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Topic: We're Goin' Bowling!
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L.C.
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Posted: 11/3/2010 1:19 AM
I think the problem is how the bowl payout money is split. Remember, when Ohio plays in the Pizza Pizza bowl, Ohio does NOT receive the bowl payout. Instead that money goes to the MAC. The MAC then pays a set amount to Ohio, and divides the rest up. It seems to me that they should pay the team that actually plays in the bowl enough to pay for the bowl before starting to divide money up. To me, that's the thing that is wrong with the system.
JSF
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Posted: 11/3/2010 1:32 AM
AthensBlock wrote:expand_more
To be perfectly clear, I will never root against our guys.  My heart goes out to them for the situation they're in.


What situation are you talking about?  The situation of getting to spend another week with their friends and teammates on the road?  The situation of getting a chance to do something that's never been done before in school history?  The situation of getting to put the green and white back on one last time for the seniors? 

If you're heart goes out for our budget...then fine, that makes sense... but I'm having a hard time finding the negatives from an athlete's point of view...


That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.
catfan70
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Posted: 11/3/2010 11:56 AM
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.


ARE KIDDING???

ALL OF THE NON-BCS Teams, ALL of the MAC, ALL of the lower div, schools are in this same boat. We will never have a shot at the BCS, but we have a shot at our own titles.

As an OHIO Football, Basketball, Any sport, you are not playing for OHIO because you need to win titles or even respect, you play cause you WANT TO PLAY a sport on the college level. They play for the love of the game, the love of the school, and to get an education.

If you look down on someone (other then Fiami) because the name on the uniform, then you are a fan of the game, and are disrespecting the young athletes in them. 
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/3/2010 12:02 PM
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
To be perfectly clear, I will never root against our guys.  My heart goes out to them for the situation they're in.


What situation are you talking about?  The situation of getting to spend another week with their friends and teammates on the road?  The situation of getting a chance to do something that's never been done before in school history?  The situation of getting to put the green and white back on one last time for the seniors? 

If you're heart goes out for our budget...then fine, that makes sense... but I'm having a hard time finding the negatives from an athlete's point of view...


That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.


While I feel the pain and want a playoff as well, they knew that when they arrived on campus, so I can't feel they have been "wronged" since they got involved - they knew the score and knew a bowl game was their highest team reward.  Obviously, no one wants to take that away from them - nor would we - nor will the folks in the administration.
Athens
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Posted: 11/3/2010 12:28 PM
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
To be perfectly clear, I will never root against our guys.  My heart goes out to them for the situation they're in.


What situation are you talking about?  The situation of getting to spend another week with their friends and teammates on the road?  The situation of getting a chance to do something that's never been done before in school history?  The situation of getting to put the green and white back on one last time for the seniors? 

If you're heart goes out for our budget...then fine, that makes sense... but I'm having a hard time finding the negatives from an athlete's point of view...


That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.


That is a broad problem across the FBS football division. Aside from the SEC, Big Ten, Oregon, USC, Texas, Oklahoma with the present national title formula in place its a big question if any other schools in the system could theoretically win a national title. Its bigger than just an Ohio problem, a MAC problem, a non-BCS problem its literally a problem for all but an elite few. The opportunity is at least out there today for Ohio to prove its worth as a top 10 team with the BCS game access. That was an opportunity denied to Toledo and Miami when they had those great runs in the 1970's that Boise State is now getting with its 3rd consecutive undefeated regular season. Ohio has gone to 2 bowls under Frank Solich without winning the MAC title and that is an opportunity wouldn't have even been available under Jim Grobe. There is nothing in the system that is holding Ohio back anymore like it did in the 80's and 90's. With some tradition in place there is no reason why Ohio can't put together teams as strong as those we've seen in the Big East or Mountain West. They are doing it on the backs of 2 or 3 star recruits, on the backs of winning low payout bowl games.
JSF
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Posted: 11/3/2010 3:57 PM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
To be perfectly clear, I will never root against our guys.  My heart goes out to them for the situation they're in.


What situation are you talking about?  The situation of getting to spend another week with their friends and teammates on the road?  The situation of getting a chance to do something that's never been done before in school history?  The situation of getting to put the green and white back on one last time for the seniors? 

If you're heart goes out for our budget...then fine, that makes sense... but I'm having a hard time finding the negatives from an athlete's point of view...


That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.


While I feel the pain and want a playoff as well, they knew that when they arrived on campus, so I can't feel they have been "wronged" since they got involved - they knew the score and knew a bowl game was their highest team reward.  Obviously, no one wants to take that away from them - nor would we - nor will the folks in the administration.


Just because someone took a crappy deal doesn't excuse those who offered it.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/3/2010 6:28 PM
gman wrote:expand_more
That they have zero chance to compete for a national title no matter how good they are, no matter if they win a conference title, no matter if they're undefeated.  They will always been looked down upon because of their uniform, not their skill, and they have no way of earning respect on the field.  They are the only athletes in college sports that have this problem.


ARE KIDDING???

ALL OF THE NON-BCS Teams, ALL of the MAC, ALL of the lower div, schools are in this same boat. We will never have a shot at the BCS, but we have a shot at our own titles.

As an OHIO Football, Basketball, Any sport, you are not playing for OHIO because you need to win titles or even respect, you play cause you WANT TO PLAY a sport on the college level. They play for the love of the game, the love of the school, and to get an education.

If you look down on someone (other then Fiami) because the name on the uniform, then you are a fan of the game, and are disrespecting the young athletes in them. 


You really, really, really, really, really, really don't get it.

You're like someone who says it's okay to pay teachers really badly because "you don't want someone who's in it for the money." Well, guess what? Human beings are homo economicus. 
cc-cat
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Posted: 11/3/2010 7:20 PM
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
Just because someone took a crappy deal doesn't excuse those who offered it.


I'm sorry, is that what I said, if so I apologize.
Last Edited: 11/3/2010 8:08:53 PM by cc-cat
catfan70
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Posted: 11/4/2010 9:58 AM
Tim Burke wrote:expand_more
You really, really, really, really, really, really don't get it.

You're like someone who says it's okay to pay teachers really badly because "you don't want someone who's in it for the money." Well, guess what? Human beings are homo economicus. 


what????
Would I LOVE to see them on the National level, HELL YES, do I think we have the Alumni base/ money available to do it, NO.

I understand the idea of "in it for the money", but get real, OHIO is in the MAC.   Wouldn't exactly call it a gateway to the NFL. If you are playing for the cats you are playing for the love of football and to get an education. If the NFL comes a long after then that is gravy.

And for the "POOR" teachers who don't have a clue. I've got a friend who work 9 months a year and pulling over 70k as a 7th grade science teacher in the puplic school system.  And they complain they only get 3% a year raises. My job hasn't gave out raises for 3yrs.
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:21 AM
gman wrote:expand_more
And for the "POOR" teachers who don't have a clue. I've got a friend who work 9 months a year and pulling over 70k as a 7th grade science teacher in the puplic school system.  And they complain they only get 3% a year raises. My job hasn't gave out raises for 3yrs.

 

Puplic schools must pay really well. Is that a school system the educates both kids and dogs in a co-educational environment?

John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:32 AM
Wes wrote:expand_more
And for the "POOR" teachers who don't have a clue. I've got a friend who work 9 months a year and pulling over 70k as a 7th grade science teacher in the puplic school system.  And they complain they only get 3% a year raises. My job hasn't gave out raises for 3yrs.

 

Puplic schools must pay really well. Is that a school system the educates both kids and dogs in a co-educational environment?



Gman, teachers are like any other profession, you have some who just do not get it.  It being the big picture and scheme of things relative to their situation.

Wes:  Many districts in Ohio approach 70k and some are in the 80's and approaching 90k.  Education has come a long way in the past 30 years.

Last year the American Federation of Teachers reported that for the 1st time ever the average teacher's salary nationwide eclipsed $50,000.00.  This was in 2006-07 school year.
Last Edited: 11/4/2010 11:40:46 AM by John C. Wanamaker
Athens
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:54 AM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
And for the "POOR" teachers who don't have a clue. I've got a friend who work 9 months a year and pulling over 70k as a 7th grade science teacher in the puplic school system.  And they complain they only get 3% a year raises. My job hasn't gave out raises for 3yrs.

 

Puplic schools must pay really well. Is that a school system the educates both kids and dogs in a co-educational environment?



Gman, teachers are like any other profession, you have some who just do not get it.  It being the big picture and scheme of things relative to their situation.

Wes:  Many districts in Ohio approach 70k and some are in the 80's and approaching 90k.  Education has come a long way in the past 30 years.

Last year the American Federation of Teachers reported that for the 1st time ever the average teacher's salary nationwide eclipsed $50,000.00.  This was in 2006-07 school year.


That is interesting. I've heard of public school teachers pushing 90k around where I live but I'm in a town where the median home price is 450,000 a pricey market. Its like whats happened in the last 15 years with Federal Employees they've watched their salary double while the remainder of the country is subject to the ebb and flow of business cycles. I know its not a popular view among Tea Party types but the economy has completed its free market, consumer based transition and the governments role in the economy is going to become larger than industry's in sustaining this countries middle class.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/4/2010 12:21 PM
...deleted...nevemind....
 
Last Edited: 11/4/2010 12:23:39 PM by Ohio69
L.C.
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Posted: 11/4/2010 12:59 PM
Wes wrote:expand_more
...... the economy has completed its free market, consumer based transition and the governments role in the economy is going to become larger than industry's in sustaining this countries middle class.

The new political battlefront will be government employees (favoring higher taxes, bigger government) versus private employees. It is too late to stop, because there are too many people dependent on government. In the future, the middle and upper classes will be government employees and contractors, and the private sector will be mostly poor, at least until Atlas shrugs. Since government creates no wealth, the economy can not survive that way, so eventually the whole thing will collapse.
JSF
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Posted: 11/4/2010 1:43 PM
We're veering into forbidden territory.
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Posted: 11/4/2010 2:25 PM
I'm inviting LC to my dinner of "4 people you want to have dinner with" party.  Football knowledge and a very interesting economic theory lesson is sure to await!
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/4/2010 2:52 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...... the economy has completed its free market, consumer based transition and the governments role in the economy is going to become larger than industry's in sustaining this countries middle class.

The new political battlefront will be government employees (favoring higher taxes, bigger government) versus private employees. It is too late to stop, because there are too many people dependent on government. In the future, the middle and upper classes will be government employees and contractors, and the private sector will be mostly poor, at least until Atlas shrugs. Since government creates no wealth, the economy can not survive that way, so eventually the whole thing will collapse.


You should write  a book about that theory.

And it should be rambling, preachy, without cohesive character development, and 900 pages. High schoolers could write essays about it to earn a college scholarship and Alan Greenspan will oddly become sexually attracted to you instantly.

Call it "The Globe Guy Was Indifferent"


Last Edited: 11/4/2010 2:53:37 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/4/2010 3:06 PM
Relax, the FED just printed and monetized another $650 billion today for Wall Street.  Should not have any effect on inflation or the value of a split the pot ticket.  We can trust them because they tell us how much they care about us.  
Last Edited: 11/4/2010 3:17:38 PM by DublinCat
L.C.
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Posted: 11/4/2010 3:14 PM
The Fed can expand credit for now, without much impact on inflation because of private sector debt contraction. In time it will matter, but not in the short term.

As regards the other prediction, it is more of an observation than prediction - it is already happening in places such as Oregon and New Jersey. In New Jersey a one-term Governor is cutting government employment and benefits. At the other extreme, in Oregon government employees pushed through new taxes to pay for increased benefits. It will be interesting to watch how things develop in the next few years.
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
We're veering into forbidden territory.

The wind seems to be getting a bit chilly, doesn't it, and I thought I just heard someone mention Omsk.
Last Edited: 11/4/2010 3:32:27 PM by L.C.
Athens
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Posted: 11/4/2010 5:14 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...... the economy has completed its free market, consumer based transition and the governments role in the economy is going to become larger than industry's in sustaining this countries middle class.

The new political battlefront will be government employees (favoring higher taxes, bigger government) versus private employees. It is too late to stop, because there are too many people dependent on government. In the future, the middle and upper classes will be government employees and contractors, and the private sector will be mostly poor, at least until Atlas shrugs. Since government creates no wealth, the economy can not survive that way, so eventually the whole thing will collapse.


Taking your theory essentially in that the government taxes us all to provide for itself a budget and jobs therefore the government doesn't create true industrial wealth, it would be a lot stronger if the government didn't include the defense industry and federal funding for medical research. The government is an high tech incubator and supports projects that would be ignored by industry until mature. A lot of experimenters rely on federal funding. I have a friend who's father invented the first commercial aids test using optic refraction to condense it to a portable size. He started his career working on technologies through the Naval Research Labs, then left to start his own company. Prior to the 1930's free markets and trade markets gave America its competitive advantage but today its the broad based technical expertise and investment. The free market is still a player as the US has relatively low tax rates compared to other countries I can agree with that. The world economy is constantly in flux. The wages in heavy industry up until 30 years ago led the way for middle class in this country and now its the service economy. The problem with the service economy on the corporate side is that it can meet the needs of an ever specialized consumer. Trend is going to be back away from the superstores toward locally owned outfits. The milkman is making a return. 
JSF
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Posted: 11/4/2010 5:36 PM
OK, now I'm going to make a formal request you take the political talk elsewhere.  I have enough of it in other places.  Don't need it here.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/5/2010 12:00 AM
We're definitely going bowling.

How much sep is there between govt and private given the laws and tax code provisions loaded to favor businesses?  Do you much hear of provisions to give hard working joes a fair shake?  Or do the banks, credit card co's, financial institutions write or water down all the rules?  It's the golden rule; them what's got the cash makes rules in their own favor.
L.C.
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Posted: 11/5/2010 11:16 AM
Bobcat Dragon wrote:expand_more
OK, now I'm going to make a formal request you take the political talk elsewhere.  I have enough of it in other places.  Don't need it here.

My comments were primarily economic forecasts and historical observations, with some sociological commentary, and really weren't political in the sense that they didn't pertain to Democrat versus Republican at all. Nevertheless, this isn't an economic discussion board, either, so I'll desist.
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