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Topic: The Toledo team that got off the bus in Athens . . .
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OhioCatFan
11/17/2021 12:36 AM
was unfortunately the one that had Notre Dame on the ropes with less than two minutes to go in the game and not the one that lost to hapless Colorado State. We could have beaten the latter but had no chance against the former.

My other observations are:

1. We played very well against Toledo's second and third team in the fourth quarter.

2. That onside kick was a thing of beauty against what I think was UT's first team special teams.

3. Exchanging FGs for the opponent's TDs usually ends up being a losing proposition.

4. I'm probably completely stupid for sitting out in the cold for 4 quarters and not leaving until the clock was 00:00 in the 4th quarter.

5. Albin is a very nice guy and has kept his team playing hard, but may not be a good head coach and maybe should not be given a second year.

6. It seemed to me that Toledo's players were generally more athletic, quicker and bigger than our guys. Perhaps, Casper 71 is right about the need for more 3 star recruits.

7. If we beat BG we can say we beat the team that beat Minnesota! (ha-ha). I do think that if we beat BG it would be the only MAC team in history to beat a B1G team and end up in last place in MAC. Correct me if I'm wrong.

8. I'm rambling and will shut up!
Last Edited: 11/17/2021 12:39:21 AM by OhioCatFan
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GoCats105
11/17/2021 9:23 AM
Overall the entire MAC West makes absolutely no sense this season. With a Ball State win in one of their final two, the entire division will be bowl eligible.

Northern Illinois - Picked last in the preseason MAC poll, is currently a full game ahead of 2nd place CMU and an overall record of 7-3. On the flip side, they are a baffling 20 points away from being 1-9. Upset ACC member Ga Tech.

CMU - Picked 4th in the preseason. They've played seven games within 12 points or less, including a one point loss to NIU.

EMU - Picked 5th in the preseason. Now 7-4 after last night. This marks just the sixth time EMU has reached seven wins since 1975, and three have come under Chris Creighton. Other than a blowout loss to Wisconsin, their other three losses have all been within one score each.

Toledo - Picked 2nd in the preseason. As OCF mentioned, played ND close but then played terrible against an even worse Colorado State. Somehow beat conference front runner Ball State, but lost to NIU by two. Playing BG, Ohio and Akron in three consecutive weeks probably just saved their bowl hopes. Four of their five losses are within three points or less.

Ball State - Picked to win the division in the preseason. Things looked pretty dire starting 1-3 to begin the year, then they went on a tear winning three straight over Army, WMU and EMU. They've lost two of their last three though, both losses within seven points or less. To get bowl eligible they need a win over CMU or Buffalo. Given how this season has gone that's not guaranteed.

Western Michigan - Picked 3rd in the preseason. They looked like they were about to run away with the league at the beginning of the year, starting out 4-1 with wins over Pitt, a good San Jose State and East favorite Buffalo. They've gone 2-4 since and unlike the rest of the division, most of their games haven't really been that close outside of a five point win over Akron and one point loss last night to EMU. They could be a huge spoiler beating NIU in their finale.
Last Edited: 11/17/2021 9:25:44 AM by GoCats105
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Pataskala
11/17/2021 9:42 AM
Preseason picks always have to be viewed with skepticism, especially in leagues like the MAC, where an injury or two can make a big difference and the media usually make picks based on last year's performance.

As for Toledo, they certainly came better prepared. They looked at our worst-in-the-MAC pass defense and came out throwing. They were out of sync in the first quarter, so they shifted to the run and we just couldn't stop them. Some of it was poor tackling but much of it was they just out-muscled, out-hustled, and out-coached us.

Oh, and the reason the MAC West will have all six teams bowl eligible is because the East is so pathetic this season. The East is 4-11 vs the West, with only MOFO having a winning record vs the West (2-1). Buffalo can still go 2-1, but they have to beat NIU tonight and at BSU next week. The only other crossover game left is Akron at Toledo next week.
Last Edited: 11/17/2021 10:54:48 AM by Pataskala
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Urban Bobcat
11/17/2021 11:37 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Preseason picks always have to be viewed with skepticism, especially in leagues like the MAC, where an injury or two can make a big difference and the media usually make picks based on last year's performance.

As for Toledo, they certainly came better prepared. They looked at our worst-in-the-MAC pass defense and came out throwing. They were out of sync in the first quarter, so they shifted to the run and we just couldn't stop them. Some of it was poor tackling but much of it was they just out-muscled, out-hustled, and out-coached us.

Oh, and the reason the MAC West will have all six teams bowl eligible is because the East is so pathetic this season. The East is 4-11 vs the West, with only MOFO having a winning record vs the West (2-1). Buffalo can still go 2-1, but they have to beat NIU tonight and at BSU next week. The only other crossover game left is Akron at Toledo next week.
Out-coached us? No way!
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OhioCatFan
11/17/2021 11:59 AM
I remember in the first game against Syracuse we had so many busted tackles and guys totally whiffing tackles that it looked like The Orange had so much faster players. I chalked that up better athletes on an ACC team. However, last night, and at other times this year against MAC opponents, I noticed the same thing. I hate to say it, but this year, for whatever reason, we either don't have athletes across the board of better than average MAC-level talent, or we are not coaching basic things like tackling very well. I will say there are some exceptions, like that freshman RB Bangura. Though I don't follow recruiting all that closely, those on this board who do say we are in for a very down year based on commitments and interest so far. I think the administration needs to do something before we go into a decade-long football funk.
Last Edited: 11/17/2021 12:00:27 PM by OhioCatFan
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Casper71
11/17/2021 5:59 PM
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
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OhioCatFan
11/17/2021 8:45 PM
Casper71 wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
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Bobcat110
11/17/2021 10:58 PM
They weren’t the worst MAC team, but a very bad 2018 Akron team (2-6 in conference play) beat Northwestern that went on to win the Big Ten West Division. Kent (1-7) and CMU (0-8) were only teams worse that year. It was fun ragging on OSU fans about playing a Northwestern team in Big Ten championship that couldn’t beat a bottom of the MAC Akron team.
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BillyTheCat
11/17/2021 11:12 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
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OhioCatFan
11/17/2021 11:33 PM
Bobcat110 wrote:expand_more
They weren’t the worst MAC team, but a very bad 2018 Akron team (2-6 in conference play) beat Northwestern that went on to win the Big Ten West Division. Kent (1-7) and CMU (0-8) were only teams worse that year. It was fun ragging on OSU fans about playing a Northwestern team in Big Ten championship that couldn’t beat a bottom of the MAC Akron team.
Yes, that's close to what this year could be if the Bobcats win. Now, if BG manages to beat OHIO (OhioBobcats assures us that won't happen), it might be even closer to the 2018 situation you describe. Thanks for this information.
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OhioCatFan
11/17/2021 11:37 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
So, you really think Frank would be 3-7 so far this season if he was still at the helm? The fans next to me last night didn't think so. They were all in their 30s (or close) and they stood up as a group and for several minutes chanted, "We want Solich!" This was just a few rows from the OHIO bench. It was late in the game when OHIO look hopelessly behind.
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BillyTheCat
11/17/2021 11:42 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
So, you really think Frank would be 3-7 so far this season if he was still at the helm? The fans next to me last night didn't think so. They were all in their 30s (or close) and they stood up as a group and for several minutes chanted, "We want Solich!" This was just a few rows from the OHIO bench. It was late in the game when OHIO look hopelessly behind.
At best 4 wins. Yes I believe that. Last spring we were not very good and played none of the decent teams. Frank’s record speaks for itself, recruiting declined, wins were largely against poor teams. And I probably excreted more football knowledge this morning than those 30 year olds sitting next to you
Last Edited: 11/18/2021 12:01:56 PM by BillyTheCat
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Pataskala
11/17/2021 11:51 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
So, you really think Frank would be 3-7 so far this season if he was still at the helm? The fans next to me last night didn't think so. They were all in their 30s (or close) and they stood up as a group and for several minutes chanted, "We want Solich!" This was just a few rows from the OHIO bench. It was late in the game when OHIO look hopelessly behind.
You can bet that a Solich-led team would've beaten Duquesne and probably Buffalo. So we would probably be 5-6, 4-3 at worst, and still in the hunt for the division title.
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GoCats105
11/18/2021 9:00 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
You never realize how bad the schedules were until you go back and look at them. Designed for six home games and six wins, with a sweetener usually getting our head kicked in by a Power 5. And I always go back to recruiting. Ohio has never been in the Top tier of recruiting in the MAC, which is pretty strange considering Frank's "stability" was generally seen as a good thing that no one else had.
Last Edited: 11/18/2021 9:01:26 AM by GoCats105
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OU_Country
11/18/2021 9:37 AM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
You can bet that a Solich-led team would've beaten Duquesne and probably Buffalo. So we would probably be 5-6, 4-3 at worst, and still in the hunt for the division title.
In short, the same as most Solich years: Just good enough to be in the hunt to go to Detroit, but never truly good enough to be a threat to win the MAC.

This is where I go back to the question of "What are they doing? What is the goal?"

If Ohio Athletics says they're serious about winning a MAC title sometime in the next decade, they can't possibly consider the concept of retaining Albin past this year. If they just want to be in the D1 football conversation because they simply have a football program that shows up on National TV 2-3 times a year, and care less about winning, then carry on and run out the string with Albin's contract.
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Mike Johnson
11/18/2021 11:54 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
So, you really think Frank would be 3-7 so far this season if he was still at the helm? The fans next to me last night didn't think so. They were all in their 30s (or close) and they stood up as a group and for several minutes chanted, "We want Solich!" This was just a few rows from the OHIO bench. It was late in the game when OHIO look hopelessly behind.
At best 4 wins. Yes I believe that. Last spring we were not very good and played none of the decent teams. Frank’s record speaks for itself, recruiting declined, wins were largely against poor teams. And I probably excreted more football knowledge this morning than those 30 year olds sitting next to you
Your innate sense of modesty is showing. 😉
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BillyTheCat
11/18/2021 12:03 PM
Mike Johnson wrote:expand_more
OhioCatFan, you know I have not been very impressed with recruiting over the last 15 years. I think we coach guys up. We just don’t have enough good quality athletes at the same time to get to the next level…whatever that means.
I'm not sure you were always right about that assertion, but it does seem to be the case now. Maybe Frank was just better at covering up personnel deficits with good game decision and game day coaching. I do think we "coached up" a lot of diamonds in the rough, and I'm sure Albin was part of that, but there seems to be some missing cogs right now.
We’ve played a horrid schedule for 15 years in one of the worse division of any conference in America. It’s funny how we hailed Frank’s “walk-in program” but ignore the fact that, wallops is what we were getting, and we’ve still won zero titles. The program is where it is after 15 years, not because of 4 months of the new guy.
So, you really think Frank would be 3-7 so far this season if he was still at the helm? The fans next to me last night didn't think so. They were all in their 30s (or close) and they stood up as a group and for several minutes chanted, "We want Solich!" This was just a few rows from the OHIO bench. It was late in the game when OHIO look hopelessly behind.
At best 4 wins. Yes I believe that. Last spring we were not very good and played none of the decent teams. Frank’s record speaks for itself, recruiting declined, wins were largely against poor teams. And I probably excreted more football knowledge this morning than those 30 year olds sitting next to you
Your innate sense of modesty is showing. 😉
Not modesty, simply fact.
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TWT
11/20/2021 2:36 PM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I remember in the first game against Syracuse we had so many busted tackles and guys totally whiffing tackles that it looked like The Orange had so much faster players. I chalked that up better athletes on an ACC team. However, last night, and at other times this year against MAC opponents, I noticed the same thing. I hate to say it, but this year, for whatever reason, we either don't have athletes across the board of better than average MAC-level talent, or we are not coaching basic things like tackling very well. I will say there are some exceptions, like that freshman RB Bangura. Though I don't follow recruiting all that closely, those on this board who do say we are in for a very down year based on commitments and interest so far. I think the administration needs to do something before we go into a decade-long football funk.
I started watching this game noticing Toledo keeping Ohio from doing much in the red zone and the thought in my mind is the first half reminded me of the Syracuse game. In the third quarter it became like the Syracuse game with that transfer from Kentucky running all over Ohio.

That said Ohio only lost by 12 and the last 5-6 years we haven't endured those November blowouts. A game like Toledo 8-10 years ago Ohio would have given up 50 points. The good old days were not that great.
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TWT
11/20/2021 2:49 PM
OU_Country wrote:expand_more
You can bet that a Solich-led team would've beaten Duquesne and probably Buffalo. So we would probably be 5-6, 4-3 at worst, and still in the hunt for the division title.
In short, the same as most Solich years: Just good enough to be in the hunt to go to Detroit, but never truly good enough to be a threat to win the MAC.

This is where I go back to the question of "What are they doing? What is the goal?"

If Ohio Athletics says they're serious about winning a MAC title sometime in the next decade, they can't possibly consider the concept of retaining Albin past this year. If they just want to be in the D1 football conversation because they simply have a football program that shows up on National TV 2-3 times a year, and care less about winning, then carry on and run out the string with Albin's contract.
During Solich's retirement video he and Julie said the goal was to be one of the very top programs of the country. Further heights than ever before.

Is this honest and fair thing to say to the fans when you are spending near the bottom of FBS?
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