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Topic: Miami Recruiting
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Bcat2
12/26/2018 7:58 AM
I was looking at recruiting in the MAC. Miami reports a class of 29.

https://miamiredhawks.com/news/2018/12/19/football-martin...

Seems Miami's roster only shows 20 RSSr/Srs. Typically some others are lost to medical and some rs Jrs may graduate and move on. However signing nine over the Sr group is a bunch. Thinking coach Martin might be churning his roster like a big time program. I hope this does not become the norm in the MAC. No doubt in my mind coach Martin will will be moving up shortly.

Buffalo at the last moment landed 6'5" 220lb. QB Trevor Bycznski of Berea-Midpark High of Cleveland. Trevor had been a commit to Rice.

https://buffalonews.com/2018/12/19/buffalo-football-recru... /
Last Edited: 12/26/2018 10:13:27 AM by Bcat2
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L.C.
12/26/2018 1:28 PM
I did a quick analysis of MAC recruiting quantities. If you assume that all freshman players recruited from 2015-2019 will still be on the roster this fall, and all JUCO players recruited in 2018-19, the teams would have the following number of scholarship players:

Miami 114
WMU 109
NIU 108
Ball State 107
Toledo 106
EMU 102
Ohio 98
BG 96
CMU 92
Kent 90
Buffalo 74
Akron 53

There are obviously errors in this data or everything would come out 85. So, things that cause these numbers to be over 85:
1. "Churning players"
2. Career ending injuries
3. Academic Non-Qualifiers
4. No shows
5. players suspended for off the field events
6. players who never redshirt, and in this case, were from 2015.
7. Players that leave the program for person reasons
8. Players reported as signed who were actually preferred walkons

Things that cause numbers to be under 85
1. Scholarships issued to walkons
2. Players that transfer in, including graduate transfers
3. Players whose data is not reported to the recruiting services, such as grayshirts

I would guess that CMU, Kent, Buffalo and Akron have a lot of players from the latter categories. The middle ground seems to be about 92-102. There are a number of schools on the high end. Is it explained by playing a lot of players from the 2015 class without redshirts? By a lot of career ending injuries? By a lot of no shows and academic non-qualifiers? Is it churning players, asking them to leave if they aren't working out? Is it players leaving because they aren't happy with the state of the program? I have no way to know.

FWIW, here are the Ohio players that this method suggests should be on the roster, but who are not, and the reason why I believe they are not here:

Used up eligibility in four years:
2015 Jake Hale
2015 Evan Croutch

Left due to injuries:
2015 Elijah Ball
2015 Mayne Williams
2015 Langston Provitt
2016 Sean Beadle?

Left due to off-the-field issues
2015 Addrell Taylor
2015 Kyle Belack
2016 Desmond Noel

Transferred for unknown reasons:
2015 - Maxwell Howell
2015 - Keith Key
2016 - Andrew Cree
2016 - Scean Mustian-Sherman
2016 - Taeshon Trotter
2017 - Brevin Harris
2017 - Jylton Tusha

Data Error:
2016 - Bryan Long, Jr - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2016 - Nick Sink - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2016 - Aiden O'Neill - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2017 - Ogun-Semore - listed twice, once as Ayoola, once as Amos (sadly, there is only one of him)
2018 - Mason Bernhardt - preferred walkon?

As you can see, a certain amount of this stuff is going to happen, and a number in the 90s seems reasonable. 114? I don't know.
Last Edited: 12/26/2018 1:31:10 PM by L.C.
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allen
12/26/2018 2:14 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
I did a quick analysis of MAC recruiting quantities. If you assume that all freshman players recruited from 2015-2019 will still be on the roster this fall, and all JUCO players recruited in 2018-19, the teams would have the following number of scholarship players:

Miami 114
WMU 109
NIU 108
Ball State 107
Toledo 106
EMU 102
Ohio 98
BG 96
CMU 92
Kent 90
Buffalo 74
Akron 53

There are obviously errors in this data or everything would come out 85. So, things that cause these numbers to be over 85:
1. "Churning players"
2. Career ending injuries
3. Academic Non-Qualifiers
4. No shows
5. players suspended for off the field events
6. players who never redshirt, and in this case, were from 2015.
7. Players that leave the program for person reasons
8. Players reported as signed who were actually preferred walkons

Things that cause numbers to be under 85
1. Scholarships issued to walkons
2. Players that transfer in, including graduate transfers
3. Players whose data is not reported to the recruiting services, such as grayshirts

I would guess that CMU, Kent, Buffalo and Akron have a lot of players from the latter categories. The middle ground seems to be about 92-102. There are a number of schools on the high end. Is it explained by playing a lot of players from the 2015 class without redshirts? By a lot of career ending injuries? By a lot of no shows and academic non-qualifiers? Is it churning players, asking them to leave if they aren't working out? Is it players leaving because they aren't happy with the state of the program? I have no way to know.

FWIW, here are the Ohio players that this method suggests should be on the roster, but who are not, and the reason why I believe they are not here:

Used up eligibility in four years:
2015 Jake Hale
2015 Evan Croutch

Left due to injuries:
2015 Elijah Ball
2015 Mayne Williams
2015 Langston Provitt
2016 Sean Beadle?

Left due to off-the-field issues
2015 Addrell Taylor
2015 Kyle Belack
2016 Desmond Noel

Transferred for unknown reasons:
2015 - Maxwell Howell
2015 - Keith Key
2016 - Andrew Cree
2016 - Scean Mustian-Sherman
2016 - Taeshon Trotter
2017 - Brevin Harris
2017 - Jylton Tusha

Data Error:
2016 - Bryan Long, Jr - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2016 - Nick Sink - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2016 - Aiden O'Neill - reported as scholarship, actually a preferred walkon
2017 - Ogun-Semore - listed twice, once as Ayoola, once as Amos (sadly, there is only one of him)
2018 - Mason Bernhardt - preferred walkon?

As you can see, a certain amount of this stuff is going to happen, and a number in the 90s seems reasonable. 114? I don't know.

Lots of big time programs do this and much worst, I appreciate our coaches ethical support. Michigan forces out about 5-7 players per year on top of normal and injury attrition. Some coaches will not renew their players scholarship if they are not producing on the field, which is not always the athletes fault. If you go into somebody’s living room and say that you will take care of their son, you should do it.
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L.C.
12/26/2018 4:27 PM
allen wrote:expand_more
Lots of big time programs do this and much worst, I appreciate our coaches ethical support. Michigan forces out about 5-7 players per year on top of normal and injury attrition. Some coaches will not renew their players scholarship if they are not producing on the field, which is not always the athletes fault. If you go into somebody’s living room and say that you will take care of their son, you should do it.

They do it because it works. Four of the five teams with the most turnover are among the top 6 teams in the conference. The fact that Ohio and Buffalo were able to have good teams without turning over players so fast is to their credit.
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ExCat21
12/26/2018 4:37 PM
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
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Diamond Cat
12/27/2018 6:47 PM
Fiami going to need all they can get because our Boys ain't here to play no school!
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OhioCatFan
1/1/2019 10:59 AM
Diamond Cat wrote:expand_more
Fiami going to need all they can get because our Boys ain't here to play no school!
Hey Bobcats can play school, play football, and chew gum all at that same time! ;-)
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Mark Lembright '85
1/1/2019 1:54 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Fiami going to need all they can get because our Boys ain't here to play no school!
Hey Bobcats can play school, play football, and chew gum all at that same time! ;-)
And do all quite well! Well, I don’t know about the chewing gum.......
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doubledribble
1/3/2019 6:24 PM
In the past 3 to 4 years, things have been changing in Oxford, and the first place it has shown up is in their recruiting. They have gone from middle of the pack in the league when it comes to their football facilities, to a very clear first place. Their new indoor practice facility was long overdue and was their first positive step up. The next improvement was the the new home of Miami football in the endzone next to the practice facility. This complex holds big time locker rooms, team lounges, amazing training room facilities, coaching and staff offices, meeting rooms that are something to see. The only place I have seen that is head and shoulders above Miami's is the new home of Clemson football. It will be interesting to see how these improvements show up in their recruiting classes.
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cc-cat
1/4/2019 9:31 PM
different (but more nationally powerful) Miami - but with coaching change where does Miami FLA fall?
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Diamond Cat
1/5/2019 11:50 AM
Mark Lembright '85 wrote:expand_more
Fiami going to need all they can get because our Boys ain't here to play no school!
Hey Bobcats can play school, play football, and chew gum all at that same time! ;-)
And do all quite well! Well, I don’t know about the chewing gum.......
Hope you boys know I was playing on a Tweet from a past Luckeye QB :)
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OhioCatFan
1/7/2019 12:18 PM
Diamond Cat wrote:expand_more
Fiami going to need all they can get because our Boys ain't here to play no school!
Hey Bobcats can play school, play football, and chew gum all at that same time! ;-)
And do all quite well! Well, I don’t know about the chewing gum.......
Hope you boys know I was playing on a Tweet from a past Luckeye QB :)
Yes, I knew that. Surprising thing was, after making that infamous tweet, he actually got serious about school and did fairly well academically. Nevertheless, that tweet shall live in infamy! ;-)
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Sean Gallagher
1/9/2019 8:51 PM
Miami raided a very talented Colerain High School (North Cincinnati) team and scored some quality D1 recruits for their incoming class in 2019. My St Ed Eagles defeated Colerain in the D1 State title game, but Colerain had some exceptional players. All of the Colerain stars seem to be going to Miami.

I'm not sure how OU recruiters evaluate the Ohio high school D1 landscape. It seems they're more enamored with JC transfers. That just may be my perception and not a true reality.

I do think there are a lot of great D1 high school players that would be great for the MAC, but they are never recruited. Some excel at the Big 10 or go out of state or attend smaller schools and a lot of them are really successful.
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colobobcat66
1/9/2019 9:21 PM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
Miami raided a very talented Colerain High School (North Cincinnati) team and scored some quality D1 recruits for their incoming class in 2019. My St Ed Eagles defeated Colerain in the D1 State title game, but Colerain had some exceptional players. All of the Colerain stars seem to be going to Miami.

I'm not sure how OU recruiters evaluate the Ohio high school D1 landscape. It seems they're more enamored with JC transfers. That just may be my perception and not a true reality.

I do think there are a lot of great D1 high school players that would be great for the MAC, but they are never recruited. Some excel at the Big 10 or go out of state or attend smaller schools and a lot of them are really successful.
Miami has 8 signees from Ohio of their 29 recruits, Ohio has 8 from Ohio of their 19 recruits. Miami has 1 JC, Ohio has 2. All 4 of the Miami Colerain guys are 247 sports 2 star players.
Per Teds recruiting page, Ohio offered 48 Ohio players this year.
Not seeing your point.
Last Edited: 1/9/2019 9:27:01 PM by colobobcat66
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L.C.
1/9/2019 10:27 PM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
... ... It seems they're more enamored with JC transfers. That just may be my perception and not a true reality. ....

Ohio typically has 2 JUCO players a year, a moderate number. BG and EMU are a couple schools who have done more than that. EMU has averaged 5 a year, for example. Akron hasn't had that many JUCOs, but instead has had a lot of transfers, which in the end are about the same thing, except that they aren't reported in the recruiting results, so numbers are hard to quantify.

It definitely is true that Miami is on the low end in terms of JUCO players, with only 2 in the last 5 years combined, but that gets us back to to the initial question in the thread. If all the players Miami has offered in the last 5 years were still on their team, they would have 114 players on scholarship (more if you include transfers, but I don't know how many of those they have). Where did the other 29 players go (they have to be at 85 or less)?
Last Edited: 1/9/2019 10:30:35 PM by L.C.
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Sean Gallagher
1/15/2019 8:53 AM
colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Ohio offered 48 Ohio players this year.
Not seeing your point.
Any chance you know how many of those 48 were to kids from Ed's, Ignatius, Moeller, Elder, St. X or Hoban?

Wondering if Ohio offered QB Garrett Dzuro, RB Jordan Castelberry or SS Casen Kolesar from Eds?
Last Edited: 1/15/2019 8:55:09 AM by Sean Gallagher
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L.C.
1/15/2019 10:00 AM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
Ohio offered 48 Ohio players this year.
Not seeing your point.
Any chance you know how many of those 48 were to kids from Ed's, Ignatius, Moeller, Elder, St. X or Hoban?

Wondering if Ohio offered QB Garrett Dzuro, RB Jordan Castelberry or SS Casen Kolesar from Eds?

Ted spends a lot of time maintaining a recruiting page:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/football/recruiting.asp

From the schools you mention, he shows an offer to
S Darnell Shields of St. Edwards - chose Cincinnati.
ILB Tommy Eichenberg of Ignatious - Ohio State
S Jeff Elad of Ignatious - Ohio
OG./DT Alex Merritt, Moeller - EMU
ILB Thomas Kiessling, St Xavier - no choice yet
QB Chase Wolf, St. Xavier - Wisconsin
DE Blake Basevich, St. Xavier - Cincinnati
S Matt Salopek, Hoban - Miami
DE Daeshon Martin, Hoban - Cincinnati
Ath Nate Bauer, Hoban - Toledo
Last Edited: 1/15/2019 10:38:41 AM by L.C.
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L.C.
1/15/2019 10:36 AM
Competing head on head with Miami, the following players had offers from both schools:
Six players chose Ohio over Miami and other offers:
TE Casey Clanton, AZ - Chose Ohio .8198
OT Jay Amburgey, Reynoldsburg - Chose Ohio .8265
OT Luke Vannest, Canton Hoover - Chose Ohio .7297
DT Jeremiah Burton, Westerville N - Chose Ohio .7998
DT Denzel Daxon, FL - Chose Ohio .8709
OLB Ben Johnson, Pickerington North - Chose Ohio .7903

Six players chose Miami over Ohio and other offers:
S Matt Salopek, Hoban - Miami .8104
OG Caleb Schafer, IN - Chose Miami .8248
S Julius Wood, Walnut Ridge - Miami .8366
ILB Max Wynn, Centerville - Miami .8098
CB Trevon Booker, IN - Miami .8003
WR Syncere Jones, Colerain - Miami .7897

Many players chose a P5 school:
RB Anthony Williams, IL - Chose Michigan St .8601
OG Nick Samac, Mentor - Chose Michigan St .8640
OT Daymon Kaylor, IN - Chose Michigan St .848
OT Spencer Brown, MI - Chose Michigan St .8804
OT Cam Craig, Dublin Jeromoe - Chose Purdue .8343
TE Eric All, Fairfield - Chose Michigan .8937
RB Delbert Mims, IN - chose Vandy .8302
RB Keyon Brooks, GA - chose Vandy .8552
DT Isiah Gibson, Springfield - chose Kentucky .8722
OT Jarrod Hufford, Licking Valley - Chose Iowa St .8594
QB Sam Johnson, MI - chose Boston College .8733
RB Taj Gary, GA - chose Virginia Tech .8635
DE Jackson Ness, Upper Arlington - Chose Boston College .8559
S Jaden Davis, FL - Oklahoma .9138
DE Darius Robinson, MI - Missouri .8688
S Kerry Martin, WV - West Virginia .8539

Four chose something else:
OG Ben Hoitink, WI - Chose Penn .8298
OLB Brody Ingle, Lasalle - Cincinnai .8181
OLB Armoni Dixon, IL - Tulane .8254
S Justin Clark, IL - Northern Illinois .8415

Two haven't made a choice yet, or perhaps aren't eligible:
ILB Thomas Kiessling, St. Xavier - No Choice .7897
CB Kairr Elam, FL - no choice .9689
Last Edited: 1/15/2019 10:42:02 AM by L.C.
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Sean Gallagher
1/26/2019 3:28 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Ohio offered 48 Ohio players this year.
Not seeing your point.
Any chance you know how many of those 48 were to kids from Ed's, Ignatius, Moeller, Elder, St. X or Hoban?

Wondering if Ohio offered QB Garrett Dzuro, RB Jordan Castelberry or SS Casen Kolesar from Eds?

Ted spends a lot of time maintaining a recruiting page:
https://www.bobcatattack.com/football/recruiting.asp

From the schools you mention, he shows an offer to
S Darnell Shields of St. Edwards - chose Cincinnati.
ILB Tommy Eichenberg of Ignatious - Ohio State
S Jeff Elad of Ignatious - Ohio
OG./DT Alex Merritt, Moeller - EMU
ILB Thomas Kiessling, St Xavier - no choice yet
QB Chase Wolf, St. Xavier - Wisconsin
DE Blake Basevich, St. Xavier - Cincinnati
S Matt Salopek, Hoban - Miami
DE Daeshon Martin, Hoban - Cincinnati
Ath Nate Bauer, Hoban - Toledo
Appreciate that link and your insight. St Edward RB Castelberry and FS Kolesar chose Michigan, but I think they'd have been better served in Athens. QB Dzuro is just a really tough kid that led Eds in the upset of a heavily favored Colerain team in the D-1 title game. He was 12 for 12 for 150 and 2 TDs in the title game. Here's a short video on him after beating St Ignatius in the playoffs on the way to the title. Very tough kid who played big in big games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPqTs5yHrlc
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/26/2019 8:10 PM
ExCat21 wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
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Sean Gallagher
1/26/2019 10:40 PM
Buckeye to Bobcat wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
Good point. Solich went to the old Holy Name High School in the old Slavic Village section of Cleveland. The St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro's parents grew up in Slavic Village. I'd love to see him walk on at OU, just for the attitude he brings. Eds runs the same offense as OU. You can see it here if you scroll down to all his game highlights.
http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/garrett-dzuro/-JyXorn6EeW...

To keep this thread on point... He won't be going to Miami!
Last Edited: 1/26/2019 10:43:31 PM by Sean Gallagher
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L.C.
1/27/2019 8:22 AM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
Good point. Solich went to the old Holy Name High School in the old Slavic Village section of Cleveland. The St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro's parents grew up in Slavic Village. I'd love to see him walk on at OU, just for the attitude he brings. Eds runs the same offense as OU. You can see it here if you scroll down to all his game highlights.
http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/garrett-dzuro/-JyXorn6EeW...

To keep this thread on point... He won't be going to Miami!

If he's tough, and he can't earn the QB job, keep in mind that Ohio has used former high school QBs at many positions. There is a long list of former QBs that have played WR, and some of those that come to mind are Mario Dovell, Brendan Cope, Andrew Meyer, as well as Cherry and Minter. They had a former QB at OLB a few years ago, Jelani Wosely. David Burroughs, the third string RB was a former high school QB. I'm pretty sure that some former QBs have ended up at DB as well, though I can't think of any at the moment.
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Buckeye to Bobcat
1/29/2019 10:46 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
Good point. Solich went to the old Holy Name High School in the old Slavic Village section of Cleveland. The St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro's parents grew up in Slavic Village. I'd love to see him walk on at OU, just for the attitude he brings. Eds runs the same offense as OU. You can see it here if you scroll down to all his game highlights.
http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/garrett-dzuro/-JyXorn6EeW...

To keep this thread on point... He won't be going to Miami!

If he's tough, and he can't earn the QB job, keep in mind that Ohio has used former high school QBs at many positions. There is a long list of former QBs that have played WR, and some of those that come to mind are Mario Dovell, Brendan Cope, Andrew Meyer, as well as Cherry and Minter. They had a former QB at OLB a few years ago, Jelani Wosely. David Burroughs, the third string RB was a former high school QB. I'm pretty sure that some former QBs have ended up at DB as well, though I can't think of any at the moment.
It goes back to the 8 man football mentality of corn country. The best athletes in 8-man football tend to play quarterback since they are mobile. In addition, since they are reading the game from back there, they tend to have higher football IQ. Just an observation, not trying to sound like a Harvard Elitist on this one. Makes sense to hunt for QB's that are solid athletes and are smart enough to break down plays in a hurry when watching film or on the field.
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Sean Gallagher
2/9/2019 12:59 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
Good point. Solich went to the old Holy Name High School in the old Slavic Village section of Cleveland. The St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro's parents grew up in Slavic Village. I'd love to see him walk on at OU, just for the attitude he brings. Eds runs the same offense as OU. You can see it here if you scroll down to all his game highlights.
http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/garrett-dzuro/-JyXorn6EeW...

To keep this thread on point... He won't be going to Miami!

If he's tough, and he can't earn the QB job, keep in mind that Ohio has used former high school QBs at many positions. There is a long list of former QBs that have played WR, and some of those that come to mind are Mario Dovell, Brendan Cope, Andrew Meyer, as well as Cherry and Minter. They had a former QB at OLB a few years ago, Jelani Wosely. David Burroughs, the third string RB was a former high school QB. I'm pretty sure that some former QBs have ended up at DB as well, though I can't think of any at the moment.
St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro picked U. Mass. Oh well, at least it's not Miami.
He is one of the toughest kids I've watched in recent years.
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/7076881/5c06b5a64deb22122cc8...
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ChiCat2018
2/11/2019 11:13 AM
Sean Gallagher wrote:expand_more
And we have the best walk-on program in the nation. Hands down!
+1. This is the hidden ace of Ohio football and if we ever move from outside of the Solich tree I hope we continue to maintain this part of it. Talk about a part that is vital for schools with our recruiting territory.
Good point. Solich went to the old Holy Name High School in the old Slavic Village section of Cleveland. The St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro's parents grew up in Slavic Village. I'd love to see him walk on at OU, just for the attitude he brings. Eds runs the same offense as OU. You can see it here if you scroll down to all his game highlights.
http://www.maxpreps.com/athlete/garrett-dzuro/-JyXorn6EeW...

To keep this thread on point... He won't be going to Miami!

If he's tough, and he can't earn the QB job, keep in mind that Ohio has used former high school QBs at many positions. There is a long list of former QBs that have played WR, and some of those that come to mind are Mario Dovell, Brendan Cope, Andrew Meyer, as well as Cherry and Minter. They had a former QB at OLB a few years ago, Jelani Wosely. David Burroughs, the third string RB was a former high school QB. I'm pretty sure that some former QBs have ended up at DB as well, though I can't think of any at the moment.
St Edward QB Garrett Dzuro picked U. Mass. Oh well, at least it's not Miami.
He is one of the toughest kids I've watched in recent years.
https://www.hudl.com/video/3/7076881/5c06b5a64deb22122cc8...
On 247 Sports looks like UMASS was his only D1 offer. Ashland, Lake Erie College and Notre Dame College are the only other schools to give him an offer.
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