menu
Logo
99+
Bobcat Attack Menu
Logo
99+
Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Julie Cromer spoke about NIL at national conference last week
Page: 1 of 1
mail
person
SBH
7/5/2022 8:54 AM
I heard that Julie Cromer was a featured speaker, along with the AD of the U of Texas, at a national event for athletic department professionals last week in Las Vegas. The topic: NIL.

This is second-hand info, but Julie apparently spoke about the dangers of NIL to schools like Ohio. The Texas AD essentially replied, "Yep, tough luck for you" and went on to brag about having already raised $8M in NIL funds.

Julie then argued that this could seriously harm the NCAA basketball tournament, eliminating the first- and second-round upsets that make the tournament so compelling. The Texas AD replied, "Yep, but you should be complaining to that big school up the street from you - they're among the most aggressive in NIL."
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 9:03 AM
I can't believe she has time to represent the interests of mid majors at a national conference but doesn't have the time to reply to my emails about stale popcorn at volleyball games.
mail
TWT
7/5/2022 9:05 AM
The danger is when Texas can't raise enough NIL to compete in the SEC. I'm not sure how it makes a difference at the mid major level when they aren't getting the players anyway.
mail
person
CatsUp
7/5/2022 9:20 AM
I think the real problem facing mid-majors is when the major athletic programs “pay everyone” which I think at least some are doing. This despite almost no one knowing their N, I, or L.
mail
OhioCatFan
7/5/2022 9:24 AM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I can't believe she has time to represent the interests of mid majors at a national conference but doesn't have the time to reply to my emails about stale popcorn at volleyball games.
I thought it was stale pretzel you complained about.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 9:26 AM
Realistically, not all that much is changing.

The same money's being spent, some of it's just ending up with players instead of going into making sure weight rooms have gold plated toilets or whatever.

This doesn't demonstrably change the landscape for mid majors. It just makes the fact that we're not actually competing at the same level as P5 schools more stark. It's always been the case, more people are seeing it now. The landscape isn't going to be altered to be more inclusive for the Ohios of the world. There's really no reason to keep up the charade of being an FBS level football program anymore.
mail
OhioCatFan
7/5/2022 9:27 AM
CatsUp wrote:expand_more
I think the real problem facing mid-majors is when the major athletic programs “pay everyone” which I think at least some are doing. This despite almost no one knowing their N, I, or L.
Seems like corruption to me. The NIL system is already bending to the breaking point. In essence schools are just paying players directly through indirect means. I think the DOJ and IRS are waiting in the wings. Grab some stale popcorn with BLSS and watch the show. It’s going to get interesting.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 10:25 AM
OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
Seems like corruption to me. The NIL system is already bending to the breaking point. In essence schools are just paying players directly through indirect means. I think the DOJ and IRS are waiting in the wings. Grab some stale popcorn with BLSS and watch the show. It’s going to get interesting.
It's so strange to me how incapable people seem of moving on from the idea that players receiving money is somehow corrupt.

It used to be corrupt. But it's legal now. I swear decades of NCAA propaganda just straight up broke people's ability to reason.

What rationale does the DOJ or IRS have to go after this activity and what's corrupt about it? These are out-in-the-open business transactions with contracts and everything.

It only feels like corruption because you're applying an outdated lens.
Last Edited: 7/5/2022 10:58:05 AM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
mail
spongeBOB CATpants
7/5/2022 11:11 AM
I don't want to speak for anybody but I'm reading the thread as schools are corrupt in how they are distributing the money to players. Its not the players receiving money that is corrupt.

The way the NIL systems seems to be working is that the schools are setting up these "NIL deals" but the money isn't really compensation for NIL, at all. The payments are being used as recruiting tools not actually for name, image, or likeness.

I could be wrong but I thought it was specifically stated that schools could not do this and the rules are just straight up ignored.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 11:24 AM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
I don't want to speak for anybody but I'm reading the thread as schools are corrupt in how they are distributing the money to players. Its not the players receiving money that is corrupt.

The way the NIL systems seems to be working is that the schools are setting up these "NIL deals" but the money isn't really compensation for NIL, at all. The payments are being used as recruiting tools not actually for name, image, or likeness.

I could be wrong but I thought it was specifically stated that schools could not do this and the rules are just straight up ignored.
What does it mean to say it's "not really compensation for NIL"? Name, Image, Likeness is just a way of saying that players can earn endorsement money, do promotional appearances, social media posts, etc. If a business decides that the mere fact that a player's on the Texas Football team -- and the association between their business and the football team -- is worth money to them, how do you propose that be policed?

Can you provide an example of compensation that you feel isn't actually for NIL? And explain the difference and why you think one's fine and the other warrants a DOJ investigation?
mail
TWT
7/5/2022 12:50 PM
I guess I want to know how all of these changes enhance the university standing? Couldn't OU do better with a renovated Ping center that included a pool as far as attracting students over promoting NIL activity to be marginally more competitive in the revenue sports? Best not to upsell NIL to the university community or alums else a big percentage of donations might go to it.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 1:03 PM
Club Hyatt wrote:expand_more
I guess I want to know how all of these changes enhance the university standing? Couldn't OU do better with a renovated Ping center that included a pool as far as attracting students over promoting NIL activity to be marginally more competitive in the revenue sports? Best not to upsell NIL to the university community or alums else a big percentage of donations might go to it.
I agree with this. We've never been able to actually compete at the highest level in football, and football's driving the realignment and largest NIL spending.

Time to just call a spade a spade and stop trying to compete at that level. I think it's time to focus on what the G5, and specifically the MAC, look like in a world where the P5 has broken off and how we put the best product on the field.
mail
person
SBH
7/5/2022 1:43 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I don't want to speak for anybody but I'm reading the thread as schools are corrupt in how they are distributing the money to players. Its not the players receiving money that is corrupt.

The way the NIL systems seems to be working is that the schools are setting up these "NIL deals" but the money isn't really compensation for NIL, at all. The payments are being used as recruiting tools not actually for name, image, or likeness.

I could be wrong but I thought it was specifically stated that schools could not do this and the rules are just straight up ignored.
What does it mean to say it's "not really compensation for NIL"? Name, Image, Likeness is just a way of saying that players can earn endorsement money, do promotional appearances, social media posts, etc. If a business decides that the mere fact that a player's on the Texas Football team -- and the association between their business and the football team -- is worth money to them, how do you propose that be policed?

Can you provide an example of compensation that you feel isn't actually for NIL? And explain the difference and why you think one's fine and the other warrants a DOJ investigation?
I believe he's saying that the big programs with millions in NIL funds will be able to offer money to players who really won't have genuine NIL marketability, such as a second-string lineman, etc. who might otherwise go to a smaller school. In that sense, this isn't much different than offering them a no-show job.
mail
person
Deciduous Forest Cat
7/5/2022 1:51 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I don't want to speak for anybody but I'm reading the thread as schools are corrupt in how they are distributing the money to players. Its not the players receiving money that is corrupt.

The way the NIL systems seems to be working is that the schools are setting up these "NIL deals" but the money isn't really compensation for NIL, at all. The payments are being used as recruiting tools not actually for name, image, or likeness.

I could be wrong but I thought it was specifically stated that schools could not do this and the rules are just straight up ignored.
What does it mean to say it's "not really compensation for NIL"? Name, Image, Likeness is just a way of saying that players can earn endorsement money, do promotional appearances, social media posts, etc. If a business decides that the mere fact that a player's on the Texas Football team -- and the association between their business and the football team -- is worth money to them, how do you propose that be policed?

Can you provide an example of compensation that you feel isn't actually for NIL? And explain the difference and why you think one's fine and the other warrants a DOJ investigation?
I believe he's saying that the big programs with millions in NIL funds will be able to offer money to players who really won't have genuine NIL marketability, such as a second-string lineman, etc. who might otherwise go to a smaller school. In that sense, this isn't much different than offering them a no-show job.
I don't understand how any of this is legal, even in today's wild wild west. Doesn't NIL money have to come from legitimate businesses? or do p5 schools pay kids for their own advertising purposes? A school that says they have a "pool of money" doesn't sound like they have any interest in paying a football player because of any perceived return on investment. Sounds like they are just paying the athlete a "salary" (read: bribe) for choosing their "school".
Last Edited: 7/5/2022 1:54:09 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
mail
person
Deciduous Forest Cat
7/5/2022 1:52 PM
deleted duplicate
Last Edited: 7/5/2022 1:53:23 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 1:56 PM
SBH wrote:expand_more
I believe he's saying that the big programs with millions in NIL funds will be able to offer money to players who really won't have genuine NIL marketability, such as a second-string lineman, etc. who might otherwise go to a smaller school. In that sense, this isn't much different than offering them a no-show job.
Yeah, I get the point they're making. I'm just not seeing the leap between that and "let's get the DOJ involved."

A business is entering into a legal agreement with somebody to promote their business. How exactly do you propose having a middle man arbitrate that and decide who is "worth" the money? And why? The whole point of the NIL is that it's been determined to be illegal for the NCAA to restrict this.

Also worth noting: if a second string lineman decides 50k in NIL money is worth more to them than more playing time at a smaller school, is there anything inherently wrong with that? Is that an outcome that's so terrible that we should be legislating away the choice?
Last Edited: 7/5/2022 2:19:01 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
mail
spongeBOB CATpants
7/5/2022 3:16 PM
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame wrote:expand_more
I believe he's saying that the big programs with millions in NIL funds will be able to offer money to players who really won't have genuine NIL marketability, such as a second-string lineman, etc. who might otherwise go to a smaller school. In that sense, this isn't much different than offering them a no-show job.
Yeah, I get the point they're making. I'm just not seeing the leap between that and "let's get the DOJ involved."

A business is entering into a legal agreement with somebody to promote their business. How exactly do you propose having a middle man arbitrate that and decide who is "worth" the money? And why? The whole point of the NIL is that it's been determined to be illegal for the NCAA to restrict this.

Also worth noting: if a second string lineman decides 50k in NIL money is worth more to them than more playing time at a smaller school, is there anything inherently wrong with that? Is that an outcome that's so terrible that we should be legislating away the choice?
Others summed it up and that was pretty much the point I was making.

Please note I was not the one calling for DOJ or IRS involvement nor was I agreeing with those opinions. I was just interpreting the context of those posts in my own words.
mail
person
BillyTheCat
7/5/2022 3:49 PM
The IRS will be interested due to these are all taxable income, even use of cars. DOJ, has no interest here.

As for middle men, that is a whole new market and many are jumping all over it. They are essentially college agents.
mail
spongeBOB CATpants
7/5/2022 4:20 PM
Good discussion going on and it brought up a question that I can't seem to figure out.

Does an individual athlete boost their own "name, image, likeness" by choosing a specific school?

Or is it that said school has more to offer said athlete than other schools, thus creating an inflated "NIL" value?

Example:

A 3 star football recruit from Kentucky has two offers on the table. One from Ohio University and one from Ohio State University.

They get offered 1 NIL deal through Ohio University for $1,000. They get offered 10 NIL deals at Ohio State that totals $20,000.

*keep in mind that this athlete hasn't stepped foot in the state of Ohio, much less on the football field because they are 17 years old and a senior in high school*

In this scenario, I don't see how this money has anything to do with "NIL value" but I could see how one could argue there is "NIL Potential" kinda like buying low on a stock.

Thoughts?
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 5:31 PM
spongeBOB CATpants wrote:expand_more
Good discussion going on and it brought up a question that I can't seem to figure out.

Does an individual athlete boost their own "name, image, likeness" by choosing a specific school?

Or is it that said school has more to offer said athlete than other schools, thus creating an inflated "NIL" value?

Example:

A 3 star football recruit from Kentucky has two offers on the table. One from Ohio University and one from Ohio State University.

They get offered 1 NIL deal through Ohio University for $1,000. They get offered 10 NIL deals at Ohio State that totals $20,000.

*keep in mind that this athlete hasn't stepped foot in the state of Ohio, much less on the football field because they are 17 years old and a senior in high school*

In this scenario, I don't see how this money has anything to do with "NIL value" but I could see how one could argue there is "NIL Potential" kinda like buying low on a stock.

Thoughts?
I understand where you're coming from, but this doesn't strike me as any different than how a typical labor market works. Small companies often pay less for the same work than large companies do, and companies are often times just making an educated guess about the value of the labor provided. Some employees far exceed, others underperform.

What a big school provides that smaller ones don't is access to a larger market. There's higher upside for any companies involved.
Last Edited: 7/5/2022 6:10:31 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
mail
person
Pataskala
7/5/2022 6:27 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
The IRS will be interested due to these are all taxable income, even use of cars. DOJ, has no interest here.

As for middle men, that is a whole new market and many are jumping all over it. They are essentially college agents.
The use of cars, etc. is the corrupting (bastardizing?) part of all this to me. This whole thing became publicized a few years ago when basketball players at one of the "P" schools complained that they couldn't afford to get enough to eat and still pay for necessities not covered by their schollie. (Whether that was true is another story.) But now, instead of money so at least they can have food money, they're driving around in luxury cars. C.J. Stroud is tooling around Columbus in a $125,000 Bentley, for sh*t's sake. That's really not what getting NIL for players was all about. Extremes like that are reasons for reining in NIL and making it just cash payments.
mail
person
Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
7/5/2022 6:59 PM
Pataskala wrote:expand_more
The IRS will be interested due to these are all taxable income, even use of cars. DOJ, has no interest here.

As for middle men, that is a whole new market and many are jumping all over it. They are essentially college agents.
The use of cars, etc. is the corrupting (bastardizing?) part of all this to me. This whole thing became publicized a few years ago when basketball players at one of the "P" schools complained that they couldn't afford to get enough to eat and still pay for necessities not covered by their schollie. (Whether that was true is another story.) But now, instead of money so at least they can have food money, they're driving around in luxury cars. C.J. Stroud is tooling around Columbus in a $125,000 Bentley, for sh*t's sake. That's really not what getting NIL for players was all about. Extremes like that are reasons for reining in NIL and making it just cash payments.
When I was in Athens Brandon Hunter and some other dudes on the team used to roll around in an Escalade. Literally just drive laps around Court and Congress. Always wondered who paid for that car, because a bunch of different players drove it. (I assume we don't have boosters who could afford multiple cars).

I'm also not sure what you mean when you say "that's not really what getting NIL for players was all about." Who decided what it was all about?

To me it's about talented people not having arbitrary restrictions on what they can earn based on their talents. For some people, that talent earns them food money. For others, it earns them a Bentley. 538 did an analysis to try and calculate what top NCAA quarterbacks are worth to their universities. It's based on 2014 data, so almost certainly the number's increased with new TV deals. Here's the link: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-much-college-qua... /

For CJ Stroud, the number's higher than the cost of a Bentley.
mail
person
71 BOBCAT
7/5/2022 8:41 PM
Let's face it "The rich get richer"






GO BOBCATS
Showing Messages: 1 - 23 of 23
reply
vertical_align_top
vertical_align_center
vertical_align_bottom
add_comment
MAC News Links



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)