If the Bobcats were to drop a division, then no more Pitt, Iowa State, Minnesota or Kansas visiting Peden. [/QUOTE]Iowa State came through Athens 19 years ago. They were 7-5 that year and wouldn't win more than 7 games until 2017. Pitt came through 15 years ago and ended up 5-6 that year. Minnesota played in Athens in 2003. With the exception of Kansas, who is very likely the worst football program in the P5, all of those games were scheduled by a different coaching regime.

They're also, you know, not super exciting games. If the best competitive argument you can make to stay at the FBS level is that over the course of 19 years, 4 P5 teams played in Athens, color me unimpressed.


Why wouldmn't we be playing Penn State and Ohio State? FCS teams play at Ohio State just as frequently as we do. Penn State's played plenty of FCS teams at home.

Why?

[QUOTE=Bobcat1996]
Let's turn the table and ask how would Bobcat hoops fans feel about playing a schedule full of Detroit, Morehead St., Cleveland St., IUPUI, Youngstown, Oakland, Tenn. Tech, UT Martin, Lehigh, VMI, High Point, Evansville and Drexel on top of the regular MAC schools? No more Purdue or back in the day, Kentucky Wildcats playing in the Convo. It doesn't happen every season, but it is nice to play a larger "name" school in Athens in both basketball and football.

What you're talking about is an "opportunity" to get in a playoff. That opportunity may be slim. Ohio would either have to win the MAC title (which, as we know, hasn't happened in 52 years) or otherwise finish in the top 24 teams in 1AA (out of 119, if the MAC dropped to 1AA, in conferences that compete in the playoff). In order to have a real chance at getting into the 1AA playoff a team needs to win at least eight games; last year three seven-win teams made it while more than 20 didn't; six eight-win teams were in while only two were out. To win at least eight games in 1AA Ohio would need to improve in the MAC. Over the past eight years, Ohio has been 5-3 three times, 4-4 three times and 6-2 only twice. That means Ohio would have to win at least two or three OOC games to even have a chance at a playoff. Even then, getting into the playoff would be up to the selection committee. About half the current 1AA teams (53) haven't made the playoffs once in the last five years.

And even though we haven't lost to a 1AA team in the Solich era, that's largely because (a) we've played them all at home and (b) we have a 20 schollie edge over 1AA opponents. Both of those advantages would go away if we dropped to 1AA. And even with those advantages, we struggled against several 1AA teams.

I think most players would rather play in a post-season bowl game practically every year than sit at home in December half the time or more.

You mention the university 'advancing' through athletics. I've got no doubt that's the strategy, but what's your opinion on the success of that strategy?

Yes the Orange are scheduled to play in Athens next season and Iowa State in 2023. I think the UC Bearcats got shoved back to 2026? As for the Ohio State playing FCS schools, they haven't played someone like that in the shoe since 2013. Only once in the last ten seasons has Ohio State played an FCS team. None are on the horizon either as they are moving away from scheduling those teams.

I really enjoyed going to Penn State, Illinois and Kentucky and seeing a win.

The best stretch of success in the modern history of Ohio University involves 0 conference championships.

I don't think anybody's naive enough to think the drop to FCS would mean we're immediately a national contender. We're not a good football school. Full stop. We never have been. Solich's done a lot to improve our standing, but we're still comfortably in the latter half of FBS programs.

If the arguments you're making are as compelling as the arguments for sticking around in FBS get, I don't think it's so cut and dry that anybody who disagrees with you isn't "in their right mind."

In fact, you've only discussed football. The reality is that this conversation's genesis is the budgetary problems OU and universities across the country are facing, and the idea of the entire MAC moving down a level saves money on coaching salaries and scholarships.

That we won't have the same level of athlete on the field, or that we can no longer "make national waves" by going 14-0, or that the quality of play will be lower just doesn't matter all that much to me. Our football program, at it's absolute peak, is mediocre. The student body doesn't care about it, and by and large, alumni don't either. I think you'd be hard-pressed to make the case that our football program has accomplished what FBS programs, when run well, accomplish for their universities.

Given the budgetary crisis, it seems there are more people willing to acknowledge that and who are questioning the value of continuing to dump money into something with such questionable returns.

I think it's you who doesn't realize what I'm asking for. I'm asking for money from football to be diverted towards spending that's in line with the actual mission of Ohio University. And if there are more dropped passes as a result, I'm totally cool with that.

Which assumption am I making that suggests otherwise? Also, revenue doesn't equal profit. We still lose money on football. I think we could lose less of it by dropping down a level, and don't believe football is part of our university's mission.

Oh, and take student fees out of the equation and then tell me about all of our revenue from FBS football.
[/QUOTE]Its not about profit its about margin. If you spend 500,000 more but make 2.5 million more you are coming out ahead.

500k isn't significant on an annual university budget of $785 million. See page 53 of the fact book.

https://www.ohio.edu/instres/factbook.pdf

All revenue flows whether directly or indirectly through the football program. It sets the value of the licensing and marketing for the athletic department, the TV deal money, then the majority of the direct ticket and donation revenue.

FCS football Ohio loses millions more than it does currently with a loss of about 5 million per year. You don't cut the main revenue stream in football; you cut sports that are not generating revenue.

This is your argument; there are 130 FBS teams and Ohio since it regularly in the second division of that 130 that its mediocre. But what you are not considering is that by virtue of being in the G5 we will be in the bottom 65 or so programs. Ranking Ohio against the P5 isn't a fair comparison.

To show you we've knocked on that door of that potential, to have the type of team that can play in a January 1st bowl game.

I don't want to nit pick over every statistic but Ohio's had very good performances in each unit over the past 15 years or so.


Don't you think former players care and follow the program?

If this about the money then why not advocate a move down to Division 2? A place where Ohio could compete in all sports for a national championship?

I'm not sure I buy that FCS schools are a lower caliber of academic institution. Maybe you're qualifying that with "public FCS schools"? Because FCS includes the Ivy League and Patriot League, which are better academically than most if not all FBS conferences.

I'd also like to see the data on why FCS doesn't make sense financially. You estimate 500k annually in coaching salary savings. Add in the cost savings related to fewer salaries. What money's being lost? TV money. Maybe some gate revenue, though we gave a lot of that away for TV money already. How do the numbers look?

I like option C...break the Non-P5 into new tier of college football with a playoff. I hate the concept of being in a "division" that we absolutely have 0 chance of ever winning. Even consistent programs that play a tough schedule and go undefeated have proven it won't happen. Just created a different division...still play P5 teams in non-conference.

Even consistent programs that play a tough schedule and go undefeated have proven it won't happen.

Think about schools like Boise State, Cincinnati and UCF. They've been on the closest cusp you can be and the P5 would love nothing more than to shut the out from getting their piece of the pie. The only way to improve your standing is making it to one of those leagues (Utah and TCU are excellent examples of this).

I'm not a fan of Boise State, but part of me wishes they don't lose to Nevada in 2010. They were ranked #3 in the BCS at the time and were beating their opponents to a pulp. I doubt they leapfrog Oregon to make it to the title game, but the argument was there. TCU finished that year #2 after going 13-0 in the MWC and beating Wisconsin in the Rose Bowl.