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Topic: Grobe's Seat is gettting very hot....
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/17/2010 10:01 PM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
and seriously we are talking about this why? . . .  


I actually have no idea, JCW.  I guess it's hard to resist a little thread drift every now and then.   

(Translation of emoticons: I feel partly chagrined, partly embarrassed, and always sarcastic about my answer)
Cat4ever
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Posted: 11/19/2010 9:43 AM
Paul Graham wrote:expand_more
The dude left us high and dry with Knorr. He basically killed my football experience in Athens (I graduated in '04). He should not be allowed to return.


Paul, that seems like a very unfair assessment. As disappointed as I was (from a thousand miles away) about Jim Grobe's departure, when I did my homework I discovered that going to Wake was essentially "going home" for him, a UVA grad.

Furthermore, Brian Knorr took the reins of a team that had gone 7-4 under Grobe and (JCW, correct me if I'm wrong about this) had virtually all the starters plus the kickers returning.  In other words, Jim Grobe left what, for him, would have been the ingredients for possibly the best Ohio football experience since 1968. 

To me, that certainly isn't bailing out or leaving a program high-and-dry.  To me, that's being excited about another opportunity to elevate a decrepit situation at -- or at least "near" -- home.

What I've always been curious about is just exactly what happened in 2001.  Can someone share some insights about how a 7-4 team returning most of its starters (plus the kickers) went to 1-10?!  And please: No one-word answers (Knorr) or two-word answers (Brian Knorr).  I'd like deeper insight into what happened.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/19/2010 10:02 AM
Ohio had 18 of the 22 starters returning, plus all three specialist.  The 2001 team was a victim of poor defensive scheming by Tim Kish and his basterdized version of defense, and hard luck as by the middle of the year the backfield was made up of all walk-ons.  That is also the year that Tom Boeh sold out to the conference to give us an opener against Akron for a future consideration of TV.

We lost 4th quarter leads against Akron (last second FG), West Virginia (TE fumbled on 3 yd line going in), Iowa State (Senneca Wallace), and a Toledo (14 pt lead with 5 min to play).  From the Toledo game on the Cats were without J-Patterson and Chad Brinker and the season went downhill from there.

Side note, Grobe's 2000 defense of which 10 starters were returning was a top 10 National Defense.

Grobe's 2000 team also put the most points on the board since the 1968 team.
Last Edited: 11/19/2010 10:04:31 AM by John C. Wanamaker
td111896
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Posted: 11/19/2010 11:47 AM
Knorr's biggest mistake was hiring Kish as his defensive coordinator and not having the spine to tell him he had to keep running an attacking 3-4, which is what the personnel was recruited to do.  Instead he deferred to what he perceived to be more coaching experience and allowed Kish to run that horrendous version of the 4-3 that broke before it ever had time to bend.  

Early on, they were in every game and scored a lot of points in the process, including against a ranked Toledo team. 

Things with Gregory didn't go downhill until the losses started piling up and the players, especially Dontrelle Jackson,  started getting frustrated.  Throw in losing Brinker to the tumor, and Knorr lost control of the program in very short order.

Knorr had numerous opportunties to beat Akron in his debut.  A dropped INT at the end of the game would have sealed it but instead the Zips were given new life and drove right down the field in a later possession, just like every other team that season, and kicked a game winning FG with no time left.  I sometimes wonder if things would have been different had he won that game.

One final note:  Knorr was warned not to take the job by none other than Grobe himself.  As was alluded to earlier in the thread, it was first offered to Mitchell and Calhoun, both of whom wanted no part of it due to who their boss would be.  Grobe didn't leave OU or Athens; Grobe left Tom Boeh.
Last Edited: 11/19/2010 11:51:07 AM by td111896
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/19/2010 12:07 PM
Tim Kish falls directly on the head of Tom Boeh, that was a forced hire and a forced position.  Tom worked at Northwestern when Kish was on staff there and he forced Brian to take him and make him the DC.  In several ways Brian was cut-off at the knees before he ever got started.

I do agree, that Akron game would have done a lot if the Cats would have pulled that one out.
td111896
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Posted: 11/19/2010 1:29 PM

I saw where I repeated a lot of what you had already stated, so I apologize for that.

Thanks for that tidbit of informaiton -- I knew a lot about the situation, but that's the first I knew of Boeh foisting Kish upon Knorr.

Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/19/2010 10:08 PM
Late in the 'kron game--at 'kron, first game of Knorr's tenure, I was there live--we had a 4th and about a yard at about their 30 down about a point.  We'd run all over them--they couldn't stop us.  As we couldn't stop them--the beginning of the downhill go for the defense that others have painted above.  Instead of going for it on 4th down, we kicked the field goal to go up a few.  'kron got the ball on the kickoff with about a minute to go and, VERY predictably, took it in for six and the win.  It was timid football that was obviously going to lose us the game.  And it did.

Then, a few games later (I believe) we got smashed at Beefalo to end their nation-leading losing streak of about 17 games.  My details/memory are hazy but I think we lost by about 30.  The wheels were off and even the diehards here had to get aboard the calls for the end of the Knorr era (I was first on that train).....Maybe the Beefalo game was in Knorr's 2nd year?  It was horrible.

Sad, really.  'cause we were 7-4 the year before Knorr began, ending with a resounding thumping of stupd cow at GloriOUs Peden (I was there for that one, too!) and we were stacked and in shape to be really good the next year.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 11/19/2010 10:36 PM
td111896 wrote:expand_more
. . . Grobe didn't leave OU or Athens; Grobe left Tom Boeh.


This is as good a summation as I've heard of why Grobe left Ohio at the time he did.  He may very well have left a few years down the road, but good old TB certainly hastened his departure.  I had my own little confrontation with TB, but that's a subject for another day.
boonie88
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Posted: 11/20/2010 8:23 PM
td111896 wrote:expand_more
Knorr's biggest mistake was hiring Kish as his defensive coordinator and not having the spine to tell him he had to keep running an attacking 3-4, which is what the personnel was recruited to do.  Instead he deferred to what he perceived to be more coaching experience and allowed Kish to run that horrendous version of the 4-3 that broke before it ever had time to bend.  

Early on, they were in every game and scored a lot of points in the process, including against a ranked Toledo team. 

Things with Gregory didn't go downhill until the losses started piling up and the players, especially Dontrelle Jackson,  started getting frustrated.  Throw in losing Brinker to the tumor, and Knorr lost control of the program in very short order.

Knorr had numerous opportunties to beat Akron in his debut.  A dropped INT at the end of the game would have sealed it but instead the Zips were given new life and drove right down the field in a later possession, just like every other team that season, and kicked a game winning FG with no time left.  I sometimes wonder if things would have been different had he won that game.

One final note:  Knorr was warned not to take the job by none other than Grobe himself.  As was alluded to earlier in the thread, it was first offered to Mitchell and Calhoun, both of whom wanted no part of it due to who their boss would be.  Grobe didn't leave OU or Athens; Grobe left Tom Boeh.



Kish was terrible! Throw in that no one like him it was doomed from the start. I still to this day scratch my head about the 2001 season.
John C. Wanamaker
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Posted: 11/21/2010 9:52 AM
Grobie also left for a boat load of more money, membership at three different country clubs and many more perks than he got to enjoy here in Athens. 
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 11/21/2010 11:34 AM

Pizza promotion at yesterday's Wake Game:  http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=192&f=1118&t=6743710

 

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