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Topic: New conference by 2025?
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Pataskala
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Posted: 12/11/2022 9:29 PM
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The current 1AA/FCS joint venture between the Atlantic Sun and WAC is expected to move up by 2025 and become the 11th conference in D1A/FBS. They expect to be a nine-team conference initially (Abilene Christian. Austin Peay, Central Arkansas, Eastern Kentucky, North Alabama, Southern Utah, Stephen F. Austin, Tarleton State and Utah Tech) in 2024 and maybe Texas-Rio Grande Valley in 2025. With Jacksonville St, Sam Houston and Kennesaw St already scheduled to move up next year, the new conference would make 144 teams in the subdivision. More competition in recruiting and maybe for scheduling "P" teams. Likely more bowl games, too. https://footballscoop.com/news/two-fcs-leagues-planning-t...
TWT
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Posted: 12/11/2022 10:28 PM
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The rule at least I thought is a FBS conference must have 8 all sport members so this football only confederation won't ultimately work for moving up to FBS. The rule is also any institution must have an invite to an existing FBS conference to move up. Liberty was granted an exception to this rule. They were a member of the Atlantic Sun and in plans for larger scale migration of the Atlantic Sun in the past but jumped at a CUSA invite as fast as it became available. CUSA I also thought had taken the air out of the plans of the Atlantic Sun by pulling in their best upgrade prospects. Skeptical I am for this to actually happen.
greencat
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Posted: 12/11/2022 10:40 PM
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Count me skeptical too. Former d-2 powerhouse North Alabama is struggling horrifically in FCS. And their stadium (belongs to the city of Florence AL actually) is nowhere near ready for a move up.
mf279801
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Posted: 12/12/2022 10:26 AM
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Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
The rule at least I thought is a FBS conference must have 8 all sport members so this football only confederation won't ultimately work for moving up to FBS. The rule is also any institution must have an invite to an existing FBS conference to move up. Liberty was granted an exception to this rule. They were a member of the Atlantic Sun and in plans for larger scale migration of the Atlantic Sun in the past but jumped at a CUSA invite as fast as it became available. CUSA I also thought had taken the air out of the plans of the Atlantic Sun by pulling in their best upgrade prospects. Skeptical I am for this to actually happen.
Apparently (according to something i read online somewhere, so take it with a grain of salt) there is another rule allowing an exception to the “must have an invite from an existing FBS conference” rule: a conference that used to be FBS but dropped can return to being FBS. That’s why the WAC’s involvement is important.
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/12/2022 10:42 AM
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This hodge podge mess of schools is about as ridiculous as the hodge podge mess of schools that the new Conference USA is about to be. May as well just combine the two. Seriously look at the similarities here:

Conference USA
Florida International (FL)
Western Kentucky (KY)
Middle Tennessee (TN)
Louisiana Tech (LA)
UTEP (TX)
Jacksonville State (AL)
Liberty (VA)
New Mexico State (NM)
Sam Houston State (TX)
Kennesaw State (GA)

New Conference
Abilene Christian (TX)
Austin Peay (TN)
Central Arkansas (AR)
Eastern Kentucky (KY)
North Alabama (AL)
Southern Utah (UT)
Stephen F. Austin (TX)
Tarleton State (TX)
Utah Tech (UT)

Multiple Texas schools? Check.
Kentucky school? Check.
Tennessee school? Check.
Alabama school? Check.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/12/2022 10:56 AM
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I'm surprised that Murray State is not in this mix. Need to have a representative of the State of Purchase. [You'll need to delve into your Kentucky and Tennessee history for that one.]

I'm still hoping that the MAC Daddies will find a new dancing partner for WKU, and that the Hilltoppers will be added to our conference.
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/12/2022 11:26 AM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
I'm surprised that Murray State is not in this mix. Need to have a representative of the State of Purchase. [You'll need to delve into your Kentucky and Tennessee history for that one.]

I'm still hoping that the MAC Daddies will find a new dancing partner for WKU, and that the Hilltoppers will be added to our conference.
As much as I'd like to see it, we're gonna need to see them meet someone halfway. EKU seems like a logical fit, but from what I've read WKU more or less looks down their nose at the school in Richmond. I think WKU is happy enough with the new schools joining CUSA that they'll tolerate it for a while.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/12/2022 11:41 AM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
I'm surprised that Murray State is not in this mix. Need to have a representative of the State of Purchase. [You'll need to delve into your Kentucky and Tennessee history for that one.]

I'm still hoping that the MAC Daddies will find a new dancing partner for WKU, and that the Hilltoppers will be added to our conference.
As much as I'd like to see it, we're gonna need to see them meet someone halfway. EKU seems like a logical fit, but from what I've read WKU more or less looks down their nose at the school in Richmond. I think WKU is happy enough with the new schools joining CUSA that they'll tolerate it for a while.
I don't get the impression they are very happy with the new C-USA. The last time was on the WKU board there were lots of complaints. I agree that they won't come into the MAC with EKU and absolutely not with Murray State, which recently joined the MVC.
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/12/2022 11:46 AM
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Another issue they'll have is stadium capacity. There's still the rule that they have to average at least 15,000 attendance over a certain number of years to maintain D1A status. Most of the teams' stadiums won't handle that:

Abilene Christian, 12,000; Southern Utah, 8,500; Utah Tech, 10,500; SFA, 15,000; Tarleton, 9,000; North Bama, 14,215; Central Ark, 10,000; Austin Peay, 10,000; EKU, 20,000. The two stadiums UTRGV plans to use once it gets its program up and running each have a 10,000 capacity.
Bobcat1998
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Posted: 12/12/2022 12:59 PM
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I'd still love to see the MAC expand. I know that we tried already with Western and Middle Tennessee but I think it'd be a great league:
MAC NORTH: Eastern Michigan
Western Michigan
Central Michigan
Buffalo
Toledo
BG
Northern Illinois

MAC SOUTH
Ohio
Kent
Akron
Miami
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee
Ball State
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/12/2022 1:47 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Another issue they'll have is stadium capacity. There's still the rule that they have to average at least 15,000 attendance over a certain number of years to maintain D1A status. Most of the teams' stadiums won't handle that:

Abilene Christian, 12,000; Southern Utah, 8,500; Utah Tech, 10,500; SFA, 15,000; Tarleton, 9,000; North Bama, 14,215; Central Ark, 10,000; Austin Peay, 10,000; EKU, 20,000. The two stadiums UTRGV plans to use once it gets its program up and running each have a 10,000 capacity.
To that point:

https://extrapoints.substack.com/p/the-ncaas-attendance-r...
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/12/2022 2:01 PM
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I was curious and wanted to check, but FCS attendance numbers are really interesting:

https://herosports.com/fcs-football-2022-attendance-leade... /

EKU averaging 12K puts them right about the middle of the pack in the MAC.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 12/12/2022 4:38 PM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
Another issue they'll have is stadium capacity. There's still the rule that they have to average at least 15,000 attendance over a certain number of years to maintain D1A status. Most of the teams' stadiums won't handle that:

Abilene Christian, 12,000; Southern Utah, 8,500; Utah Tech, 10,500; SFA, 15,000; Tarleton, 9,000; North Bama, 14,215; Central Ark, 10,000; Austin Peay, 10,000; EKU, 20,000. The two stadiums UTRGV plans to use once it gets its program up and running each have a 10,000 capacity.
I very well May be wrong here, but I believe that rule was deep-six’ed awhile back.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/12/2022 5:47 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Another issue they'll have is stadium capacity. There's still the rule that they have to average at least 15,000 attendance over a certain number of years to maintain D1A status. Most of the teams' stadiums won't handle that:

Abilene Christian, 12,000; Southern Utah, 8,500; Utah Tech, 10,500; SFA, 15,000; Tarleton, 9,000; North Bama, 14,215; Central Ark, 10,000; Austin Peay, 10,000; EKU, 20,000. The two stadiums UTRGV plans to use once it gets its program up and running each have a 10,000 capacity.
I very well May be wrong here, but I believe that rule was deep-six’ed awhile back.
I think it's been effectively deep-sixed. I don't think they ever formally rescinded it, but I believe they don't enforce it any longer. I recall reading a number of years ago that there were some threatened legal challenges to it, and after that it appears that the NCAA just quietly stopped enforcing it. I also could be wrong, but when BTC are playing for the same page in the playbook, how likely is that? ;-)
Pete Chouteau
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Posted: 12/15/2022 6:22 PM
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The NCAA might or might not still have rules about stadiums and attendance and Bowl or Playoff subdivisions.

The NCAA has many, many rules.

The NCAA enforces few, if any, of them.

If the WAC says they're FBS, there's no structure that will stop them.
GoCats105
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Posted: 12/15/2022 7:34 PM
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Pete Chouteau wrote:expand_more
The NCAA might or might not still have rules about stadiums and attendance and Bowl or Playoff subdivisions.

The NCAA has many, many rules.

The NCAA enforces few, if any, of them.

If the WAC says they're FBS, there's no structure that will stop them.
About the only rule they've enforced when it comes to this involves schools transitioning up from FCS to FBS. But it's stupid for schools like App State and James Madison who clearly are established enough and can handle the move. I understand the meaning of the rule so you can't just have any school think they're FBS material, but read the room.
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/15/2022 11:18 PM
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GoCats105 wrote:expand_more
The NCAA might or might not still have rules about stadiums and attendance and Bowl or Playoff subdivisions.

The NCAA has many, many rules.

The NCAA enforces few, if any, of them.

If the WAC says they're FBS, there's no structure that will stop them.
About the only rule they've enforced when it comes to this involves schools transitioning up from FCS to FBS. But it's stupid for schools like App State and James Madison who clearly are established enough and can handle the move. I understand the meaning of the rule so you can't just have any school think they're FBS material, but read the room.
It's interesting that they let smaller conferences play D1 b-ball with an auto tourney bid even though they don't play a home game until January, often have conference champions with losing overall records, and rarely have a team in the top 200. Yet in order to be an "FBS" football conference they have to jump through hoops. If schools are willing to shell out the money and maybe not win an OOC game for five or six years, why not let them. I read that UTRGV let their students vote on whether to have a sizable increase in fees in order to start a football program with the prospect of jumping to "FBS" in a few years and it passed by a good margin. If the students and the board are for the idea, let 'em do it.
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Posted: 12/16/2022 6:39 AM
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Pataskala wrote:expand_more
I read that UTRGV let their students vote on whether to have a sizable increase in fees in order to start a football program with the prospect of jumping to "FBS" in a few years and it passed by a good margin.
That begs the question, how many of those Yes votes were cast by students whose parents are paying those fees?
Pataskala
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Posted: 12/16/2022 9:25 PM
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bobcatsquared wrote:expand_more
I read that UTRGV let their students vote on whether to have a sizable increase in fees in order to start a football program with the prospect of jumping to "FBS" in a few years and it passed by a good margin.
That begs the question, how many of those Yes votes were cast by students whose parents are paying those fees?
Are there any students these days whose college costs aren't paid either by their parents (either outright or through a parent-backed loan) or some kind of scholarship/grant? If so, they're probably in poorer areas like south Texas.
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