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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Which ride should we now get on for football?
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cc-cat
11/14/2019 11:04 AM
Frank is a great guy, valued in the community, his teams do things “the right way” on and off the field, and has had a semblance of success – not winning a conference championship…but certainly lifting us from the ashes and always winning 7…8…9 games a year – this is like winning 17…18…19 games a year in basketball.

And therein lies a parallel. Larry Hunter. 580 winning percentage. One championship and a single second place finish – followed by 6 years of middling results. When he was fired, there were many folks (more often from the local crowd) that were upset – felt it was undeserving. He had served us well. He was a good guy. Represented the University and community well….etc. We hear many of the same things about Frank.

Hunter was let go. It has certainly been a ride since. Absolutely some lows, and higher highs than we’ve ever experienced. In essence went from the nice stable merry-go-round to the hair-raising rollercoaster. As it is now suggested (by some of us) that it is time for Frank to go, we hear everything above: good guy, earned his stripes, fairly successful….all of which we give up if we instead ride the roller coaster – oh my, any success means we will lose that coach (see Groce) and have to start all over again.

So here is the question. Given what we know about the (potential) ride from basketball and the current ride in football, who opts to stay on the football merry-go-round and who thinks it’s time to thank Frank and (like we did in moving on from Hunter) sign up for the roller coaster?
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Pataskala
11/14/2019 3:36 PM
Something to consider:

In the Solich era (2005-present), Ohio has been to the MACCG four times (2006, 2009, 2011, 2016). No wins, but the longest drought between CGs was five years.

Since Hunter was let go in 2001, Ohio has been to the MAC tourney final four times (2005, 2010, 2012, 2013). Three wins, the last in 2012. Currently on a six-year drought without an appearance in the final.
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PhiTau74
11/14/2019 5:08 PM
If Frank was 55 you could make a case for keeping him around since he has good results but he is 75 and best case is 2-3 more years if his health is good. Everybody has to retire at some point.
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Sean Gallagher
11/14/2019 10:33 PM
I must admit, I'm too old for twitter, but... Get on the St Ed Eagle ride! https://twitter.com/SEHS_FOOTBALL

If OU doesn't grab Joe Formani, Oh Well.
Last Edited: 11/14/2019 10:37:52 PM by Sean Gallagher
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OU_Country
11/15/2019 10:57 AM
PhiTau74 wrote:expand_more
If Frank was 55 you could make a case for keeping him around since he has good results but he is 75 and best case is 2-3 more years if his health is good. Everybody has to retire at some point.
Agreed. This is why I say this off-season, the first discussion needs to be, assuming he wants to stay, about creating a plan for succession. The key with that is having assistants who are ready for doing that, or getting them ready. I question whether the type of guy who can be promoted from within, is on the staff at this time. I also admit that I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as many on here in that regard.
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Maddog13
11/15/2019 11:22 AM
The only right way to do this is for all of us critics of Ohio football to challenge the team to a scrimmage. It could be a fundraising event, or we could merely use the money to help pay for whatever serious injuries are inflicted on us by these young men. If we beat Frank and company at their own game than I think we have earned the right to decide what will happen with the program. If not, I say that we humbly agree that we don't know as much about Division I football as our coaching staff does and realize how blessed we are to have the situation that we now have. Any takers? I think that it is time for BobcatAttack members to begin walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. What do you say?
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OhioCatFan
11/15/2019 11:47 AM
Maddog13 wrote:expand_more
The only right way to do this is for all of us critics of Ohio football to challenge the team to a scrimmage. It could be a fundraising event, or we could merely use the money to help pay for whatever serious injuries are inflicted on us by these young men. If we beat Frank and company at their own game than I think we have earned the right to decide what will happen with the program. If not, I say that we humbly agree that we don't know as much about Division I football as our coaching staff does and realize how blessed we are to have the situation that we now have. Any takers? I think that it is time for BobcatAttack members to begin walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. What do you say?
I like this idea. I volunteer to help BTC with the officiating!
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Sam bobcat
11/15/2019 12:31 PM
Maddog13 wrote:expand_more
The only right way to do this is for all of us critics of Ohio football to challenge the team to a scrimmage. It could be a fundraising event, or we could merely use the money to help pay for whatever serious injuries are inflicted on us by these young men. If we beat Frank and company at their own game than I think we have earned the right to decide what will happen with the program. If not, I say that we humbly agree that we don't know as much about Division I football as our coaching staff does and realize how blessed we are to have the situation that we now have. Any takers? I think that it is time for BobcatAttack members to begin walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. What do you say?
Lol...genius.
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cc-cat
11/15/2019 1:57 PM
Sounds like a plan - of course this policy would mean that Billy Hahn would still be our Basketball coach, Joe Carbone would be in the dugout and Brian Burke would be working the sidelines or maybe we could still have Tom Lichtenberg - that would be a treat!!
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OhioCatFan
11/15/2019 3:27 PM
cc-cat wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a plan - of course this policy would mean that Billy Hahn would still be our Basketball coach, Joe Carbone would be in the dugout and Brian Burke would be working the sidelines or maybe we could still have Tom Lichtenberg - that would be a treat!!
The firing of Brian Burke, with the advantage of hindsight, was a real disaster. He was at worst a mediocre coach, and he might have proved to be a very good one. What followed with the OHIO football Wilderness campaign of a decade of horrible football in the Cleve and PapaL Eras.
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Pataskala
11/15/2019 4:23 PM
Maddog13 wrote:expand_more
The only right way to do this is for all of us critics of Ohio football to challenge the team to a scrimmage. It could be a fundraising event, or we could merely use the money to help pay for whatever serious injuries are inflicted on us by these young men. If we beat Frank and company at their own game than I think we have earned the right to decide what will happen with the program. If not, I say that we humbly agree that we don't know as much about Division I football as our coaching staff does and realize how blessed we are to have the situation that we now have. Any takers? I think that it is time for BobcatAttack members to begin walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. What do you say?
The great thing about America is that we who are ignorant can still voice our opinions. And even vote.
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SBH
11/15/2019 4:31 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a plan - of course this policy would mean that Billy Hahn would still be our Basketball coach, Joe Carbone would be in the dugout and Brian Burke would be working the sidelines or maybe we could still have Tom Lichtenberg - that would be a treat!!
The firing of Brian Burke, with the advantage of hindsight, was a real disaster. He was at worst a mediocre coach, and he might have proved to be a very good one. What followed with the OHIO football Wilderness campaign of a decade of horrible football in the Cleve and PapaL Eras.
I believe Burke's firing had as much to do with what his players were doing off the field as on.
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OhioCatFan
11/15/2019 11:40 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
Sounds like a plan - of course this policy would mean that Billy Hahn would still be our Basketball coach, Joe Carbone would be in the dugout and Brian Burke would be working the sidelines or maybe we could still have Tom Lichtenberg - that would be a treat!!
The firing of Brian Burke, with the advantage of hindsight, was a real disaster. He was at worst a mediocre coach, and he might have proved to be a very good one. What followed with the OHIO football Wilderness campaign of a decade of horrible football in the Cleve and PapaL Eras.
I believe Burke's firing had as much to do with what his players were doing off the field as on.
It also might have had something to do with the way he treated his assistant coaches. But, all that being said, he was a better coach than what followed. And his immediate successor also had issues with off the field behavior -- on many levels.
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TWT
11/16/2019 7:50 AM
Programs have cycles. Frank was 6-6 in 2014 in what was by all observers a clear rebuilding year. The IPF also opened in 2014. The wait until next year attitude at that moment made sense. 2019 was not supposed to be a rebuilding year. It was supposed to be Frank's best and perhaps final crack at a MACC. The only milestone he hasn't hit after this season, assuming he wins 1 of the final 2 games is Ohio's all time win record outright. Number 2 on all time Ohio wins and number 1 all time in MAC wins if he can defeat BG or Akron. Does he want to retire out on a decent note after this year as a program cornerstone or does he want to muddle through a losing season next year? Is he better for Ohio on the field at this point or retained by the athletic department as an adviser? Help to draft and fundraise for Peden 2.0. Facilities could be his legacy.
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OhioCatFan
11/16/2019 10:01 AM
Uncle Wes wrote:expand_more
. . . Does he want to retire out on a decent note after this year as a program cornerstone or does he want to muddle through a losing season next year? . . .
What makes you think next year will be a losing season? And, this year might not be either. The only thing I agree with in your analysis is that this year has been disappointing, most of the blame goes to the defense. The offense, with a few exceptions, has performed pretty well. We've lost a number of games this year by close scores. I've noticed in several of our games that true freshmen or red shirt freshmen have performed very well. That's usually a good sign for a program. This year has been an anomaly. I think it highly unlikely that Frank will retire after this season. In fact, as I've stated before I think he'll continue as long as his health allows. Football is his life, and he's not going to give it up easily. No one is going to force him out, unless he has multiple bad seasons in a row, something he's never had in his entire career.
Last Edited: 11/16/2019 10:01:56 AM by OhioCatFan
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71 BOBCAT
11/16/2019 10:14 AM
If you hire a young coach and he is successful, as someone mentioned, he is apt to move on. Frank was not likely to move on after his success due to his age.
Maybe we need to find more coaches like Frank to bring consistent results.
I maintain, that if you looked at our football program this year in August,with an objective eye, you would have to say there were too many skill positions to be replaced for us to be voted to win THE MACC.
I do think that had we forced the same number of turnovers as last year we would have a better record.
In the case of Boals, and I am a fan, I will wonder if he has great success whether he will move on. I would like to think that he could raise this program to a level like Gonzaga and stick around.



GO BOBCATS
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Deciduous Forest Cat
11/16/2019 1:02 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
. . . Does he want to retire out on a decent note after this year as a program cornerstone or does he want to muddle through a losing season next year? . . .
What makes you think next year will be a losing season? And, this year might not be either. The only thing I agree with in your analysis is that this year has been disappointing, most of the blame goes to the defense. The offense, with a few exceptions, has performed pretty well. We've lost a number of games this year by close scores. I've noticed in several of our games that true freshmen or red shirt freshmen have performed very well. That's usually a good sign for a program. This year has been an anomaly. I think it highly unlikely that Frank will retire after this season. In fact, as I've stated before I think he'll continue as long as his health allows. Football is his life, and he's not going to give it up easily. No one is going to force him out, unless he has multiple bad seasons in a row, something he's never had in his entire career.
The offense has been lousy in multiple games. At least Louisiana, Pitt, Buffalo, Miami. We won one of those games, and the D was admirable in three of them.
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PhiTau74
11/16/2019 2:40 PM
Maddog13 wrote:expand_more
The only right way to do this is for all of us critics of Ohio football to challenge the team to a scrimmage. It could be a fundraising event, or we could merely use the money to help pay for whatever serious injuries are inflicted on us by these young men. If we beat Frank and company at their own game than I think we have earned the right to decide what will happen with the program. If not, I say that we humbly agree that we don't know as much about Division I football as our coaching staff does and realize how blessed we are to have the situation that we now have. Any takers? I think that it is time for BobcatAttack members to begin walking the walk instead of just talking the talk. What do you say?
I’m bringing Miles Garrett to play on our side vs the team.
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ou79
11/17/2019 5:29 PM
Any way to post the Messenger article without having to buy a subscription? Or can anyone provide details?
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GoCats105
11/18/2019 1:49 PM
71 BOBCAT wrote:expand_more
If you hire a young coach and he is successful, as someone mentioned, he is apt to move on. Frank was not likely to move on after his success due to his age.
Maybe we need to find more coaches like Frank to bring consistent results.
I maintain, that if you looked at our football program this year in August,with an objective eye, you would have to say there were too many skill positions to be replaced for us to be voted to win THE MACC.
I do think that had we forced the same number of turnovers as last year we would have a better record.
In the case of Boals, and I am a fan, I will wonder if he has great success whether he will move on. I would like to think that he could raise this program to a level like Gonzaga and stick around.



GO BOBCATS
Frank is the absolute outlier in the regard that he's stuck around for so long at a G5 level program. Rocky Long at SDSU is next on the list. But after that?

To find another consistent coach like Frank you're going to have to look at pretty much the same formula: an older coach who is on the backside of his career just looking to stay in the game.

Do we really want to do that again? Younger coaches who move on sometimes leave behind assistants who are successful and consistent...

Matt Campbell -> Jason Candle
PJ Fleck -> Tim Lester
Jerry Kill -> Dave Doeren -> Rod Carey
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OU_Country
11/18/2019 3:01 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
If you hire a young coach and he is successful, as someone mentioned, he is apt to move on. Frank was not likely to move on after his success due to his age.
Maybe we need to find more coaches like Frank to bring consistent results.
I maintain, that if you looked at our football program this year in August,with an objective eye, you would have to say there were too many skill positions to be replaced for us to be voted to win THE MACC.
I do think that had we forced the same number of turnovers as last year we would have a better record.
In the case of Boals, and I am a fan, I will wonder if he has great success whether he will move on. I would like to think that he could raise this program to a level like Gonzaga and stick around.



GO BOBCATS
Frank is the absolute outlier in the regard that he's stuck around for so long at a G5 level program. Rocky Long at SDSU is next on the list. But after that?

To find another consistent coach like Frank you're going to have to look at pretty much the same formula: an older coach who is on the backside of his career just looking to stay in the game.

Do we really want to do that again? Younger coaches who move on sometimes leave behind assistants who are successful and consistent...

Matt Campbell -> Jason Candle
PJ Fleck -> Tim Lester
Jerry Kill -> Dave Doeren -> Rod Carey
Does anyone think there is such an assistant in this program currently?
Last Edited: 11/18/2019 3:02:12 PM by OU_Country
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OhioCatFan
11/18/2019 3:10 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
If you hire a young coach and he is successful, as someone mentioned, he is apt to move on. Frank was not likely to move on after his success due to his age.
Maybe we need to find more coaches like Frank to bring consistent results.
I maintain, that if you looked at our football program this year in August,with an objective eye, you would have to say there were too many skill positions to be replaced for us to be voted to win THE MACC.
I do think that had we forced the same number of turnovers as last year we would have a better record.
In the case of Boals, and I am a fan, I will wonder if he has great success whether he will move on. I would like to think that he could raise this program to a level like Gonzaga and stick around.



GO BOBCATS
Frank is the absolute outlier in the regard that he's stuck around for so long at a G5 level program. Rocky Long at SDSU is next on the list. But after that?

To find another consistent coach like Frank you're going to have to look at pretty much the same formula: an older coach who is on the backside of his career just looking to stay in the game.

Do we really want to do that again? Younger coaches who move on sometimes leave behind assistants who are successful and consistent...

Matt Campbell -> Jason Candle
PJ Fleck -> Tim Lester
Jerry Kill -> Dave Doeren -> Rod Carey
Does anyone think there is such an assistant in this program currently?
If Joe Burrow returns next year as DC? ;-)

Seriously, I had heard rumors at one point that he was being groomed for that position. Not sure if he burned any bridges when he left, but I would kind of doubt it.
Last Edited: 11/18/2019 3:10:36 PM by OhioCatFan
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