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Topic: So you want to join a new conference?
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Alan Swank
10/27/2025 8:58 AM
Tymaster wrote:expand_more
An inside look at what Texas State pitched to the PAC.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6743652/2025/10/23/pac-1... /

"The Bobcats’ revenue-sharing budget across all sports is expected to grow from $4 million in the 2026 fiscal year to $7.2 million in 2029. Football’s pool will almost double (from $2.5 million to $4.9 million). Men’s basketball will increase from $600,000 to $1.1 million."

"The document touted Texas State’s “unwavering” commitment to football, citing GJ Kinne’s position as the Sun Belt’s highest-paid coach and promising future investments that would “position the program for long-term success in the Pac-12.” That sport’s budget is projected to expand from $14.1 million to $20 million from 2024-27."
I'm not crazy about leaving the MAC but if it's something that a school must do to stay alive in the top division(s) of football and basketball, then so-be-it. I figure w/ NIL and the crazy tv deals along with the playoff system, the MACs days are probably numbered.
Rod McDavis more than hinted at this when he was on campus last month for the McDavis Hall festivities. The gap just continues to grow.
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bobcatsquared
10/27/2025 9:34 AM
Not sure what's older and more juvenile, Bobcat 2000's posts or OCF's consistent replies to his posts.
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Tymaster
10/27/2025 10:06 AM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Not sure what's older and more juvenile, Bobcat 2000's posts or OCF's consistent replies to his posts.
Throwing out a conference that no longer exists was an interesting move! :)
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Tymaster
10/27/2025 10:44 AM
What do people think of the idea of a Group of Five playoff? Yes, it would be second tier and perhaps it would be akin to the NIT but wouldn't meaningful December games be just as enticing as bowl games in places like Detroit and Boise?
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GoCats105
10/27/2025 11:04 AM
Tymaster wrote:expand_more
What do people think of the idea of a Group of Five playoff? Yes, it would be second tier and perhaps it would be akin to the NIT but wouldn't meaningful December games be just as enticing as bowl games in places like Detroit and Boise?
I've long been a proponent of playing for an actual championship instead of these woebegone bowl games that in this era offer almost no value. The old adage that these games offer extra practice/game reps for your players is out the window now because of the transfer portal. The game itself is as exciting as watching my neighbor cut his grass. The juice isn't worth the squeeze money wise, especially considering all bowl revenue is split between the conference. Unless they started promising games against Power conference opponents (hint: they won't), then the bowl games are nothing but glorified exhibitions against peer schools IMO.

The problem is you have about 50-60 schools in a quagmire. They rely on the games with bigger schools to balance their budgets and the sliver of hope that a playoff game will put a large(r) sum of money in their conferences' accounts. A handful of schools could actually pull this off every year (Boise, Wazzu, Oregon St, Tulane, Memphis, etc.), but schools like Ohio, App St, WKU and the like aren't even in THAT stratosphere without major financial assistance from an anonymous donor.

I don't think a 2nd tier playoff is the answer, but eventually we're probably going to see some sort of blending of the lines between top tier FCS (NDSU, SDSU, etc.) and the bottom tier FBS (MAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, MW) so our own playoff "could" happen. Again, the big question remains if the Big Ten and SEC break off and do their own thing. Then what happens to all of those other schools?
Last Edited: 10/27/2025 11:11:13 AM by GoCats105
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Tymaster
10/27/2025 12:11 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
What do people think of the idea of a Group of Five playoff? Yes, it would be second tier and perhaps it would be akin to the NIT but wouldn't meaningful December games be just as enticing as bowl games in places like Detroit and Boise?
I've long been a proponent of playing for an actual championship instead of these woebegone bowl games that in this era offer almost no value. The old adage that these games offer extra practice/game reps for your players is out the window now because of the transfer portal. The game itself is as exciting as watching my neighbor cut his grass. The juice isn't worth the squeeze money wise, especially considering all bowl revenue is split between the conference. Unless they started promising games against Power conference opponents (hint: they won't), then the bowl games are nothing but glorified exhibitions against peer schools IMO.

The problem is you have about 50-60 schools in a quagmire. They rely on the games with bigger schools to balance their budgets and the sliver of hope that a playoff game will put a large(r) sum of money in their conferences' accounts. A handful of schools could actually pull this off every year (Boise, Wazzu, Oregon St, Tulane, Memphis, etc.), but schools like Ohio, App St, WKU and the like aren't even in THAT stratosphere without major financial assistance from an anonymous donor.

I don't think a 2nd tier playoff is the answer, but eventually we're probably going to see some sort of blending of the lines between top tier FCS (NDSU, SDSU, etc.) and the bottom tier FBS (MAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, MW) so our own playoff "could" happen. Again, the big question remains if the Big Ten and SEC break off and do their own thing. Then what happens to all of those other schools?

Well articulated. Better than a knuckle dragger like me could write. You could, in this hypothetical scenario, get creative. The Myrtle Beach and Frisco type bowls could serve as game sites. If a team like Boise State or those late 90s/early 00s Marshall or Miami teams could opt for the big boy playoffs.
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OhioCatFan
10/27/2025 3:03 PM
bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
Not sure what's older and more juvenile, Bobcat 2000's posts or OCF's consistent replies to his posts.
You are slipping. Your insults are not nearly as good as they used to be.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/27/2025 3:43 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
What do people think of the idea of a Group of Five playoff? Yes, it would be second tier and perhaps it would be akin to the NIT but wouldn't meaningful December games be just as enticing as bowl games in places like Detroit and Boise?
I've long been a proponent of playing for an actual championship instead of these woebegone bowl games that in this era offer almost no value. The old adage that these games offer extra practice/game reps for your players is out the window now because of the transfer portal. The game itself is as exciting as watching my neighbor cut his grass. The juice isn't worth the squeeze money wise, especially considering all bowl revenue is split between the conference. Unless they started promising games against Power conference opponents (hint: they won't), then the bowl games are nothing but glorified exhibitions against peer schools IMO.

The problem is you have about 50-60 schools in a quagmire. They rely on the games with bigger schools to balance their budgets and the sliver of hope that a playoff game will put a large(r) sum of money in their conferences' accounts. A handful of schools could actually pull this off every year (Boise, Wazzu, Oregon St, Tulane, Memphis, etc.), but schools like Ohio, App St, WKU and the like aren't even in THAT stratosphere without major financial assistance from an anonymous donor.

I don't think a 2nd tier playoff is the answer, but eventually we're probably going to see some sort of blending of the lines between top tier FCS (NDSU, SDSU, etc.) and the bottom tier FBS (MAC, Sun Belt, CUSA, MW) so our own playoff "could" happen. Again, the big question remains if the Big Ten and SEC break off and do their own thing. Then what happens to all of those other schools?
My sense is that the G5's major hope hinges on positioning themselves -- and actually embodying -- as everything major, P5 isn't. There's a hypocrisy in the way people talk about college athletics -- they insist that what they love about it is the tradition, the amateurism, etc. But then when presented with option of actual amateurism, they always want to try and keep up with P5 and can't bear the idea of competing at a different level.

The G5 should be doing everything they can to attract fan interest to their product. A playoff, promotion/relegation, an emphasis on true amateurism and the game day experience, longer eligibility (to attract actual scholar athletes who are interested in graduate degrees). They should be trying new things all the time. Instead, we're begging the P5 for handouts.

Not gonna end well for us.
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TWT
10/28/2025 1:45 PM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
An inside look at what Texas State pitched to the PAC.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6743652/2025/10/23/pac-1... /

"The Bobcats’ revenue-sharing budget across all sports is expected to grow from $4 million in the 2026 fiscal year to $7.2 million in 2029. Football’s pool will almost double (from $2.5 million to $4.9 million). Men’s basketball will increase from $600,000 to $1.1 million."

"The document touted Texas State’s “unwavering” commitment to football, citing GJ Kinne’s position as the Sun Belt’s highest-paid coach and promising future investments that would “position the program for long-term success in the Pac-12.” That sport’s budget is projected to expand from $14.1 million to $20 million from 2024-27."
I'm not crazy about leaving the MAC but if it's something that a school must do to stay alive in the top division(s) of football and basketball, then so-be-it. I figure w/ NIL and the crazy tv deals along with the playoff system, the MACs days are probably numbered.
Rod McDavis more than hinted at this when he was on campus last month for the McDavis Hall festivities. The gap just continues to grow.
Twenty years ago Bob Glidden said he thought it would get to a point where big time college athletics was going to be only for the Florida State's of the world and all others would be in a Division III type model. Non-scholarship football.
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TWT
10/28/2025 1:56 PM
MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
College football is crap nowadays and not just because of NIL.

OSU, loser of two games in 2025, not even the best in their conference or best on their side of the bracket gets a bye in not playing the conference championship, makes the playoffs, wins the national championship over a team that got smoked earlier by lowly MAC team, Northern Illinois. WE ARE NUMBER ONE yell the Columbus faithful.

If the projections of the top dogs forming their own, I'd just stay put and wait for the fallout when teams like WVU, VT, Pitt don't get their green card and we join up to play with them in some division.
There is talk about aligning that division in football around geographic lines. Northern Illinois ultimately could be assigned a schedule that included MAC schools after trying to play out west. Other sports remain in their existing conferences.
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OhioCatFan
10/28/2025 2:06 PM
TWT wrote:expand_more
An inside look at what Texas State pitched to the PAC.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6743652/2025/10/23/pac-1... /

"The Bobcats’ revenue-sharing budget across all sports is expected to grow from $4 million in the 2026 fiscal year to $7.2 million in 2029. Football’s pool will almost double (from $2.5 million to $4.9 million). Men’s basketball will increase from $600,000 to $1.1 million."

"The document touted Texas State’s “unwavering” commitment to football, citing GJ Kinne’s position as the Sun Belt’s highest-paid coach and promising future investments that would “position the program for long-term success in the Pac-12.” That sport’s budget is projected to expand from $14.1 million to $20 million from 2024-27."
I'm not crazy about leaving the MAC but if it's something that a school must do to stay alive in the top division(s) of football and basketball, then so-be-it. I figure w/ NIL and the crazy tv deals along with the playoff system, the MACs days are probably numbered.
Rod McDavis more than hinted at this when he was on campus last month for the McDavis Hall festivities. The gap just continues to grow.
Twenty years ago Bob Glidden said he thought it would get to a point where big time college athletics was going to be only for the Florida State's of the world and all others would be in a Division III type model. Non-scholarship football.
Can you tell me when Bob said this? Just curious. I knew him pretty well, and I don't recall this remark. I'll bet if he said it, it was in the context of spelling out several possible scenarios rather than an outright prediction.
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CatFud
10/28/2025 5:57 PM
Quote:expand_more
My sense is that the G5's major hope hinges on positioning themselves -- and actually embodying -- as everything major, P5 isn't. There's a hypocrisy in the way people talk about college athletics -- they insist that what they love about it is the tradition, the amateurism, etc. But then when presented with option of actual amateurism, they always want to try and keep up with P5 and can't bear the idea of competing at a different level.

The G5 should be doing everything they can to attract fan interest to their product. A playoff, promotion/relegation, an emphasis on true amateurism and the game day experience, longer eligibility (to attract actual scholar athletes who are interested in graduate degrees). They should be trying new things all the time. Instead, we're begging the P5 for handouts.
What if the money chase is wrong? Entire conferences, traditional bowl alignments and rivalries have been destroyed to emphasize a few major media markets (UCLA vs. Rutgers?!), and to generate a handful of championship/playoff games that seldom live up to the hype. The cost of business has been driven to such a ridiculous level that only a few select programs can truly compete. The greed of elite programs will kill the whole deal. I mean, $60 million buyouts for celebrity super-coachs who experience a single 3-game losing streak per decade, how is that sustainable? Should public, non-profit colleges and universities really be engaged in such blatantly commercial behavior?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/46756301...
Last Edited: 10/28/2025 6:10:23 PM by CatFud
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/28/2025 7:33 PM
CatFud wrote:expand_more
My sense is that the G5's major hope hinges on positioning themselves -- and actually embodying -- as everything major, P5 isn't. There's a hypocrisy in the way people talk about college athletics -- they insist that what they love about it is the tradition, the amateurism, etc. But then when presented with option of actual amateurism, they always want to try and keep up with P5 and can't bear the idea of competing at a different level.

The G5 should be doing everything they can to attract fan interest to their product. A playoff, promotion/relegation, an emphasis on true amateurism and the game day experience, longer eligibility (to attract actual scholar athletes who are interested in graduate degrees). They should be trying new things all the time. Instead, we're begging the P5 for handouts.
What if the money chase is wrong? Entire conferences, traditional bowl alignments and rivalries have been destroyed to emphasize a few major media markets (UCLA vs. Rutgers?!), and to generate a handful of championship/playoff games that seldom live up to the hype. The cost of business has been driven to such a ridiculous level that only a few select programs can truly compete. The greed of elite programs will kill the whole deal. I mean, $60 million buyouts for celebrity super-coachs who experience a single 3-game losing streak per decade, how is that sustainable? Should public, non-profit colleges and universities really be engaged in such blatantly commercial behavior?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/46756301...
It's possible. But, you know, it's football. And I wouldn't bet against Americans liking football. Colin Kaepernick and concussions were gonna kill the NFL not so long ago. And college football ratings are actually way up this year.

I forget what thread I suggested this in, but my guess is that we'll see the old conferences, rivalries, and geographic alignment reestablished in the next decade or so. The P5 will stop wanting to share revenue with the rest of FBS, and break off to form their own thing. And in doing so, start negotiating a single TV deal, with major conferences standing in as a kind of divisional structure. That's my guess, at least.
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OhioCatFan
10/28/2025 11:07 PM
CatFud wrote:expand_more
. . . Should public, non-profit colleges and universities really be engaged in such blatantly commercial behavior?
I agree, and have said things close to this in several posts over the last few years. I think we are getting close to a tiping point as the astromonical numbers involed in these "blatantly commercial" behaviors and the proponents of them are practically producing an reducio ad absurdum argument against their own position.
Last Edited: 10/29/2025 10:27:37 AM by OhioCatFan
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BBHacker
10/29/2025 7:22 AM
It’s all about education … that’s why the League of 14 didn’t want Cal-Berkeley or Stanford!
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BBHacker
10/29/2025 7:24 AM
Deleted duplicate
Last Edited: 10/29/2025 7:25:35 AM by BBHacker
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TWT
10/29/2025 11:07 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
My sense is that the G5's major hope hinges on positioning themselves -- and actually embodying -- as everything major, P5 isn't. There's a hypocrisy in the way people talk about college athletics -- they insist that what they love about it is the tradition, the amateurism, etc. But then when presented with option of actual amateurism, they always want to try and keep up with P5 and can't bear the idea of competing at a different level.

The G5 should be doing everything they can to attract fan interest to their product. A playoff, promotion/relegation, an emphasis on true amateurism and the game day experience, longer eligibility (to attract actual scholar athletes who are interested in graduate degrees). They should be trying new things all the time. Instead, we're begging the P5 for handouts.
What if the money chase is wrong? Entire conferences, traditional bowl alignments and rivalries have been destroyed to emphasize a few major media markets (UCLA vs. Rutgers?!), and to generate a handful of championship/playoff games that seldom live up to the hype. The cost of business has been driven to such a ridiculous level that only a few select programs can truly compete. The greed of elite programs will kill the whole deal. I mean, $60 million buyouts for celebrity super-coachs who experience a single 3-game losing streak per decade, how is that sustainable? Should public, non-profit colleges and universities really be engaged in such blatantly commercial behavior?

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/46756301...
It's possible. But, you know, it's football. And I wouldn't bet against Americans liking football. Colin Kaepernick and concussions were gonna kill the NFL not so long ago. And college football ratings are actually way up this year.

I forget what thread I suggested this in, but my guess is that we'll see the old conferences, rivalries, and geographic alignment reestablished in the next decade or so. The P5 will stop wanting to share revenue with the rest of FBS, and break off to form their own thing. And in doing so, start negotiating a single TV deal, with major conferences standing in as a kind of divisional structure. That's my guess, at least.
I'll believe a split when I see it. Glidden was talking about it 20 years ago back when there wasn't nearly the amount of money involved and it hasn't happened. A secondary line is also now drawn between the Big Ten/SEC and Big 12/ACC where they are now considered second tier product. A football and basketball tournament of only the Big Ten/SEC will not capture all the nations eyeballs. They appear more interested in keeping the hierarchy in place with rigged polls than move to official minor league product where the general public skips over it for the NFL.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/29/2025 12:35 PM
TWT wrote:expand_more
I'll believe a split when I see it. Glidden was talking about it 20 years ago back when there wasn't nearly the amount of money involved and it hasn't happened. [/QUOTE]The fact that there's so much more money involved is more incentive for it to happen.

A secondary line is also now drawn between the Big Ten/SEC and Big 12/ACC where they are now considered second tier product. A football and basketball tournament of only the Big Ten/SEC will not capture all the nations eyeballs.
I think it's a mistake to assume that what they do for football will be reflected in other sports. Football and Basketball are already structured in much different ways and schools it's not uncommon for schools to be in different conferences for each.

[QUOTE=TWT]
They appear more interested in keeping the hierarchy in place with rigged polls than move to official minor league product where the general public skips over it for the NFL.
Are you predicting that people are gonna stop watching college football?
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TWT
10/29/2025 1:39 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I'll believe a split when I see it. Glidden was talking about it 20 years ago back when there wasn't nearly the amount of money involved and it hasn't happened.
The fact that there's so much more money involved is more incentive for it to happen.

A secondary line is also now drawn between the Big Ten/SEC and Big 12/ACC where they are now considered second tier product. A football and basketball tournament of only the Big Ten/SEC will not capture all the nations eyeballs.
I think it's a mistake to assume that what they do for football will be reflected in other sports. Football and Basketball are already structured in much different ways and schools it's not uncommon for schools to be in different conferences for each.

They appear more interested in keeping the hierarchy in place with rigged polls than move to official minor league product where the general public skips over it for the NFL.
Are you predicting that people are gonna stop watching college football?
When I say I believe it when I see it is because there is much speculation of FBS and/or D1 split since at least the mid 90s and it hasn't happened. For that reason while it may happen I'm not placing a bet on a specific year when its going to occur. In my lifetime maybe, maybe not. The money and contracts have become larger and so are the potential for lawsuits and the athletic departments are struggling enough to carry their outlays.

I wouldn't assume the design around a split if it were to occur will be only football (that happened in the 80's already) or if it will be for all sports. If there was a split what happens to the NCAA NIL settlement? The top programs in college sports reaped the benefits but the socialized the costs to be absorbed by the full D1 membership.

The fear wouldn't be that people would stop watching entirely but a decline in interest if the public perceives it as the G League instead of the big tent D1 and FBS in place today. If anything they are talking about expanding the NCAA tournament and expanding the CFP while trying to squeeze the mid majors on their financial cut.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/29/2025 8:41 PM
TWT wrote:expand_more
If there was a split what happens to the NCAA NIL settlement? [/QUOTE]The NCAA NIL settlement looks backward, not forward. It's for "missed" payments. Payouts would still be made as settled.


The top programs in college sports reaped the benefits but the socialized the costs to be absorbed by the full D1 membership.
I don't think this statement is true. I know it was popular to react to the gross volume of the G5 settlement portion, but on a per school basis it was much lower than what P5 schools paid. And the amount was dwarfed by what we've received in revenue share over the years. We reaped plenty of benefits over the years. We are, in fact, basically just on the P5's welfare and have been for a long time.

The fear wouldn't be that people would stop watching entirely but a decline in interest if the public perceives it as the G League instead of the big tent D1 and FBS in place today.
I think the "ifs" here are really, really big ifs: (1) that the public begins to perceive big time college football as the G League and (2) that the fact that D1 is a "big tent" matters to anybody.

On (1) college football has a hundred + years of tradition, massive brands with massive fan support, and tons of social and cultural significance. The G League doesn't. And the top young NBA talent never even plays in the G League. It just doesn't seem like a useful comparison to me, or a likely outcome.

On (2) I've just never heard of anybody being attracted to college football because there are a lot of D1 teams. The vast majority of people who watch college football watch P5 teams play college football and that shows in tv ratings data and attendance numbers. I don't think the existence of the MAC and the fact that the MAC is technically at the same level factors in for most people.


[QUOTE=TWT]
If anything they are talking about expanding the NCAA tournament and expanding the CFP while trying to squeeze the mid majors on their financial cut.
I am having trouble seeing how you're interpreting this as supporting your stance here. The P5s want more of the money and more of the playoff spots. We agree on that. Every time they expand without allocating additional spots to the G5 and reduce the G5's cut, it's a step towards a full break.
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TWT
10/29/2025 11:19 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
If there was a split what happens to the NCAA NIL settlement?
The NCAA NIL settlement looks backward, not forward. It's for "missed" payments. Payouts would still be made as settled.


The top programs in college sports reaped the benefits but the socialized the costs to be absorbed by the full D1 membership.
I don't think this statement is true. I know it was popular to react to the gross volume of the G5 settlement portion, but on a per school basis it was much lower than what P5 schools paid. And the amount was dwarfed by what we've received in revenue share over the years. We reaped plenty of benefits over the years. We are, in fact, basically just on the P5's welfare and have been for a long time.

The fear wouldn't be that people would stop watching entirely but a decline in interest if the public perceives it as the G League instead of the big tent D1 and FBS in place today.
I think the "ifs" here are really, really big ifs: (1) that the public begins to perceive big time college football as the G League and (2) that the fact that D1 is a "big tent" matters to anybody.

On (1) college football has a hundred + years of tradition, massive brands with massive fan support, and tons of social and cultural significance. The G League doesn't. And the top young NBA talent never even plays in the G League. It just doesn't seem like a useful comparison to me, or a likely outcome.

On (2) I've just never heard of anybody being attracted to college football because there are a lot of D1 teams. The vast majority of people who watch college football watch P5 teams play college football and that shows in tv ratings data and attendance numbers. I don't think the existence of the MAC and the fact that the MAC is technically at the same level factors in for most people.


If anything they are talking about expanding the NCAA tournament and expanding the CFP while trying to squeeze the mid majors on their financial cut.
I am having trouble seeing how you're interpreting this as supporting your stance here. The P5s want more of the money and more of the playoff spots. We agree on that. Every time they expand without allocating additional spots to the G5 and reduce the G5's cut, it's a step towards a full break.
Think about how a big tent works in politics. They provide room for alternative perspectives in a party but at the end of day all the perspectives come together to vote the same ticket. By having D1 with a membership of 370 and including almost all of the large public schools with hundreds of thousands of alumni by including them in the same post season they buy-in to the system. Exclude them and they don't care about D1 sports or follow their school in another division.

While this wouldn't remove 90% of the value of the NCAA tournament if it was cut down to only the Big Ten and SEC it would reduce the value of their tournamanet by SOME no doubt. The remaining D1 schools would have their own tournament and enough name value to be on TV and crown their own champion. The P2 want alumni of other schools to buy into their system, alumni that wouldn't otherwise be connected to if they weren't part of the system.

My reference to the G League is that If the P2 cuts off from D1/FBS into a super grouping of 30 how many are going to feel like its nothing more than a feeder system for the NBA/NFL and just say to themselves why not just watch the real thing? It becomes the difference between MLB and Minor League baseball if fully perceived as a developmental league.

What has happened steadily since the last BCS contract the G5 have moved from having an autobid if ranked in the Top 12 to a major bowl to having a guaranteed slot for highest rated champ in a major bowl to having a guaranteed slot in a playoff for the best champ. There is talk now of expanding the playoff to 24 with 2 slots for the G5 with that many teams involved plus that would create a much lower bar for an at-large entrant from the G5 to make.

The question I would say to you is if a split from the G5 is imminent then why hasn't it already happened and how do you explain the gradual improvement in post season access by the G5 over time in that context?
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GoCats105
10/30/2025 12:54 PM
TWT wrote:expand_more
The question I would say to you is if a split from the G5 is imminent then why hasn't it already happened and how do you explain the gradual improvement in post season access by the G5 over time in that context?
I actually don't think this is necessarily true. The access the G5s have been given has more or less been a handout to a major bowl game, but hampered their ability to compete for an actual national championship and every time a G5 gets close to that, they (committees, power conferences) change the rules or formatting.

During the BCS era, teams like Boise and TCU were regular "BCS Busters" and got as highly ranked in the BCS standings as #2 and #3 at one point. Boise was #3 in November 2010. NIU was given a BCS bowl berth on a technicality in 2012 and the system was changed to a 4-team playoff just two years later.

I don't care what anyone says, the 4-team playoff and subsequent New Year's Six bowls were designed to keep the G5 out of the national championship. Throw them a bone and give them an autobid to a Fiesta or Cotton Bowl, but it would almost take an act of God for one to be ranked in the Top Four. Oh and look what happened? American Conference Cincinnati gets good enough, has the right schedule and gets into the 4-team playoff.

What do they do? Immediately change it to a 12-team playoff and most people thought any G5 would be ranked #12 and get immediately washed in the first round, or at most round two.

Boise gets a 4-seed, whether or not they actually deserved it, they played by the rules and got a bye and what happens? The rules are changed and you'll probably never see a G5 get an auto bye again. Again, without a minor miracle, a G5 will never play for a national championship in this era. The system just won't allow it to happen.
Last Edited: 10/30/2025 12:59:53 PM by GoCats105
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/30/2025 2:15 PM
TWT wrote:expand_more
Think about how a big tent works in politics. [/QUOTE]I'd say "the big tent" is working about as well in college sports as it is in politics.

By having D1 with a membership of 370 and including almost all of the large public schools with hundreds of thousands of alumni by including them in the same post season they buy-in to the system. Exclude them and they don't care about D1 sports or follow their school in another division.
As mentioned, I don't expect the system for basketball to change all that much. The powers that be understand the product of the NCAA tournament and it's appeal.

So the 370 number just isn't all that relevant to me. And in football, "they don't care about D1 sports or follow their school" applies to a huge percentage of alumni of D1 schools.

My reference to the G League is that If the P2 cuts off from D1/FBS into a super grouping of 30 how many are going to feel like its nothing more than a feeder system for the NBA/NFL and just say to themselves why not just watch the real thing? It becomes the difference between MLB and Minor League baseball if fully perceived as a developmental league.
I got the connection, I just think it's naive and ignores 100+ years of brand building and devoted fanbases.

[QUOTE=TWT]
What has happened steadily since the last BCS contract the G5 have moved from having an autobid if ranked in the Top 12 to a major bowl to having a guaranteed slot for highest rated champ in a major bowl to having a guaranteed slot in a playoff for the best champ. There is talk now of expanding the playoff to 24 with 2 slots for the G5 with that many teams involved plus that would create a much lower bar for an at-large entrant from the G5 to make.

The question I would say to you is if a split from the G5 is imminent then why hasn't it already happened and how do you explain the gradual improvement in post season access by the G5 over time in that context?
I do not think what you're describing is better for the G5.
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TWT
10/30/2025 6:05 PM
GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
The question I would say to you is if a split from the G5 is imminent then why hasn't it already happened and how do you explain the gradual improvement in post season access by the G5 over time in that context?
I actually don't think this is necessarily true. The access the G5s have been given has more or less been a handout to a major bowl game, but hampered their ability to compete for an actual national championship and every time a G5 gets close to that, they (committees, power conferences) change the rules or formatting.

During the BCS era, teams like Boise and TCU were regular "BCS Busters" and got as highly ranked in the BCS standings as #2 and #3 at one point. Boise was #3 in November 2010. NIU was given a BCS bowl berth on a technicality in 2012 and the system was changed to a 4-team playoff just two years later.

I don't care what anyone says, the 4-team playoff and subsequent New Year's Six bowls were designed to keep the G5 out of the national championship. Throw them a bone and give them an autobid to a Fiesta or Cotton Bowl, but it would almost take an act of God for one to be ranked in the Top Four. Oh and look what happened? American Conference Cincinnati gets good enough, has the right schedule and gets into the 4-team playoff.

What do they do? Immediately change it to a 12-team playoff and most people thought any G5 would be ranked #12 and get immediately washed in the first round, or at most round two.

Boise gets a 4-seed, whether or not they actually deserved it, they played by the rules and got a bye and what happens? The rules are changed and you'll probably never see a G5 get an auto bye again. Again, without a minor miracle, a G5 will never play for a national championship in this era. The system just won't allow it to happen.
No doubt not giving the Top 4 conference champs was a roll back but it was the first rollback for the G5. For the MAC in particular the post season represents steady advancement.

1998-2005
Top 6 to appear in a BCS game, MAC with 1-2 bowl games.
MAC with no payment from BCS.

2006-2013
Highest non-AQ champ Top 12 (Top 16 if above a champ), MAC with 3-4 bowl games.
MAC with 20% BCS payment of MWC/CUSA.

2014-2024
Highest G5 champ in a major bowl, MAC with 5-7 bowl games annually
MAC with 75% payment of MWC/AAC on average

2025-2026
Highest G5 champ w/ playoff spot.
MAC with equal payment received by the AAC.

There is talk of expanding to 24 with 4 autobids for the P4 and 2 autobids for the G5. That would lower the thereshold of making the playoff in addition to lowering the threshold of hosting a playoff game in Athens. This could be another 75% increase in money for the MAC.

More realignment would help the MAC. Memphis, UNLV, USF, SDSU into a P4 would serve to provide less competition for the 2 playoff spots leaving them for lower resourced programs.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/31/2025 10:56 AM
TWT wrote:expand_more
More realignment would help the MAC. Memphis, UNLV, USF, SDSU into a P4 would serve to provide less competition for the 2 playoff spots leaving them for lower resourced programs.
If it's good for programs to be at the lower tier and there's been so much progress, why is every program in the world (outside of the MAC) doing literally everything they can to pitch themselves to bigger conferences?

You think Memphis and Texas State et al are doing that because the landscape is improving for the G5?

They're trying to find room on the lifeboat. You seem to be pulling up a chair and enjoying the band because the Titanic is unsinkable.
Last Edited: 10/31/2025 10:56:26 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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