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Topic: New Mexico Bowl or Las Vegas Bowl
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UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 12/2/2010 2:43 PM
There have been so many rumors, I decided to evaluate things myself. What I came up with is this:

Assuming Washington beats Washington State as expected and Oregon State loses to Oregon as expected, there will be 71 bowl-eligible teams for 70 spots.

The leagues with extra teams to fill bowls as at-larges are the ACC (one), the Big East (one) and the MAC (three). This is based on the assumption that the at-large BCS bids will go to the Big 10, SEC, Mountain West and Pac-10. I think even if there are upsets, this will be the case. For example, if Auburn loses, the SEC teams in the BCS will be Auburn and South Carolina instead of Auburn and Arkansas. And if Oregon loses, they and Stanford still likely will be BCS teams from the Pac-10.

Of course, Louisiana Tech and Middle Tennessee State also could become bowl-eligible with upset wins this weekend, but their conferences have filled their allottments already, so it is not likely they would be selected for a bowl with 6-6 records over 8-4 MAC teams. The Sun Belt does serve as an automatic backup for the Little Caesar's, but only if the team is at least 7-5.

The conferences not able to fill their bowl spots are the Big Ten (one spot) and the Pac-10 (probably three spots), and those bowls are: Little Caesar's Bowl, Sun Bowl, Las Vegas Bowl and the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl (in San Francisco).

The Little Caesar's Bowl will be lucky if it can get Louisville to come because I doubt the ACC's extra team will want to come, and that leaves only MAC schools to fill the void (against a MAC team!) That was a rumor I had heard but could hardly believe. I think the MAC had better do all it can to get Louisville to take that spot.

Most projections have the ACC taking the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl spot, potentially against Boise State, but I think a MAC team could get that spot if Boise State stays home for the Humanitarian instead.

Also of note, the New Mexico Bowl really isn't a possibility for the MAC anymore because Boise State's loss takes them out of the BCS and enables the WAC to fill all of its spots and the Mountain West can fill all of its spots with Army taking one of them).

I also wouldn't rule out Ohio getitng one of the MAC-affiliated bowls yet.


Anyway, here is the complete breakdown:

ACC
Bowl tie-ins: 8
Bowl eligible teams: 9
 
Big 12
Bowl tie-ins: 8
Bowl eligible teams: 8
 
Big East
Bowl tie-ins: 6
Bowl eligible teams: 6 (plus Notre Dame can take any Big East spot)
 
Big Ten
Bowl tie-ins: 8 (plus likely BCS at-large)
Bowl eligible teams: 8
 
Pac-10
Bowl tie-ins: 6 (plus likely BCS at-large)
Bowl eligible teams: 3 (plus possibility of 2 more, 1 likely)
 
SEC
Bowl tie-ins: 9 (plus likely BCS at-large)
Bowl eligible teams: 10
 
Conference-USA
Bowl tie-ins: 6
Bowl eligible teams: 6
 
MAC
Bowl tie-ins: 3
Bowl eligible teams: 6
 
Mountain West
Bowl tie-ins: 5 (plus likely BCS at-large)
Bowl eligible teams:  5 (plus Army has taken 1 spot)
 
Sun Belt
Bowl tie-ins: 2
Bowl eligible teams: 2 (plus possibility of 1 more)
 
WAC
Bowl tie-ins: 5
Bowl eligible teams: 4 (plus the possibility of 1 more and Navy has taken 1 spot)
 
Conferences with at-large teams: ACC (one), Big East (one), MAC (three)
Conferences not able to fill bowls: Big Ten (one: Little Caesar’s Bowl), Pac-10 (probably three: Sun, Las Vegas and Kraft Fight Hunger)
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 12/2/2010 3:31 PM
D.A. wrote:expand_more
To unapologetically steal from Wanny (and his countless rants about actual attendance v solds), I think butts in seats means far less to the bowl organizers, it's TICKETS SOLD that matters.  If a school committs to buying an allotment regardless of the actual in person usage, then they have accomplished their mission.

Would they rather have people at the game, for sure, but as long as SOMEONE buys the tickets, that is their fiscal mission.  After all, how many people in a bowl city are williing to shell out significant cash to see numbers 45 and 70 play one another, especially if there isn't a regional school present.  You aren't going to sell out more than a dozen of these games during bowl season regardless of who is playing in the second tier bowls, so the organizers just want to move the tiks, crowd be damned.

And if a school can make the number work by purchasing 10k in seats, considering the whole financial package for participating in a bowl, then more power to them for making sure they look appealing to the bowl organizers.


Wrong. Sure, the bowl wants to sell tickets, but the host city wants their restaurants, watering holes, and hotels packed for the weekend or whatever days surround the bowl. Tickets sold are just one factor. And on top of that, they want people packing their grocery stores to get  their tailgate needs. Follow the $$$
Last Edited: 12/2/2010 3:31:48 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
mcbin
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Posted: 12/2/2010 5:54 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Have to agree about the GMAC Bowl with Mark.  You have to count all the Ohio fans there, not just the number of tickets sold through our athletic dept.  Our showing fan wise wasn't all that bad considering all the factors.

Having said that, our fan showing last year for the Pizza Bowl in Detroit was less impressive considering all the factors. 


You can't discount the CACHE that we had in Mobile b/c of our crazy-long bowl drought. Once that CACHE wore off, you saw what happened when we were placed in a bad bowl with a bad opponent.

You just don't realize how much the opponent matters, and how it translates to dollars, but I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face.

I've got CACHE baby.


My reasons for smaller attendance than we could have otherwise:

1) One thing that I think may have as much or more to do with attendance than most, is notice ahead of time. I have a feeling that every day (early or late) that the bowl+date is known/not known, it probably is worth a bunch of potential attendees. And when our pool to draw from is small to begin with, it matters a lot. Like if you announce we are going to Detroit today vs two weeks from now, I think it's going to make 750 people difference.

2) Other reason. Slow starts. Period. Team and fans don't get the hype and publicity after a so-so losing start to the season. And for whatever reason, we're prone to this.
During the bowl years,
2006 was a 2-3 start. One of the losses being to BG.
2009 was a 2-2 start. Loss to quality teams, but nonetheless, started out with a loss at home. (UCONN)
2010 was a 1-3 start. Baaaad losses to Marshall & Toledo to start. Very winnable games.
Granted after these slow starts, the Cats come back and finish strong (usually, cough), but the damage IMO is already done.

I don't discount that a certain opponent probably makes somewhat of a difference, but I don't know how big. A 6-6 Illinois/Indiana/UCLA(last yr) team in a bowl vs a MAC school might excite a few extra folks, but not sure how many. After all, we just played #2 Kansas (big name/high rank) out in Vegas, and there were less than 200 Ohio fans in attendance. So I have a tough time believing a 'name' opponent causes us to draw too much more.
Last Edited: 12/2/2010 5:55:23 PM by mcbin
D.A.
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Posted: 12/2/2010 9:43 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
To unapologetically steal from Wanny (and his countless rants about actual attendance v solds), I think butts in seats means far less to the bowl organizers, it's TICKETS SOLD that matters.  If a school committs to buying an allotment regardless of the actual in person usage, then they have accomplished their mission.

Would they rather have people at the game, for sure, but as long as SOMEONE buys the tickets, that is their fiscal mission.  After all, how many people in a bowl city are williing to shell out significant cash to see numbers 45 and 70 play one another, especially if there isn't a regional school present.  You aren't going to sell out more than a dozen of these games during bowl season regardless of who is playing in the second tier bowls, so the organizers just want to move the tiks, crowd be damned.

And if a school can make the number work by purchasing 10k in seats, considering the whole financial package for participating in a bowl, then more power to them for making sure they look appealing to the bowl organizers.


Wrong. Sure, the bowl wants to sell tickets, but the host city wants their restaurants, watering holes, and hotels packed for the weekend or whatever days surround the bowl. Tickets sold are just one factor. And on top of that, they want people packing their grocery stores to get  their tailgate needs. Follow the $$$


Don't get me wrong DFC, I'm not comparing an Ohio traveling fan base to a Tennessee or a Georgia's in a bowl selection committee's eyes, I'm comparing an Ohio to a Toledo/Temps/NIU/Fiami/Troy/FIU/etc.  There are dozens of bowl eligible teams that will be lucky to travel over 1,000 fans unless the game is within a half day's drive, if even then.  Surely a bowl would rather have a down traditional power than a middling team with a limited fan base.
Last Edited: 12/2/2010 9:47:52 PM by D.A.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/2/2010 11:02 PM
mcbin wrote:expand_more
Have to agree about the GMAC Bowl with Mark.  You have to count all the Ohio fans there, not just the number of tickets sold through our athletic dept.  Our showing fan wise wasn't all that bad considering all the factors.

Having said that, our fan showing last year for the Pizza Bowl in Detroit was less impressive considering all the factors. 


You can't discount the CACHE that we had in Mobile b/c of our crazy-long bowl drought. Once that CACHE wore off, you saw what happened when we were placed in a bad bowl with a bad opponent.

You just don't realize how much the opponent matters, and how it translates to dollars, but I'll keep saying it till I'm blue in the face.

I've got CACHE baby.


My reasons for smaller attendance than we could have otherwise:

1) One thing that I think may have as much or more to do with attendance than most, is notice ahead of time. I have a feeling that every day (early or late) that the bowl+date is known/not known, it probably is worth a bunch of potential attendees. And when our pool to draw from is small to begin with, it matters a lot. Like if you announce we are going to Detroit today vs two weeks from now, I think it's going to make 750 people difference.

2) Other reason. Slow starts. Period. Team and fans don't get the hype and publicity after a so-so losing start to the season. And for whatever reason, we're prone to this.
During the bowl years,
2006 was a 2-3 start. One of the losses being to BG.
2009 was a 2-2 start. Loss to quality teams, but nonetheless, started out with a loss at home. (UCONN)
2010 was a 1-3 start. Baaaad losses to Marshall & Toledo to start. Very winnable games.
Granted after these slow starts, the Cats come back and finish strong (usually, cough), but the damage IMO is already done
.

I don't discount that a certain opponent probably makes somewhat of a difference, but I don't know how big. A 6-6 Illinois/Indiana/UCLA(last yr) team in a bowl vs a MAC school might excite a few extra folks, but not sure how many. After all, we just played #2 Kansas (big name/high rank) out in Vegas, and there were less than 200 Ohio fans in attendance. So I have a tough time believing a 'name' opponent causes us to draw too much more.


Dear Mr. mcbin--I have taken some heat for suggesting the highlighted part of what your wroted above.  You should not post contrary thoughts.
mcbin
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Posted: 12/3/2010 4:27 AM
I'm not sure why that's so hard to believe. It seems obvious to me. And those two reasons I put up do actually affect some of the group I go to games with and have season tickets with. I'll note the day after Christmas last year also made it a no-go for a few of the guys also. And I'm not sure what can be done about some of it either, but it does have an impact.
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/3/2010 5:02 PM
New Mexico Bowl is out - BYU - UTEP is confirmed.

Vegas is Utah versus........
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 12/3/2010 6:50 PM
[QUOTE=Monroe Slavin
Dear Mr. mcbin--I have taken some heat for suggesting the highlighted part of what your wroted above.  You should not post contrary thoughts.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps not deserved heat. But "wroted" is another matter.
Casper71
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Posted: 12/5/2010 12:13 AM
Las Vegas Bowl-Utah vs Boise IF Boise (#(9) gets a BCS waiver per a Salt lake City news article.

Scratch one.
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