who has lived a charmed life only winning a handful of games in three years, yet got paid handsomely and still is able to find a job afterwards.

Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money, you put on all of that stress on yourselves and your family for a hobby or to win at a game you were never good enough to play. Almost all of these guys made their money in others businesses and poured it into their franchise. Being a franchise owner is a fantasy that like other fantasies often turns out poorly. Ratings and attendance is going down and yet there are men begging to own a franchise.

I don't get people who feel that young football players coming out of college are somehow victims, where the minimum wage is something like $300,000 and many players make considerably more than that. My first year out of college in the late 80s, I made less than $20,000 a year teaching (and coaching two sports.) I didn't think of myself as a victim. I was grateful to have a job.

As much as a liked listening to the old Mike and Mike show on my way to work, I shook my head the day Mike Golic wanted sympathy for the day he was cut in the 1980s and only had a couple of hundred thousand in the bank with young kids to feed. Some of us grew up in working class towns where one day the foreman told your dad, uncle etc that there wasn't enough work and your parents had to figure out how to feed the family until another job was found.

Though there is a lot of hypocrisy, I like college sports because unlike pro sports there is a modicum of sportsmanship and reality. A few years back, I was talking to an ex NFL football player who lived near me. He mentioned how many guys he knew that made a practice squad got cut and for years afterward hung on to some sort of fantasy that they would be called back (they never were.) They worked gym type jobs for years delaying a career and harboring fantasies of being the star they knew they would never be.

All that make sports great is competition and sportsmanship. When we lose that, we lose the games we love.
Last Edited: 12/26/2018 10:48:52 AM by cbus cat fan
mail
person
Bcat2
12/26/2018 10:49 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Lots of interesting posts here. I am kinda of old school in that I like to see players exhibit class and sportsmanship on the field and act like you have been there (especially Baker Mayfield who has won some important games.) I don't feel any sympathy for Hue Jackson who has lived a charmed life only winning a handful of games in three years, yet got paid handsomely and still is able to find a job afterwards.

Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money, you put on all of that stress on yourselves and your family for a hobby or to win at a game you were never good enough to play. Almost all of these guys made their money in others businesses and poured it into their franchise. Being a franchise owner is a fantasy that like other fantasies often turns out poorly. Ratings and attendance is going down and yet there are men begging to own a franchise.

I don't get people who feel that young football players coming out of college are somehow victims, where the minimum wage is something like $300,000 and many players make considerably more than that. My first year out of college in the late 80s, I made less than $20,000 a year teaching (and coaching two sports.) I didn't think of myself as a victim. I was grateful to have a job.

As much as a liked listening to the old Mike and Mike show on my way to work, I shook my head the day Mike Golic wanted sympathy for the day he was cut in the 1980s and only had a couple of hundred thousand in the bank with young kids to feed. Some of us grew up in working class towns where one day the foreman told your dad, uncle etc that there wasn't enough work and your parents had to figure out how to feed the family until another job was found.

Though there is a lot of hypocrisy, I like college sports because unlike pro sports there is a modicum of sportsmanship and reality. A few years back, I was talking to an ex NFL football player who lived near me. He mentioned how many guys he knew that made a practice squad got cut and for years afterward hung on to some sort of fantasy that they would be called back (they never were.) They worked gym type jobs for years delaying a career and harboring fantasies of being the star they knew they would never be.

All that make sports great is competition and sportsmanship. When we lose that, we lose the games we love.
+1
mail
person
Pataskala
12/26/2018 11:37 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money, you put on all of that stress on yourselves and your family for a hobby or to win at a game you were never good enough to play. Almost all of these guys made their money in others businesses and poured it into their franchise. Being a franchise owner is a fantasy that like other fantasies often turns out poorly. Ratings and attendance is going down and yet there are men begging to own a franchise.
Add to this that for most of the owners it's just a way to bump elbows with famous people that they didn't meet while making their money. Most of the owners made their money in non-glamorous professions: making packaging materials, selling hardware, technology, restaurants, truck stops, HVAC, auto parts, etc. Now they're in a crowd that includes pro athletes, entertainment stars and other celebrities. It's largely an ego feed.
mail
person
rpbobcat
12/26/2018 12:57 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money,
Can't say I agree with you on this.

Depending on the sport,the net worth of a franchise increases exponentially over time.
I recently saw a comparison of the net worth of the Dallas Cowboys from when Jerry Jones bought them and today.
"Staggering" is the only word to describe it.
(140 million in 1989,4.2 Billion today)

Owners also reap huge revenue dollars for naming rights (If they also own the stadium/arena where they play).

And for luxury boxes/suites.
mail
person
Buck.Cat
12/26/2018 1:41 PM
Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
The hero worship that is bestowed upon entertainers; actors, musicians and athletes. Boggles my mind.
Kinda like a fanatic following a head coach from one school to another school?
mail
person
cbus cat fan
12/26/2018 6:04 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money,
Can't say I agree with you on this.

Depending on the sport,the net worth of a franchise increases exponentially over time.
I recently saw a comparison of the net worth of the Dallas Cowboys from when Jerry Jones bought them and today.
"Staggering" is the only word to describe it.
(140 million in 1989,4.2 Billion today)

Owners also reap huge revenue dollars for naming rights (If they also own the stadium/arena where they play).

And for luxury boxes/suites.
Rpbobcat, there are the rare owners like Jerry Jones who bought into a very undervalued franchise in the 1980s, and those original owners like the Mara's and the Rooney's. However, those folks are literally a dying breed.
Last Edited: 12/26/2018 6:07:58 PM by cbus cat fan
mail
person
cbus cat fan
12/26/2018 6:09 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money, you put on all of that stress on yourselves and your family for a hobby or to win at a game you were never good enough to play. Almost all of these guys made their money in others businesses and poured it into their franchise. Being a franchise owner is a fantasy that like other fantasies often turns out poorly. Ratings and attendance is going down and yet there are men begging to own a franchise.
Add to this that for most of the owners it's just a way to bump elbows with famous people that they didn't meet while making their money. Most of the owners made their money in non-glamorous professions: making packaging materials, selling hardware, technology, restaurants, truck stops, HVAC, auto parts, etc. Now they're in a crowd that includes pro athletes, entertainment stars and other celebrities. It's largely an ego feed.
+1
mail
The Optimist
12/27/2018 9:30 AM
Baker Mayfield wrote:expand_more
"I don't get why people have a problem with football being a competitive sport," Mayfield said. "You're supposed to play with emotion, you're supposed to play with passion. Quite honestly, if you don't like it, whatever. Football's not meant to be a soft game. Could care less."
I agree with Baker.
mail
person
Recovering Journalist
12/27/2018 11:23 AM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money,
Can't say I agree with you on this.

Depending on the sport,the net worth of a franchise increases exponentially over time.
I recently saw a comparison of the net worth of the Dallas Cowboys from when Jerry Jones bought them and today.
"Staggering" is the only word to describe it.
(140 million in 1989,4.2 Billion today)

Owners also reap huge revenue dollars for naming rights (If they also own the stadium/arena where they play).

And for luxury boxes/suites.
Rpbobcat, there are the rare owners like Jerry Jones who bought into a very undervalued franchise in the 1980s, and those original owners like the Mara's and the Rooney's. However, those folks are literally a dying breed.
You couldn't be more wrong. Even the lousiest owners of the wretchedest teams make huge money from the league's massive TV contract -- that's when they're not pillaging public funds to pay for new stadiums or "needed" improvements to existing ones.

Don't believe me? Here's the average valuation of an NFL team over the last 20 or so years. These values are based as much as anything on current and future revenue. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193435/average-franch... /
mail
person
cbus cat fan
12/27/2018 11:41 AM
Recovering Journalist wrote:expand_more
Professional sports owners are a strange breed. You really don't make any money,
Can't say I agree with you on this.

Depending on the sport,the net worth of a franchise increases exponentially over time.
I recently saw a comparison of the net worth of the Dallas Cowboys from when Jerry Jones bought them and today.
"Staggering" is the only word to describe it.
(140 million in 1989,4.2 Billion today)

Owners also reap huge revenue dollars for naming rights (If they also own the stadium/arena where they play).

And for luxury boxes/suites.
Rpbobcat, there are the rare owners like Jerry Jones who bought into a very undervalued franchise in the 1980s, and those original owners like the Mara's and the Rooney's. However, those folks are literally a dying breed.
You couldn't be more wrong. Even the lousiest owners of the wretchedest teams make huge money from the league's massive TV contract -- that's when they're not pillaging public funds to pay for new stadiums or "needed" improvements to existing ones.

Don't believe me? Here's the average valuation of an NFL team over the last 20 or so years. These values are based as much as anything on current and future revenue. https://www.statista.com/statistics/193435/average-franch... /
Sorry Recovering Journalist, though they may be pillaging public funds and hoodwinking advertisers and luxury box owners (giant nerds at hearts who worship celebrities) into throwing away money into a business that is seeing declining attendance and viewership, they still are losing money. How can this be you say? Look at the business they owned originally before they got into professional sports ownership. If Jerry Jones had stayed in the oil business the money he would have made in the post fracking world makes what he has with the Cowboys look like peanuts. They are losing money compared to the businesses that brought them there. Like Pataskala stated, they are just enthralled with celebrity status and rubbing elbows with the in crowd. Any financial adviser worth his salt would laugh at the prospect of owning a sport franchise compared to the rates of return on the businesses they originally owned.
Last Edited: 12/27/2018 11:43:39 AM by cbus cat fan
mail
person
rpbobcat
12/27/2018 12:14 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Sorry Recovering Journalist, though they may be pillaging public funds and hoodwinking advertisers and luxury box owners (giant nerds at hearts who worship celebrities) into throwing away money into a business that is seeing declining attendance and viewership, they still are losing money. How can this be you say? Look at the business they owned originally before they got into professional sports ownership. If Jerry Jones had stayed in the oil business the money he would have made in the post fracking world makes what he has with the Cowboys look like peanuts. They are losing money compared to the businesses that brought them there. Like Pataskala stated, they are just enthralled with celebrity status and rubbing elbows with the in crowd. Any financial adviser worth his salt would laugh at the prospect of owning a sport franchise compared to the rates of return on the businesses they originally owned.
Does anyone know if someone who buys a sports franchise is required to sell their interest in their other business entities ?

It would seem that,unless there is a conflict of interest,there shouldn't be an issue.

I would think that,at the very least,they could handle their ownership through a blind trust.
mail
person
Recovering Journalist
12/27/2018 12:53 PM
rpbobcat wrote:expand_more
Sorry Recovering Journalist, though they may be pillaging public funds and hoodwinking advertisers and luxury box owners (giant nerds at hearts who worship celebrities) into throwing away money into a business that is seeing declining attendance and viewership, they still are losing money. How can this be you say? Look at the business they owned originally before they got into professional sports ownership. If Jerry Jones had stayed in the oil business the money he would have made in the post fracking world makes what he has with the Cowboys look like peanuts. They are losing money compared to the businesses that brought them there. Like Pataskala stated, they are just enthralled with celebrity status and rubbing elbows with the in crowd. Any financial adviser worth his salt would laugh at the prospect of owning a sport franchise compared to the rates of return on the businesses they originally owned.
Does anyone know if someone who buys a sports franchise is required to sell their interest in their other business entities ?

It would seem that,unless there is a conflict of interest,there shouldn't be an issue.

I would think that,at the very least,they could handle their ownership through a blind trust.
They are not, and many of them have not (including the corrupt trucker-cheating Browns owner), making this argument really bad.

https://theweek.com/articles/460126/how-every-nfl-owner-m...
mail
person
cbus cat fan
12/27/2018 2:42 PM
Recovering Journalist, if you gave me a three quarters every week in exchange for a $1 bill you wouldn't think I was a great businessman. The article you linked to made mention of how all these people made their money. With the exception of the Rooney's, Mara's, Brown family, and Jerry Jones undervalued acquisition of the Cowboys in the 80s, they all made their money in other lines of work and the return on their sports franchise investment is considerably less than the lines of work in which they started. Even if they let an incompetent nephew run the business, they are still going to get a better rate of return than their sports franchise.

With the recent news that the Permian Basin in Texas houses double the known oil and gas supply previously thought to exist there, image the rate of return Jerry Jones would have on that if he was still in the oil business full time.

Below are links to two articles, one form a liberal website, the other from a conservative site that helps make my point. They are a few years old, but still elaborate on the point I am making.
https://slate.com/business/2013/01/pro-sports-profits-hob...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120285887693063653
Last Edited: 12/27/2018 2:43:16 PM by cbus cat fan
mail
person
MedinaCat
12/27/2018 3:15 PM
The Slate article is essentially an opinion piece that offers no facts or validation of the author's opinion. Don't have a WSJ subscription, so I'll take your word on that one. I think both you guys are right if you break it down by sport. The NFL model consistently delivers annual profits to owner and the valuation of each franchise has grown exponentially over the last 10 years. Plus, more money will be coming as the league rationalizes and cozies up to sports books and online gambling. I tend to agree with Cbus regarding the NBA and NHL and maybe MLB...they may make money in valuation, but making money on an year-to-year is suspect.
Last Edited: 12/27/2018 3:17:29 PM by MedinaCat
mail
person
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
12/27/2018 4:04 PM
We have no idea what Hue Jackson said or did while coaching Baker Mayfield.

Not to excuse what is immature behavior, but we just don't know.

Based on his showing on Hard Knocks, I wouldn't trust Hue Jackson to fold my laundry. And he was arrogantly stupid on the show.

Talking to guys who covered the Browns, he was chronically late to press conferences, which is a sign of disrespect to everyone. Gregg Williams steps up to the mic literally as the clock hand hits the top of the hour.

It's not a surefire way to judge a person, but I've found you can tell about half of a person's character by whether they show up on time or not.
Last Edited: 12/27/2018 4:12:05 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
mail
person
BillyTheCat
12/27/2018 5:59 PM
Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I like watching him play. I enjoyed watching him plant that flag at midfield in Ohio Stadium, because they asked for it. Today's actions? Not so much.
You either have class or you do not have class, justifying actions based on our personal preference is a slippery slope
mail
person
BillyTheCat
12/27/2018 6:01 PM
Buck.Cat wrote:expand_more
The hero worship that is bestowed upon entertainers; actors, musicians and athletes. Boggles my mind.
Kinda like a fanatic following a head coach from one school to another school?
Post of the year
mail
person
Recovering Journalist
12/27/2018 8:32 PM
cbus cat fan wrote:expand_more
Below are links to two articles, one form a liberal website, the other from a conservative site that helps make my point. They are a few years old, but still elaborate on the point I am making.
https://slate.com/business/2013/01/pro-sports-profits-hob...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB120285887693063653
None of that says you NFL ownership is unprofitable. In fact, the Slate piece is advocating for a profit-less ownership model, and lamenting the fact that it doesn't exist.

I'm not suggesting that one cannot make better money doing other things. I am refuting your completely incorrect statement that NFL owners don't make money off their teams.

As TV revenue dries up and football in general becomes less popular, that may change, but owning an NFL franchise has been very lucrative for at least the last 20 years. In fact, the last incompetent owner who couldn't pay to play was Art Modell in the 1990s, and we all know that had a happy ending for his bank account anyway.
mail
person
BillyTheCat
12/27/2018 9:23 PM
Meanwhile the NFL will make record profits yet again and the very astute BA’ers will continue to tout the demise of the sport and on another thread we will talk about the rise of soccer as the dominant sport in America.

Maybe when our soccer team becomes a National contender like Akron the University will finally build that 2nd deck onto Peden.
mail
person
Maddog13
12/27/2018 10:00 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Meanwhile the NFL will make record profits yet again and the very astute BA’ers will continue to tout the demise of the sport and on another thread we will talk about the rise of soccer as the dominant sport in America.

Maybe when our soccer team becomes a National contender like Akron the University will finally build that 2nd deck onto Peden.
Sorry, BillyTheCat, we Americans are too Neanderthal to embrace the World's most popular sport. We thirst for blood and savagery on every play. Send in the Lions, that will get the 2nd deck in Peden built!!!
mail
person
PhiTau74
12/27/2018 10:36 PM
I was at “The Drive” and a life long Browns fan. Hue was an idiot, you don’t sit the No. 1 pick in the draft and not have any competition forhim to earn the right to start. Baker is 100% right.
Showing Messages: 26 - 50 of 60
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
chevron_backward
chevron_forward
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)