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Topic: the LOVE is melting down....
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Ohio Hoops
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Posted: 7/28/2010 8:59 AM
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I was never saying you couldn't get stories to come out about the game. My point was that as beautiful as Athens is, it's located in the middle of no where with no TV package. What team in their right mind is going to come to Athens to play in a 3/4 filled stadium that's going to be empty by the 3rd quarter, and won't even be on TV? Maybe Syracuse but that's it.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 12:44 PM
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The plan is to win. This program needs wins to build support. The entire athletic program needs wins. As you know success breeds more success. To build support from the masses and casual fans you need to win. To most fans the quality of the opponent is unimportant as long as you win.
On year Tressel won a National Championship at YSU  they had a 10-10 tie at Akron! And Akron wasn't very good. But everone hailed the Champions.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 12:45 PM
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Ohio Hoops wrote:expand_more
I was never saying you couldn't get stories to come out about the game. My point was that as beautiful as Athens is, it's located in the middle of no where with no TV package. What team in their right mind is going to come to Athens to play in a 3/4 filled stadium that's going to be empty by the 3rd quarter, and won't even be on TV? Maybe Syracuse but that's it.


What exactly are you talking about? Ohio doesn't have a local TV package anymore but neither does Ohio State. Toledo has been playing Arizona, Colorado, Kansas ect. on ESPN as part of the MAC's conference TV package. You are saying that we'd only get 17,000 (3/4 stadium crowd) which will be gone by halftime? For a BCS team? Seriously, all 3 of the stadium sellouts have been against BCS teams. We played Minnesota at noon and only had 20k but its hardly what I would have called a soft half time leaving crowd. That was also Knorr era wilderness action when Minn was on the slate.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 1:01 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Explain to me what grand change in Bobcat Athletics you're hoping to have happen because we schedule ONE quality OOC home again a year-

- Increased season ticket sales? doubtful
- Better record? doubtful
- Better chance of winning the MACC? nope
- Better chance at winning a bowl game? doubtful


Any program that puts bigger names on the schedule is going to see an increase in ticket sales. Consider the objectives of the program, to market the school and enhance the local economy of Athens-Ohio University. The best teams we can get in Peden Stadium are the ones that bring fans. Marshall is a good series for the school in this regard the local backyard brawl. Miami FL or an Arizona might be nice in name but they aren't going to travel to Athens. How about a yearly series with Navy? Ohio is only a 6-7 hour bus ride from Annapolis, it gets the Cats out into the mid-atlantic cooridor where Ohio recruits students/players. Navy fans will travel, they take 20,000 plus to bowl games. Ohio would bring a nice contingent to Annapolis with thousands of alumni nearby in DC-Balt. That would give Ohio games in NY, PA, MD, WV every year to add some eastern definition to the schedule.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 1:22 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
To Love...in THEORY I TOTALLY agree with you.

To Love and Others...in REALITY we are not going to see this happen with our limited stadium size and resources.

The only logical alternative is to draw a circle 300/350 miles from Athens or Columbus or wherever and schedule teams inside that circle so the BOBCAT NATION can travel and see their team compete.  Places like UK, Louisville, Cincy. the OSU, Mich, Mich St, Indiana, Pitt, Marshall, etc. meet that criteria. 


The best schedule we could put together starts with playing a regional big at their place every year on a rotational basis (OSU, Penn St, Rutgers, VT, Tenn, KY). We pretty much do this though I would remove the Minnesota game for a more regional big. Then I would have the Marshall series for local presence and a series with Navy which is automatic TV, good crowd, plus winnable. Then I'd have a regional FCS school in Athens that would hopefully bring a few fans and result in an easy win. I guess I just don't see what scheduling programs like New Mexico St and Idaho is doing for our program. I would not be shocked to learn that they are paying us extra to play them.
Last Edited: 7/28/2010 1:23:55 PM by Athens
Maryland Bobcat
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Posted: 7/28/2010 1:30 PM
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Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to attract big-time opponents or tv slots, or even a lot of fans for that matter until we have a legitimate football stadium to play in. Peden is a glorified high school stadium. It's the Anderson Arena of MAC football. I know, I know...we can barely fill it now so what's the point in adding on? If we had something that resembled a D1 football stadium (I'm not talking huge - something around 35K) I think it would create a sense that it's a legitimate D1 program and not give fans and other programs the sense that they are playing a FCS school. "If you build it they will come". I think it would give students a fans the feeling that they can watch big-time football on campus rather than staying in and watching it on ESPN. Other programs my not be embarrased to come play us (the way are to play FBS teams), and ESPN might think about airing a game sometime other than Tuesday at midnight. Fans flipping through the channels aren't going to stop on ESPN if it looks like a West Texas high school game.

Would it be hard to fill for the first few years? Obviously it would be, but you can't build a program and exposure without it. Unfortunately, you can't build a stadium without success, so it's a catch-22.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 1:43 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
Explain to me what grand change in Bobcat Athletics you're hoping to have happen because we schedule ONE quality OOC home again a year-

- Increased season ticket sales? doubtful
- Better record? doubtful
- Better chance of winning the MACC? nope
- Better chance at winning a bowl game? doubtful

I don't see how adding one quality OOC home game a year will have any signifcant impact financially or on student/townie support. Winning on TV (MACC and Bowl) is what people want to see. One good home game doesn't change the fact that Peden Stadium is located in the middle of nowhere.

The only substantive effect I can see of us scheduling a big name to come in and beat us on our own field is that it gives some people on this site something to brag about.


I take it you didn't watch the Pitt Game in 2005?
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Posted: 7/28/2010 1:50 PM
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Maryland Bobcat wrote:expand_more
Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to attract big-time opponents or tv slots, or even a lot of fans for that matter until we have a legitimate football stadium to play in. Peden is a glorified high school stadium. It's the Anderson Arena of MAC football. I know, I know...we can barely fill it now so what's the point in adding on? If we had something that resembled a D1 football stadium (I'm not talking huge - something around 35K) I think it would create a sense that it's a legitimate D1 program and not give fans and other programs the sense that they are playing a FCS school. "If you build it they will come". I think it would give students a fans the feeling that they can watch big-time football on campus rather than staying in and watching it on ESPN. Other programs my not be embarrased to come play us (the way are to play FBS teams), and ESPN might think about airing a game sometime other than Tuesday at midnight. Fans flipping through the channels aren't going to stop on ESPN if it looks like a West Texas high school game.

Would it be hard to fill for the first few years? Obviously it would be, but you can't build a program and exposure without it. Unfortunately, you can't build a stadium without success, so it's a catch-22.


I agree with where you are going here. The facility is often the face of the program. When somebody starts off a conversation about whether a school is legit D1 or not they refer back to the facility. The face of the Ohio Athletic Department is the Convo, not Peden Stadium. I've had people who didn't go to college while visiting in Northern Ohio tell me stories about the Convo. If we have the biggest basketball arena in the MAC why don't we have the biggest football stadium? Its hard to argue that Marshall football is small time when they play in a 40,000 seat house. A larger stadium is more fun to sit in, more of a magnet for students. Unfortunately though with today's construction costs it may be completely unfeasible. One alternative I've though of in response to the complaints I've heard over the years about the seating is to redesign the main grandstands by increasing the slope of the seats (to match the corners) and adding a few more rows. Peden Stadium has got to be #1 in the country for wasted space.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 2:11 PM
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It's the fervor--which we see some of here which--which will start the fire.  Like it or not, it's all about the winning.

Win and get ranked and people want to see you.  Look, Frank Solich is our coach.  He's a national figure.  We need a big start and a big season.  Game changers.

Enough to build out to 35k?  Very likely not; it's the budget/economy stupid.

Enough to get the schools that Love wants in Peden to come there.  Still a long shot, but it starts with winning.

Enough to satisfy OUr fans and to build momentum?  Definitely.

Win.  Play to our potential.  Win.
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Posted: 7/28/2010 4:23 PM
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Monroe Slavin, CPA wrote:expand_more
It's the fervor--which we see some of here which--which will start the fire.  Like it or not, it's all about the winning.

Win and get ranked and people want to see you.  Look, Frank Solich is our coach.  He's a national figure.  We need a big start and a big season.  Game changers.

Enough to build out to 35k?  Very likely not; it's the budget/economy stupid.

Enough to get the schools that Love wants in Peden to come there.  Still a long shot, but it starts with winning.

Enough to satisfy OUr fans and to build momentum?  Definitely.

Win.  Play to our potential.  Win.


I don't agree.  Again look at the Pitt game.

I firmly belive there's no reason why OU can't hang with anybody from the big east and on any given saturday, win thoes games.

We can go about building a winning tradition by beatting a wafford and company every year, or by knocking off a BCS school ever year like we were doing until a couple years ago.

We can compete in the MAC, this will get us a winning tradition, but if you want to amp up the excitement, we need to play somebody.
Last Edited: 7/28/2010 4:27:34 PM by OrlandoCat
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/28/2010 4:36 PM
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Ohio Hoops wrote:expand_more
I was never saying you couldn't get stories to come out about the game. My point was that as beautiful as Athens is, it's located in the middle of no where with no TV package. What team in their right mind is going to come to Athens to play in a 3/4 filled stadium that's going to be empty by the 3rd quarter, and won't even be on TV? Maybe Syracuse but that's it.


You apparently weren't at the Pitt or Iowa State games.  Huge crowds with hardly anyone leaving until the game was over.  In the case of Pitt that included an OT period.  Yes, last year with UConn it was disappointing that a number of fans left before the gtame was decided.  But, you are making a blanket statement that's not correct. 

Edits:  I'd love to see a 1-1 with USNA on a regular basis.  Yes, I'd make the trip to Annapolis, a place I spent about three years of my early childhood (not that anyone cares).   Also, if one is really trying to locate the middle of nowhere, I'll  give you a hint.  It's in the geographcial center of Pennsylvania!
Last Edited: 7/28/2010 4:47:36 PM by OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/28/2010 4:56 PM
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OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
Explain to me what grand change in Bobcat Athletics you're hoping to have happen because we schedule ONE quality OOC home again a year-

- Increased season ticket sales? doubtful
- Better record? doubtful
- Better chance of winning the MACC? nope
- Better chance at winning a bowl game? doubtful

I don't see how adding one quality OOC home game a year will have any signifcant impact financially or on student/townie support. Winning on TV (MACC and Bowl) is what people want to see. One good home game doesn't change the fact that Peden Stadium is located in the middle of nowhere.

The only substantive effect I can see of us scheduling a big name to come in and beat us on our own field is that it gives some people on this site something to brag about.


I take it you didn't watch the Pitt Game in 2005?


the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 7/28/2010 5:05 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
. . the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.


Come, come now . . . Pitt was comiing off an 8-4 season and a Fiesta Bowl appearance.  They had high expectations for the season and lost a number of close games -- including a one-point loss to Nebraska the week after they played Ohio.  Also,  lots of folks in SEO are Pirate fans and that helps give anything from the Iron City instant name recognition.  No, VMI would not have drawn a capacity crowd that would stay through the end of 4th Quarter, even if it had been a close game.  And, ESPN would not have shown up a game against VMI. 
Last Edited: 7/28/2010 5:06:52 PM by OhioCatFan
anorris
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Posted: 7/29/2010 10:36 AM
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Wes wrote:expand_more
...Ohio doesn't have a local TV package anymore but neither does Ohio State...

You do realize the reason OSU has no local TV package is because the Big Ten Network keeps the rights to those local games, and doesn't sell them on to local broadcasters, right?  Trust me, WBNS would go absolutely wild if they could get those games back.  They'd be more than willing to come televise us, too, if we generated enough interest to cover the cost of doing so.  We're a good way off from that, though.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 1:22 PM
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Wes wrote:expand_more
Unfortunately I don't think we're ever going to attract big-time opponents or tv slots, or even a lot of fans for that matter until we have a legitimate football stadium to play in. Peden is a glorified high school stadium. It's the Anderson Arena of MAC football. I know, I know...we can barely fill it now so what's the point in adding on? If we had something that resembled a D1 football stadium (I'm not talking huge - something around 35K) I think it would create a sense that it's a legitimate D1 program and not give fans and other programs the sense that they are playing a FCS school. "If you build it they will come". I think it would give students a fans the feeling that they can watch big-time football on campus rather than staying in and watching it on ESPN. Other programs my not be embarrased to come play us (the way are to play FBS teams), and ESPN might think about airing a game sometime other than Tuesday at midnight. Fans flipping through the channels aren't going to stop on ESPN if it looks like a West Texas high school game.

Would it be hard to fill for the first few years? Obviously it would be, but you can't build a program and exposure without it. Unfortunately, you can't build a stadium without success, so it's a catch-22.


I agree with where you are going here. The facility is often the face of the program. When somebody starts off a conversation about whether a school is legit D1 or not they refer back to the facility. The face of the Ohio Athletic Department is the Convo, not Peden Stadium. I've had people who didn't go to college while visiting in Northern Ohio tell me stories about the Convo. If we have the biggest basketball arena in the MAC why don't we have the biggest football stadium? Its hard to argue that Marshall football is small time when they play in a 40,000 seat house. A larger stadium is more fun to sit in, more of a magnet for students. Unfortunately though with today's construction costs it may be completely unfeasible. One alternative I've though of in response to the complaints I've heard over the years about the seating is to redesign the main grandstands by increasing the slope of the seats (to match the corners) and adding a few more rows. Peden Stadium has got to be #1 in the country for wasted space.
Good points, Wes. There does seem to be a lot of wasted space. I never understood why the two corner sections were "attached" to the stadium, as well. It would have given the feel of a much bigger stadium rather than a small stadium with a couple of bleacher add-ons. I guess my point really is that when I'm flipping through the channels I like to watch college footbal games that have some level of excitement (no matter what the conference) and that starts with a lot of fans present and something resembling a D1 stadium. It's about the atmosphere, and no matter how hard we try (victory hill is a nice addition) it will be very difficult to creat any type of atmosphere teams will want to play in or televise.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 3:32 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.


Pitt was 0-1 and ranked the week before (Lost to ND).

Had we played VMI we would not hae had ESPN, and therefore nowhere near the crowd we had.
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Ohio69 wrote:expand_more
What Ohio really needs to do is play less non-conference home games and more road big-money games each year.  Athletics needs the money badly.


Exactly!  The Love most definitely has melted down.  First of all...Iowa State - Minnesota - Pitt - UConn all notable home games in the recent past (and while both the PITT and Iowa State games are experiences I'll never forget, attendance for both the Minn & UConn games was embarrassing).  The Athens / Student demographic has shown us time and again that the ONLY thing they see as a worth while reason to attend games is consistent results.

Thanks to the vision of our current leadership we now have a program that's provided two MAC East Championships and two bowl game appearances not to mention notable big wins and a handful of truly competitive scares on National TV both home and away.

We're not shying away from big away games, which is the only meter I bother to gauge those kinds of decisions by.  While I'm on the subject I must again express thanks for getting done what previous staff's couldn't and scheduling Ohio State on a semi regular basis.  If we're going to climb to the top, we have to show well in our own State first.  Not to mention the fact that when you notch wins like Pitt, Illinois, Kentucky, Minnesota and Ohio State (I'll never count a Big 11 officiating staff gift as a loss) it gets harder and harder to convince elite programs to travel Athens (a fact I for one take pride in). 

We're making money with the non conference away schedule but not going crazy to the point where we sacrifice our health prior to what really matters when we get into the MAC schedule.  The elite programs schedule easier opponents in on conf for a reason the same reason we do...So we're not left out in the cold when the Bowl selections are done when one more win would have put us in regardless of who that win came against.

I for one couldn't be happier with the recent past and the future direction of our program.

I do however have to agree with the Love on one count...Anyone that would willingly plant their school's logo on something expressing thanks to A-Roid needs to check their priorities.  Embarrassing Kirby...       

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Posted: 7/29/2010 5:39 PM
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OrlandoCat wrote:expand_more
the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.


Pitt was 0-1 and ranked the week before (Lost to ND).

Had we played VMI we would not hae had ESPN, and therefore nowhere near the crowd we had.


thats my point, without ESPN and without it being Solich's debut we dont have that crowd, regardless of the opponent.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 5:47 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.


Pitt was 0-1 and ranked the week before (Lost to ND).

Had we played VMI we would not hae had ESPN, and therefore nowhere near the crowd we had.


thats my point, without ESPN and without it being Solich's debut we dont have that crowd, regardless of the opponent.


Then explain how the UConn game had a higher attendance.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 6:24 PM
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I'm on the fence on this whole issue. Looking at the Pitt game, yes it electrified the program. Keep in mind what really happened. Pitt came in as the defending Big East champions and started the season in the top 25. They got pasted by Notre Dame the week before. The result of our game, while exciting, was a bit of a fluke. How many times does a team have two pick sixes in one game, not to mention by the same player. Our defense was awesome, but offense and special teams were a nightmare. Playing these teams is one thing. Actually beating them is another thing. There's no doubt that our football program is in a much better place now than it was in the former half of this decade, but I don't think we could beat half of the teams in the BCS. So part of me wants us to improve on the recruiting front, and then we could see results. I do see your point, LOVE, that the Pitt win in an otherwise crappy season, registers with more people than, say, the win against Temple last year.

What upsets me the most is that it's 2010 and we have our OOC schedule announced through 2015. It would be different if we played the future schedules as they are but they were announced one at a time, ie the 2011 OOC schedule announced after the 2010 season concluded. That way, the athletic department could at least appear to be trying to put together an attractive set of opponents. The way it is now, it seems to say "This is how it's going to be and we're not going to deviate from the plan for at least five years."
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Posted: 7/29/2010 9:34 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
What upsets me the most is that it's 2010 and we have our OOC schedule announced through 2015. It would be different if we played the future schedules as they are but they were announced one at a time, ie the 2011 OOC schedule announced after the 2010 season concluded. That way, the athletic department could at least appear to be trying to put together an attractive set of opponents. The way it is now, it seems to say "This is how it's going to be and we're not going to deviate from the plan for at least five years."


Best point I've read all day. If I don't see the garbage for 2011-2015 already announced....we're talking about the Wofford game plan right now.

I realize the future schedules MAY be flexible, and MAY change...but Shaba hit the nail right on the head. The fact that they announced 6 years worth of this crap illustrated the long term strategy and vision for the program..and I wholeheartedly disagree with it.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 10:03 PM
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Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
What upsets me the most is that it's 2010 and we have our OOC schedule announced through 2015. It would be different if we played the future schedules as they are but they were announced one at a time, ie the 2011 OOC schedule announced after the 2010 season concluded. That way, the athletic department could at least appear to be trying to put together an attractive set of opponents. The way it is now, it seems to say "This is how it's going to be and we're not going to deviate from the plan for at least five years."


Best point I've read all day. If I don't see the garbage for 2011-2015 already announced....we're talking about the Wofford game plan right now.

I realize the future schedules MAY be flexible, and MAY change...but Shaba hit the nail right on the head. The fact that they announced 6 years worth of this crap illustrated the long term strategy and vision for the program..and I wholeheartedly disagree with it.


I think we are unified in that the schedules could be better. The problem with what I'm reading on here is that the solution has to be within the framework of today's reality. You can't make out the schedules year by year in college football. You can go back to playing 4 pay day games on the road. The NCAA minimum is 5 home games. One idea that could actually work that I've just come up with is play 1 FCS school for game #5 and then play perpetual 2 for 1 series with the nations best powers accepting no pay day cash in return. I'm talking here major SEC and Big XII schools with 60,000+ stadiums and up. That could equal 1 game at home in the league of Florida State, Texas A&M, Oregon in Peden every year. Sexy name in Peden annually. Then with the other 2 big names on the schedule the Bobcats stay relavent on ESPN for the whole first month of the season. Season ticket sales would double with the fanbase ensured a massive contest. Look at how its working for Marshall, every year they play WVU at home season tickets are way up. Then with the crap that Ohio State usually plays Ohio can advertise it as who would you rather see, Florida St or Youngstown St. Playing the names would help with recruiting. It would give Ohio a legit chance at a National Championship. It would be stronger than what OSU usually plays in the soft Big Ten. Ohio pulls off 1 win and can still go a reasonble 2-2 in non-conference counting the FCS layup. Then 4 MAC wins puts Ohio in a bowl at 6-6 against a South Carolina. Screw Kansas or Miami FL! I want to see OU. I want to see Alabama. Show me the Gators.
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Posted: 7/29/2010 10:26 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
I'm on the fence on this whole issue. Looking at the Pitt game, yes it electrified the program. Keep in mind what really happened. Pitt came in as the defending Big East champions and started the season in the top 25. They got pasted by Notre Dame the week before. The result of our game, while exciting, was a bit of a fluke. How many times does a team have two pick sixes in one game, not to mention by the same player. Our defense was awesome, but offense and special teams were a nightmare. Playing these teams is one thing. Actually beating them is another thing. There's no doubt that our football program is in a much better place now than it was in the former half of this decade, but I don't think we could beat half of the teams in the BCS. So part of me wants us to improve on the recruiting front, and then we could see results."


The Pitt game was a huge, huge upset for Frank in his first year. No doubt the Bobcats played over their heads. Next year was the same story, beating Illinios and finishing with 9 wins way premature in the overall development of the program. If you've watched the Bobcats over the last 3 seasons they've been competitive in every BCS game even against the finest teams. There is no BCS team that we cannot beat in a 1 game situation. The problem with the program at this juncture is that it must improve from a decent offensive team to a great one if it wants to make BCS bowls and so far I don't see any evidence of it. That is why I'm saying the long term prognosis is a 7-8 win program. I'm wondering if recruiting would pick up playing 3 top 25 bigs a year (1 at home) with schedules more worthy of national title contention. Then it could be 12-2 type seasons in a BCS bowl.
ts1227
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ts1227
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Posted: 7/29/2010 11:27 PM
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shabamon wrote:expand_more
the attendence at the Pitt game was just as much or more about it being Solich's coaching debut and OHIO's debut on ESPN then it was for hosting 0-2 Pitt. We could have played VMI and had the same crowd.


Pitt was 0-1 and ranked the week before (Lost to ND).

Had we played VMI we would not hae had ESPN, and therefore nowhere near the crowd we had.


thats my point, without ESPN and without it being Solich's debut we dont have that crowd, regardless of the opponent.


Then explain how the UConn game had a higher attendance.


$5 ticket promotion extended pretty much up until gameday (was supposed to end a month before the game).  I don't remember much discounting (if any?) for Pitt.  I'm almost positive there were no $5 seats for Pitt.

Also, Pitt was after week 1, UConn was move-in weekend.  Move-in generally draws better (because they were bating parents with $5 seats to get the sellout)
Last Edited: 7/29/2010 11:34:14 PM by ts1227
Bert Presley
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Posted: 7/30/2010 12:42 AM
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You know thinking about it, a $5 opener against an FCS to get the sellout might not be bad. It is a bad opponent, it is move in weekend I know my girlfriend's first experience at an Ohio Football game was us being on the wrong end at the hands of UCONN, it does make people feel better about the team to start off winning.
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