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Topic: Penalty on Leftwich
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EastTennesseeBobcat
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:35 PM
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What the hell was that?  He led with his shoulder and didn't hit the reciever in the head.  A pansy call if you ask me. 
GoCatsGo
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:39 PM
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Hard but clean hit.  Shoulder to chest. That was definitely a blown call.
Buster
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:48 PM
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It's only going to get worse...
mid70sbobcat
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:50 PM
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Bad call, no doubt.

So so game IMO. McCrae made some good catches. The fumble by Boo deep allowed Buffalo to possibly get back into it.  And the penalties late were pathetic. I think one series we had a 4th and 34 with 4 penalties in the series. Buffalo isn't a good team. To see the crowd late in the game it looked like a high school game out in the sticks. Guess all the students decided to head uptown. But on TV it looked bad.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:59 PM
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It was a textbook play. He did everything right.

There's a pretty good screencap of it in that thread.
Steve
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Posted: 11/4/2010 11:59 PM
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Terrible call. Hit him with the shoulder and the kid was still trying to make a play on the ball. But as noted, it will only get worse because refs are now overeacting the other way.

Penalties were a downer. But we got the long drive when we needed it and McCrae made the big grab. 
Bobcat36
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:13 AM
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I can sum it up in 2 words...

MAC Officiating

That call was by far the worst but followed closely IMO by the spot they gave Riley when the ball was clearly well beyond the 1st down marker forcing a 4th and short / punt.  It was a critical call and it was flat out missed.
sargentfan
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:38 AM
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Yeah but in real motion the first time I saw it I thought it was 50/50 whether it was helmet lead or not.  I had the benefit of replay to see that it wasn't, the officials didn't so I can't hound them to much for this.  Especially since the officials have been given a mandate to do more to protect players. 
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:46 AM
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sargentfan wrote:expand_more
Yeah but in real motion the first time I saw it I thought it was 50/50 whether it was helmet lead or not.  I had the benefit of replay to see that it wasn't, the officials didn't so I can't hound them to much for this.  Especially since the officials have been given a mandate to do more to protect players. 


Finally a voice of reason!
Kinggeorge4
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:56 AM
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I thought he hit with the head too until I saw the replay.  Great hit, just looked bad in full speed.  Plus they are being very careful right now about head shots.
Last Edited: 11/5/2010 10:57:16 AM by Kinggeorge4
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 11/5/2010 11:01 AM
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It happened 15 yards in front of me and the ref had no choice but to call it - real time or not.  I thought the receiver actually caused the helmet to helmet by covering up as he came down.  Simple bad luck for us.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 11/5/2010 11:44 AM
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John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Yeah but in real motion the first time I saw it I thought it was 50/50 whether it was helmet lead or not.  I had the benefit of replay to see that it wasn't, the officials didn't so I can't hound them to much for this.  Especially since the officials have been given a mandate to do more to protect players. 


Finally a voice of reason!


So, you're saying if you're a referee and you think maybe, just maybe, it was a helmet shot you should throw the flag?

Here's another bogus call by the refs. A "dead ball, unescessary roughness" on TJ Carrie when the returner hasn't even caught the ball! I think the ref just threw the flag because the block ended up taking out three Bulls players. (Not sayin all the blown calls went against us...Boo got credit for a first down in the second half when he was at least half-a-yard short)

UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 11/5/2010 11:59 AM
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Bobcat36 wrote:expand_more
That call was by far the worst but followed closely IMO by the spot they gave Riley when the ball was clearly well beyond the 1st down marker forcing a 4th and short / punt.  It was a critical call and it was flat out missed.


I was definitely saying something to my wife about that one. I really wanted to see a replay to see if maybe a knee went down sooner than I thought, but they never showed one. But when it happened, I thought for sure he got the first down and I knew as soon as it was marked, he was marked well short. I think it was probably off by 2 yards.
Bobcatzblitz
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Posted: 11/5/2010 12:03 PM
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great hit by Leftwich! this kid can flat out play! Im looking at the replay and screen shot and I hope he continues to blow guys up! cant believe he is a sophmore wow!
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/5/2010 12:03 PM
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All correct.  Boo definitely got a good spot.  That one called for a measurement at least.... Riley was well beyond the 'yellow line' for the first down. ... In live action I could see how you'd call the blow to the receiver a helmet hit, though it clearly wasn't on replay.  But didn't the flag come from about 15 yards downfield behind Leftwich?  If so, the ref couldn't have had the proper view--ya had to be about even with the players to see it well....Great screenshot on the Carrie play.  Funny, in replay it looked like a good call by the ref.  Not so here.  But yeah, he got three guys--awesome!
Last Edited: 11/5/2010 12:04:19 PM by Monroe Slavin
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/5/2010 12:08 PM
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Mike the call on the punt was not in the discussion I was partaking.  I was speaking only to the hit on the sideline. 

Let's remember these guys are doing thing in real time speed, not HD on the 52" with slow-mo and frame by frame.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/5/2010 2:02 PM
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John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Mike the call on the punt was not in the discussion I was partaking.  I was speaking only to the hit on the sideline. 

Let's remember these guys are doing thing in real time speed, not HD on the 52" with slow-mo and frame by frame.


So you're defending referees calling random penalties they "might" have seen? That's now how logic works.

You only call a penalty if you know you saw it. There's no angle at which one can think they saw Leftwich committing a helmet-to-helmet hit.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/5/2010 2:34 PM
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NO Tim, I am not, NO WHERE did I say they called something they "might" have seen.  I simply stated that they do not get to sit on their couch watching 5 replay angles in HD on the TV.  They have to make decisions right now, based on the information they have.  Like any other person they are human and they make errors.  
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/5/2010 2:36 PM
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Tim Burke wrote:expand_more
Mike the call on the punt was not in the discussion I was partaking.  I was speaking only to the hit on the sideline. 

Let's remember these guys are doing thing in real time speed, not HD on the 52" with slow-mo and frame by frame.


So you're defending referees calling random penalties they "might" have seen? That's now how logic works.

You only call a penalty if you know you saw it. There's no angle at which one can think they saw Leftwich committing a helmet-to-helmet hit.


Tim, Obviously the angle that the Field Judge saw that play, he saw Leftwich commit a penalty, otherwise he wouldn't have thrown a flag.  I think that's how logic works.....Because believe it or not, if the official throws his flag and administers a penalty, that means that technically speaking there really was a violation. 
Last Edited: 11/5/2010 9:21:33 PM by John C. Wanamaker
Cats-22
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:16 PM
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Tim Burke wrote:expand_more
It was a textbook play. He did everything right.

There's a pretty good screencap of it in that thread.


It's a great picture in the other thread TB.  Leftwich was down low and hit with his shoulder, looked clean.  I do agree with the previous points though that the refs have a tough job in real-time, and they're responding to a national uproar.
Tim Burke
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Posted: 11/5/2010 10:30 PM
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John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Mike the call on the punt was not in the discussion I was partaking.  I was speaking only to the hit on the sideline. 

Let's remember these guys are doing thing in real time speed, not HD on the 52" with slow-mo and frame by frame.


So you're defending referees calling random penalties they "might" have seen? That's now how logic works.

You only call a penalty if you know you saw it. There's no angle at which one can think they saw Leftwich committing a helmet-to-helmet hit.


Tim, Obviously the angle that the Field Judge saw that play, he saw Leftwich commit a penalty, otherwise he wouldn't have thrown a flag.  I think that's how logic works.....Because believe it or not, if the official throws his flag and administers a penalty, that means that technically speaking there really was a violation. 


So the field judge was on LSD? Because I already established that there is no possible angle that he could have seen the violation occur. 
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/6/2010 7:42 AM
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Tim Burke wrote:expand_more
Mike the call on the punt was not in the discussion I was partaking. I was speaking only to the hit on the sideline.

Let's remember these guys are doing thing in real time speed, not HD on the 52" with slow-mo and frame by frame.


So you're defending referees calling random penalties they "might" have seen? That's now how logic works.

You only call a penalty if you know you saw it. There's no angle at which one can think they saw Leftwich committing a helmet-to-helmet hit.


Tim, Obviously the angle that the Field Judge saw that play, he saw Leftwich commit a penalty, otherwise he wouldn't have thrown a flag. I think that's how logic works.....Because believe it or not, if the official throws his flag and administers a penalty, that means that technically speaking there really was a violation.


So the field judge was on LSD? Because I already established that there is no possible angle that he could have seen the violation occur.
Sorry, Mr Burke, because you say so does not make it so. My eyes have been deceived given speed and unexpected movement. Since I have been mistaken, it is not my place to cast stones. Now, if you have never been mistaken, it might be for you to cast the first stone, though, casting stones usually is an ugly business, not what I want to be known for anyway.
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/6/2010 7:48 AM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
Yeah but in real motion the first time I saw it I thought it was 50/50 whether it was helmet lead or not. I had the benefit of replay to see that it wasn't, the officials didn't so I can't hound them to much for this. Especially since the officials have been given a mandate to do more to protect players.


Finally a voice of reason!


So, you're saying if you're a referee and you think maybe, just maybe, it was a helmet shot you should throw the flag?

Here's another bogus call by the refs. A "dead ball, unescessary roughness" on TJ Carrie when the returner hasn't even caught the ball! I think the ref just threw the flag because the block ended up taking out three Bulls players. (Not sayin all the blown calls went against us...Boo got credit for a first down in the second half when he was at least half-a-yard short)
I need help with the ruling on Mr. Carrie's penalty. Would it make a difference if the Ohio player receiving the punt had called a fair catch? Are players that have to back off their attempt to tackle protected from taking hits themselves?
Cats-22
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Posted: 11/6/2010 11:20 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Here's another bogus call by the refs. A "dead ball, unescessary roughness" on TJ Carrie when the returner hasn't even caught the ball! I think the ref just threw the flag because the block ended up taking out three Bulls players. (Not sayin all the blown calls went against us...Boo got credit for a first down in the second half when he was at least half-a-yard short)


I need help with the ruling on Mr. Carrie's penalty. Would it make a difference if the Ohio player receiving the punt had called a fair catch? Are players that have to back off their attempt to tackle protected from taking hits themselves?


The player did call for a fair catch there, that's why the Bulls are standing around.  But they don't get any protection in that instance, except from the player who signaled the fair catch (who isn't allowed to block).  The big problem as Mike says is the "dead ball" part.  The ball wasn't dead, as the picture shows.

I don't know if the Ohio staff normally sends tape to the MAC office about calls, but for this game it seems like a good idea.  Two players were called for personal fouls they didn't commit.
Last Edited: 11/6/2010 11:26:46 AM by Cats-22
shabamon
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Posted: 11/6/2010 1:12 PM
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Also, is Carrie expected to know that his teammate is calling fair catch?

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