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Topic: Midweek game attendence-how low can you go?
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colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/12/2010 11:07 AM
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This has been discussed before, but just look at this week's games so far-Sucks at BG-12,000, Pitt at UConn-35,000, Toledo at NIU-18,000, East Carolina at UAB-15,000.  These just kill fan participation, at least at the games.  Other than TV exposure (some of it indecent to be sure), do the teams or leagues get anything out of these games?   Are empty seats of any value to a program or league?  How much average on-site revenue is lost due to these mid-week games?  Can anyone make any sense of this?   It makes no sense to me.
Mike Coleman
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Posted: 11/12/2010 11:47 AM
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The question "how low can you go" will be answered during the Miami @ Akr0n game on Wednesday night at 6 p.m.
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Posted: 11/12/2010 1:46 PM
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Colo66, I am glad someone agrees with my take on this one.  Throw in some evening fog at BG with all those empty seats and you have a great product for the national audience and prospective students.

I ask, again, how much revenue does the MAC and OUr institution get for these games?  They certainly are NOT fan friendly but look at all the national exposure the MACs empty stadiums get!

I was at the Buff game and I can assure you there were about half the "announced" butts in the seats.
colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/12/2010 1:58 PM
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Right on.  TV apparently is king whether it makes sense or not.   Maybe we just shouldn't bother with fans on site at all-saves the usher and ticket-taker expenses-and play before an totally empty stadium which seems to be where this is heading. 
perimeterpost
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Posted: 11/12/2010 2:19 PM
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I don't think people are sitting at home saying "I don't understand why there aren't 60K people watching two MAC schools play in the cold on a Tuesday". If anything I think more people were surprised by the packed house at NIU then they were by the empty seats at BG.

I'm in the camp of any TV is better than no TV.
Casper71
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Posted: 11/12/2010 2:35 PM
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It really is a cost/benefit thing...

That's why I keep wondering two things:

1.  What is the market share in states that we recruit students and athletes from?  Maybe even a question on OU admissions forms/alumni surveys about how many OU games seen on TV before applying/giving and how viewing games affected the admission/giving decision.  The whole philosphy behind being on TV, after all, is to generate interest among students, athletes and alumni isn't it?  So, let's at lesat try to measure something!

2.  How much revenue doues OUr insttution receive per game?

I think if anybody could provide us this kind of  information, some (including me) MIGHT feel differently about the concept of mid week games.  Can anybody help? 

Ryan Carey
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Posted: 11/12/2010 3:15 PM
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Mike Coleman wrote:expand_more
The question "how low can you go" will be answered during the Miami @ Akr0n game on Wednesday night at 6 p.m.


Not football related, but I'm curious to see what Kent gets for their 8:00 AM basketball game on TUESDAY morning against Robert Morris.  It's on ESPN and part of their 24 hours of basketball event, but who in the hell is going to be watching it?  Retired people and the jobless are going to be the audience.  Students will be in class (they have classes at Kent, no?) and high school students won't be watching!  At least these mid-week football games are on TV and in prime-time.  I say it will be an epic fail for Kent.
anorris
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Posted: 11/12/2010 3:23 PM
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Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
It's on ESPN and part of their 24 hours of basketball event, but who in the hell is going to be watching it?


Me!  But granted, I'm a poor example, as it will be reading day before exams, and I love the opportunity to see two teams go at it when we play them both later in the season.  (I'm also planning on catching the 4am CMU tilt!)
colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/12/2010 4:21 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
I don't think people are sitting at home saying "I don't understand why there aren't 60K people watching two MAC schools play in the cold on a Tuesday". If anything I think more people were surprised by the packed house at NIU then they were by the empty seats at BG.

I'm in the camp of any TV is better than no TV.


18,000 a packed house at NIU?  I guess you see what you want or rather what the TV want you to see.
davepi2
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Posted: 11/12/2010 4:27 PM
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good point about the miami-akron game. I was at the northern-akron game and although the crowd was announced as 12000 there were not half that many there. I was given two free tickets at the 50 ,10 rows up that is how few there were. That game might make the crowd for the northern-kent game in 08 game look big(it was played in a lake effect snow storm). Of course now does anyone remember how many people were left at the ohio-kent game in 06 after the lightning delay. The only ones left were the ohio fans who took over the sections right behind the ohio bench because all the kent fans had gone home. Not many people and the weather was the worst I have exsperienced for a game but d### that game was fun
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Posted: 11/12/2010 4:32 PM
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Have you noticed, however, that the only way to get the real exposure, which is a SportsCenter mention, is to have your game on ESPN.  Each of these weeknight games has led to 15 minute fame moment for some lucky MAC player.  It's happened every time, I think.  It isn't just the live broadcast.

I think we're put off by it more because we're the fans being asked to sit there on Tuesday night, 75 or more miles from home, in the cold, with the coffee sold out, and, No, I'm not bitter about it.
Bobcat36
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Posted: 11/12/2010 4:54 PM
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Great point!

Even though they are shameless in the promotion of their own games...You gotta love the coverage Boo got from his escapades in the Buffalo game!
perimeterpost
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Posted: 11/12/2010 5:08 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
I don't think people are sitting at home saying "I don't understand why there aren't 60K people watching two MAC schools play in the cold on a Tuesday". If anything I think more people were surprised by the packed house at NIU then they were by the empty seats at BG.

I'm in the camp of any TV is better than no TV.


18,000 a packed house at NIU?  I guess you see what you want or rather what the TV want you to see.


regardless how many were actually there, it looked full on TV, the crowd was loud, and it looked like a good atmosphere. They had the mic so close to the NIU drumline I thought Roert Smith was broadcasting from inside a bass drum. ESPN did a good job of making it look like a good football atmosphere, whether it really was or not. Couple that with a dominant performance and I though NIU came across as impressive. Compared to the embarrassment of the dozens of fans at the BGSU game its hard to believe both those games were from the same conference.

We all would like to have the Gameday crew roll into Athens on a saturday morning, but until then winning on ESPN 2, 5, or 6 is better than nothing.
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Posted: 11/12/2010 6:14 PM
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FWIW, I was at a sports bar in Newark on Wednesday night and they were showing the Miami/BGSucks game on all of the TVs. Granted, I don't think many people were paying attention because they were playing pub quiz but at least the game was on in many packed bars across the country.
Ohio69
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Posted: 11/12/2010 6:27 PM
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Mid week games suck.  Period.


El Gato Roberto
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Posted: 11/12/2010 7:23 PM
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DelBobcat wrote:expand_more
FWIW, I was at a sports bar in Newark on Wednesday night and they were showing the Miami/BGSucks game on all of the TVs. Granted, I don't think many people were paying attention because they were playing pub quiz but at least the game was on in many packed bars across the country.


I was sitting at a bar in a restaurant in Indiana and they switched out of the ForeHawk-BGSUcks game to the CMA Award Show.  So...
bobcat28
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Posted: 11/12/2010 7:52 PM
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I was in a sports bar in South Carolina last year for the Buffalo game and they had our game on every tv.
Last Edited: 11/12/2010 8:03:36 PM by bobcat28
Athens
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Posted: 11/12/2010 8:46 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Other than TV exposure (some of it indecent to be sure), do the teams or leagues get anything out of these games?   Are empty seats of any value to a program or league?  How much average on-site revenue is lost due to these mid-week games?  Can anyone make any sense of this?   It makes no sense to me.


Take a look at the home box scores for UL-lafayette, Buffalo in 2010 and compare those to NIU and Temple in 2009. A game on Halloween, Thursday night, the day after Thanksgiving, on a Saturday in late Novemeber it does't really make a difference all of those games list at 15,000. The MAC does not draw in November except for rare circumstances so those games may as well be played midweek. A recruit largely judges the stature of a program by #1 its conference and #2 by how much TV exposue. The other non-BCS conferences would love to have so much late season exposure with division titles on the line but the MAC was the conference to pioneer the mid season schedule package and signed a long term package to lock it up. The alternative was no national TV coverage at all, not an idea league football coaches are excited to entertain.  
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Posted: 11/12/2010 11:00 PM
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perimeterpost wrote:expand_more
I don't think people are sitting at home saying "I don't understand why there aren't 60K people watching two MAC schools play in the cold on a Tuesday". If anything I think more people were surprised by the packed house at NIU then they were by the empty seats at BG.

I'm in the camp of any TV is better than no TV.


18,000 a packed house at NIU?  I guess you see what you want or rather what the TV want you to see.


regardless how many were actually there, it looked full on TV, the crowd was loud, and it looked like a good atmosphere. They had the mic so close to the NIU drumline I thought Roert Smith was broadcasting from inside a bass drum. ESPN did a good job of making it look like a good football atmosphere, whether it really was or not. Couple that with a dominant performance and I though NIU came across as impressive. Compared to the embarrassment of the dozens of fans at the BGSU game its hard to believe both those games were from the same conference.

We all would like to have the Gameday crew roll into Athens on a saturday morning, but until then winning on ESPN 2, 5, or 6 is better than nothing.

I agree that the NIU fans looked great on national TV. Regardless of the fan turnout for mid-week MAC games, I think it is pretty damn cool to walk into a sports bar in Chicago where everyone is watching the game. Plus, it is nice see those highlights on SportsCenter during the week. Let me know if you see any MAC highlights on SportsCenter during weekend games. Are we really complaining about MAC games on ESPN?
colobobcat66
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Posted: 11/12/2010 11:19 PM
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Hey, we are getting some pretty good ideas on this.  Keep it coming.  It's great for you guys who hang in bars watching the games-you get every game there.  Most folks at home don't get ESPNU or on some nights the VT game is on and the MAC game is relegated to a secondary ESPN channel.   And if the MAC can't get more than 15,000 out to a November game, then it is hopeless and mid-week is better than the alternative.  I'm not sure of the stats on this since so many games are mid-week to tell what Sat games would do.
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Posted: 11/13/2010 12:29 AM
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Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
(they have classes at Kent, no?)


Asked AND answered, as they say.

TV = revenue + exposure + remote Ohio fans can watch.  To quote an all-time great (just ask him):  End of discussion.  Next thread.
Last Edited: 11/13/2010 12:30:29 AM by Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/13/2010 12:43 AM
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davepi2 wrote:expand_more
good point about the miami-akron game. I was at the northern-akron game and although the crowd was announced as 12000 there were not half that many there. I was given two free tickets at the 50 ,10 rows up that is how few there were. That game might make the crowd for the northern-kent game in 08 game look big(it was played in a lake effect snow storm). Of course now does anyone remember how many people were left at the ohio-kent game in 06 after the lightning delay. The only ones left were the ohio fans who took over the sections right behind the ohio bench because all the kent fans had gone home. Not many people and the weather was the worst I have exsperienced for a game but d### that game was fun


Mike Johnson and I were part of that hardy (or crazy) group that was there for the whole game.  Worst weather I've ever experienced for a football game (including the 1997 NC State game), but the fourth quarter made it worth it. 
mf279801
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Posted: 11/13/2010 8:35 AM
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Ryan Carey wrote:expand_more
The question "how low can you go" will be answered during the Miami @ Akr0n game on Wednesday night at 6 p.m.


Not football related, but I'm curious to see what Kent gets for their 8:00 AM basketball game on TUESDAY morning against Robert Morris.  It's on ESPN and part of their 24 hours of basketball event, but who in the hell is going to be watching it?  Retired people and the jobless are going to be the audience.  Students will be in class (they have classes at Kent, no?) and high school students won't be watching!  At least these mid-week football games are on TV and in prime-time.  I say it will be an epic fail for Kent.


Actually I don't think they do have classes. How else to explain the fact that they kent read and kent write?
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Posted: 11/13/2010 1:07 PM
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colobobcat66 wrote:expand_more
Most folks at home don't get ESPNU or on some nights the VT game is on and the MAC game is relegated to a secondary ESPN channel.  


I don't have ESPN, ESPN 2 or ESPNU. I don't have a Tivo. I watched the Ohio-Buffalo game on my TV last Wednesday night because I have ESPN3. Your excuse making for the worthlessness of televised games isn't factoring in how technology is changing the way people watch games. I live in ACC country and am able through ESPN3 to watch WAC games all saturday long.
Last Edited: 11/14/2010 11:45:54 AM by Athens
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/13/2010 1:23 PM
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channelsurfing.net   If it's on tv anywhere, it seems to be available there.
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