menu
Logo
Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Another perspective on the Break Even Bowl, etc.
Page: 2 of 3
Robert Fox
General User
RF
Member Since: 11/17/2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Post Count: 2,039
person
mail
Robert Fox
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 10:06 AM
Jim Mosher wrote:expand_more
Because OU is never likely to reach the elite level — although they might become quite good — they can only ever expect to receive a small percentage of the benefits that OSU receives. This small level of benefits relative to OSU consequently justifies spending several magnitudes lower than OSU is spending even when Bobcat athletic teams are successful.


Is the author suggesting that this is not already happening? OU already spends "several magnitudes lower than OSU."

The author does not calculate the value of exposure. What is that worth? Instead he trumpets the "397 tickets worth $15,000," in an effort to totally discredit the ICA. That's not an honest argument.
D.A.
General User
DA
Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Georgetown, ME
Post Count: 1,198
person
mail
D.A.
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:00 AM
Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Dude's a poli sci prof, and in all the college fairs I've worked on behalf of Ohio I have never had a student ask me about Ohio's poli sci program.

Almost every prospective student asks me about Ohio's ICA program.

Next.


And what exactly do they ask you about ICA - do we have a men's track team, do we have a men's swimming team, do we have a men's soccer team, do we have a men's lacrosse team, do we have a crew team.  Up your way all of those sports are big at the high school level.




You would be surprised (although I am haven't been) how important elective/non-class oriented activities are to prospective students, particularly when you explain that Athens in not in/near a major metro, and is actually quite rural.


Speaking as one who has worked with students in public and private schools from North Carolina to Illinois to Maine for the past 33 years, your conversation is a bit different from the ones I've had with prospective students.  Yours sounds like a conversation with the stereotypical high school boy who is fixated on three things - sports, girls and where he's going to get his next meal.  Because my contact has been with kids who tend to be the cream of the crop the conversation has more to do with academic programs.  OU has some great ones and unfortunately some not so great ones.  

By the way volleyball has been to the NCAA tournament 8 years in a row.  Add that to your speech and maybe drop the company line of bowl eligible.  A kid who scores 58.3% on his test is bowl eligible when you compare the percentage of teams in D 1 that get to go to the Break Even Bowl or better.  I don't think we want many kids who score in that range coming to OU.


I can clearly see how it would support your positiion by assuming that all I discuss with prospective students is ICA, but clearly I am at a College Fair to discuss academics first, and I have the same conversations you reference above in addition to ICA.  However it is RARE that I don't also have the conversation I detail above, as one of the five Admissions collateral pieces is the Attack Cat Logo with Extra Cirricular opportunities listed on the back.  And not surprisingly, it is typically the first piece of collateral that a student picks up...unaided.
Ohio69
General User
O69
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 3,124
person
mail
Ohio69
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:03 AM


Bob Walter $10,000,000 > Professor Mosher's opinion.

 

Last Edited: 1/28/2011 11:04:56 AM by Ohio69
D.A.
General User
DA
Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Georgetown, ME
Post Count: 1,198
person
mail
D.A.
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:05 AM
Robert Fox wrote:expand_more
Because OU is never likely to reach the elite level — although they might become quite good — they can only ever expect to receive a small percentage of the benefits that OSU receives. This small level of benefits relative to OSU consequently justifies spending several magnitudes lower than OSU is spending even when Bobcat athletic teams are successful.


Is the author suggesting that this is not already happening? OU already spends "several magnitudes lower than OSU."

The author does not calculate the value of exposure. What is that worth? Instead he trumpets the "397 tickets worth $15,000," in an effort to totally discredit the ICA. That's not an honest argument.


Clearly he doesn't understand that tOSU's Athletic Budget exceeds $130MM annually, that their football program consitiutes one quarter of that, and that tOSU's English department has less faculty than tOSU's ICA department.  And I'll save you the reply board tOSU fans who regularly point out that they make money, I know they break even every year.  I am simply addressing Mosher's point.
Last Edited: 1/28/2011 2:39:50 PM by D.A.
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,376
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:18 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Saying Diagnostic Hybrids is an Ohio University endeavor is like saying Stanford should take credit for Google. You can feasibly make the claim, but it's very questionable.


Perhaps you should read the history of the company Aaron

History

Diagnostic Hybrids was founded in 1983 by successful biomedical entrepreneur Wilfred R. Konneker, Ph.D., in collaboration with Ohio University Professors Joseph Jollick, Ph.D., and Thomas E. Wagner, Ph.D., who led the OU research team that developed the world's first transgenic animal. Through our tenacity, optimism, and discipline we continue to develop innovative research. The company became a subsidiary of Quidel Corporation in February 2010.

My words, this company was developed in and came out of OU Innovation Center.  Can't get a better connection than that.

See you Monday with another tidbit.


 

Bobcat Love
General User
BL
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Post Count: 1,193
person
mail
Bobcat Love
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:25 AM
Again, Alan - you go back to the 1980's for a deliverable.

Let's do something in the 2000's.

I'm not taking credit away, but the Google analogy is actually very close here. The OU Prof's were secondary figures in the founding of the company to the lead Entrepreneur.

Seriously, we need to keep this limited to the past 10 years at least.
John C. Wanamaker
General User
Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 1,103
mail
John C. Wanamaker
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:27 AM
D.A. wrote:expand_more
Because OU is never likely to reach the elite level — although they might become quite good — they can only ever expect to receive a small percentage of the benefits that OSU receives. This small level of benefits relative to OSU consequently justifies spending several magnitudes lower than OSU is spending even when Bobcat athletic teams are successful.


Is the author suggesting that this is not already happening? OU already spends "several magnitudes lower than OSU."

The author does not calculate the value of exposure. What is that worth? Instead he trumpets the "397 tickets worth $15,000," in an effort to totally discredit the ICA. That's not an honest argument.


Clearly he doesn't understand that tOSU's Athletic Budget exceeds $130MM annually, that their football program consitiutes one quarter of that, and that tOSU's English department has less faculty than tOSU's ICA department.  And I'll save you the reply Oz and JCW, I know they break even every year.  I am simply addressing Mosher's point.


Hey, not sure why you drag my name into defending OSU here?  This article is not about OSU, this is about what we need to do, and I am on record in this thread and others that we need to make the commitment.  I do not mind the little jabs but at least put me on the right side of the plate here. 

The only point I see Mosher really making that holds any water with me, is that as a department and University we hide our real intentions.  We need to publicly promote the good that happens (we don't) we need be up front that the benefits are this, and we need to take a stern stance with the naysayers that this is what it is and this is our commitment.  We don't!
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,376
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:39 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Again, Alan - you go back to the 1980's for a deliverable.

Let's do something in the 2000's.

I'm not taking credit away, but the Google analogy is actually very close here. The OU Prof's were secondary figures in the founding of the company to the lead Entrepreneur.

Seriously, we need to keep this limited to the past 10 years at least.


The $50,000,000 in revenue from these two ventures for OU was realized in the last two to three years with the DH sale just this past year.  That's pretty current if you ask me.  The fruits of one's labor in science takes more than one season.
Terry Lee
General User
TL
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 49
person
mail
Terry Lee
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 11:57 AM
Didn't they come from a stock donation to the Foundation?
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,376
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 2:13 PM
Terry Lee wrote:expand_more
Didn't they come from a stock donation to the Foundation?


http://www.ohio.edu/outlook/2009-10/January/DHI-bought-25...
Last Edited: 1/28/2011 2:13:59 PM by Alan Swank
D.A.
General User
DA
Member Since: 8/6/2010
Location: Georgetown, ME
Post Count: 1,198
person
mail
D.A.
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 2:42 PM
John C. Wanamaker wrote:expand_more
Because OU is never likely to reach the elite level — although they might become quite good — they can only ever expect to receive a small percentage of the benefits that OSU receives. This small level of benefits relative to OSU consequently justifies spending several magnitudes lower than OSU is spending even when Bobcat athletic teams are successful.


Is the author suggesting that this is not already happening? OU already spends "several magnitudes lower than OSU."

The author does not calculate the value of exposure. What is that worth? Instead he trumpets the "397 tickets worth $15,000," in an effort to totally discredit the ICA. That's not an honest argument.


Clearly he doesn't understand that tOSU's Athletic Budget exceeds $130MM annually, that their football program consitiutes one quarter of that, and that tOSU's English department has less faculty than tOSU's ICA department.  And I'll save you the reply Oz and JCW, I know they break even every year.  I am simply addressing Mosher's point.


Hey, not sure why you drag my name into defending OSU here?  This article is not about OSU, this is about what we need to do, and I am on record in this thread and others that we need to make the commitment.  I do not mind the little jabs but at least put me on the right side of the plate here. 

The only point I see Mosher really making that holds any water with me, is that as a department and University we hide our real intentions.  We need to publicly promote the good that happens (we don't) we need be up front that the benefits are this, and we need to take a stern stance with the naysayers that this is what it is and this is our commitment.  We don't!


Sorry Wanny, I fixed it for you in my original post above, and I agree that the Prez/Board/AD need to do a better marketing job on the topic than they have done to this point.
John C. Wanamaker
General User
Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 1,103
mail
John C. Wanamaker
mail
Posted: 1/28/2011 4:36 PM
Thanks, I appreciate it.
txshack
General User
T
Member Since: 9/1/2010
Post Count: 79
person
mail
txshack
mail
Posted: 1/29/2011 3:53 AM
   

Love is right on the money. In Texas where I work and live Ohio is known first for it's sports not academics. We're The Original OU in my neighborhood  not the dyslexic U of O and The Ohio University as opposed to duh ohio state university at work. Co-workers and neighbors watch our scores, converse with  me about them and ask if I attended. They pull for us to win. Co-workers and neighbors stay away for 24 hours after any loss to fiami and I don't need to tell them the score they watch for it and know  The Tea Sips, Ags, Irish and Cardinal  travel all over the country to their games as do I to ours. Several of my co-workers kids have visited Athens for athletic reasons, two for baseball, one for football and one for girls swimming. In contrast  I've not been back to Athens for any academic reason since I graduated. .. The only time academics has been  mentioned  at work was after the Russ Engineering scandal as I work for a engineering /construction firm and was told not to hire anyone from Ohio for "awhile".... as opposed to after the mascot fight/scandal  I actually recieved a standing "O" in our weekly managers meeting and was asked if there was anywhere we could  hire Rufus. BTW we are now hiring Mechanical,Civil, Electrical Engineers with min 3.4's and Petro Chem. exp.

BTW  speaking of bowl finances  .....here is a  comparison of bowl ticket prices we paid this year. My nephew flew  to New Orleans on his way to the fiami game so at 11:00am the day of the Sugar Bowl he convinced  two co-workers and myself  to  drive to New Orleans. There were thousands upon thousands of unsold tickets to the "sold out" game so we ended up paying $100 for 4 tickets on the 30 yard line. So I paid $40 for our bowl game which equaled the $25 for the Sugar Bowl and $15 for the "sold out"Texas Bowl (a game we also went to).  My nephew paid $10 for the Go Daddy, $25 for the Sugar... less than it would have cost him to go to our game.  I guess that's why many fans do not go through their schools ticket offices since they know that only a couple of the bowls actually sell out.
crackerbaby00
General User
C00
Member Since: 3/9/2007
Post Count: 442
person
mail
crackerbaby00
mail
Posted: 1/29/2011 11:49 AM
Maybe I am reading the article wrong, but is the author saying that even though the bowl game was budgeted for, OU still lost money on it.  Basically, he was saying just because you budget for a loss does make it a loss, right?  If that is the case, doesn't the University take a loss on the salaries paid to everyone that works there, like the author of the article?  Interestingly, we probably "lost" almost as much money on him this year as we did to send an entire football team to NO to give the school national publicity (even if it came in a loss)
Last Edited: 1/29/2011 11:50:34 AM by crackerbaby00
Voice of Reason
General User
Member Since: 7/29/2010
Post Count: 249
mail
Voice of Reason
mail
Posted: 1/29/2011 2:35 PM
The reason the athletic department presented the finances for the bowl game the way they did is simple.  They got so much crap and backlash from previous bowl games for just throwing the athletic department money that wasn't a part of the budget and wasn't planned for, that they wanted to show it had been planned and budgeted for.  The goal was most likely to shutup these academic extremists who would love to make you think that their anti-athletics viewpoint represents the majority at Ohio University.  However, they are really a minority, and a small one at that, that constantly uses public forums to take cheap shots and make athletics out to be the bully that beats kids up and takes their lunches!

I have gotten so tired of this garbage from a small portion of faculty.  I would just like to point out that a majority of the opposition comes from professors in areas that probably feel threatened by these budget cuts because deep down they realize that they do not provide university near as much as they like to make it seem.  The result...desperation!  They know they are on the verge of being cut and probably should be, but they don't want to lose the program or the job that they love.  Soooo they find the one thing at the university that is different, athletics, and run a smear campaign and attack it publicly in an effort to take the focus off of them.  They win people over because the athletics department can't publicly defend itself.  You think this is far fetched?  Well then why don't you ever hear the College of Business professors attacking athletics? Why do you rarely, if ever, hear anything from the College of Engineering professors?  SIMPLE: Lack of desperation!  The reason you never see the pro athletics argument printed, I'm not talking about on an athletics forum Swank, is because McDavis knows all of this and realizes the value athletics provides the university and just doesn't want to waste his time or breath.  

Lastly, I want to address the argument that athletics doesn't generate revenue for the university.  20-25% of the department's budget is allocated to scholarships.  The university would never see a dime of that money or see a dime of the money paid by non-scholarship athletes if not for athletics.  More than 400 STUDENT-athletes would go to another school and the university would lose roughly $5M per year in revenue and just about the only external marketing or advertising ability that the school has.  No Athletics...No problem. I promise the cost the university would have to incur to promote the school without athletics would more than cover the athletics budget!  
OhioCatFan
General User
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 15,715
mail
OhioCatFan
mail
Posted: 1/29/2011 9:52 PM
Voice of Reason wrote:expand_more
. . . .  I would just like to point out that a majority of the opposition comes from professors in areas that probably feel threatened by these budget cuts because deep down they realize that they do not provide university near as much as they like to make it seem.  The result...desperation!  They know they are on the verge of being cut and probably should be, but they don't want to lose the program or the job that they love.  Soooo they find the one thing at the university that is different, athletics, and run a smear campaign and attack it publicly in an effort to take the focus off of them.  They win people over because the athletics department can't publicly defend itself.  You think this is far fetched?  Well then why don't you ever hear the College of Business professors attacking athletics? Why do you rarely, if ever, hear anything from the College of Engineering professors?  SIMPLE: Lack of desperation!  The reason you never see the pro athletics argument printed, I'm not talking about on an athletics forum Swank, is because McDavis knows all of this and realizes the value athletics provides the university and just doesn't want to waste his time or breath. 


Excellent point.  I made a similar point in a similar thread in the pre-crash era.  Another way that you could say essentially  the same thing is that the university's focus of power has shifted over the last few decades.   We once were something close to an overgrown liberal arts school with a faculty elite in the College of Arts and Sciences that ran the show.  Now, we've evolved into a much more broad-based educational enterprise.  You now have a College of Osteopathic Medicine, a College of Health and Human Services, and a strengthened (despite the scandal) College of Engineering, and a world-class School of Journalism that have more muscle and have collectively wrested control away from the arts and sciences folks.  The latter group is very upset at their lack of institutional muscle and are lashing out.  Desperation is a good word for it.  Fortunately their day is over, Ohio University is no longer in their grip.  Expect them to fight tooth and nail as we go forward, but it's a battle they are losing and will ultimately lose. 
Last Edited: 1/30/2011 12:09:07 AM by OhioCatFan
John C. Wanamaker
General User
Member Since: 1/2/2005
Post Count: 1,103
mail
John C. Wanamaker
mail
Posted: 1/29/2011 11:39 PM
GooD analysis OCF, that is one reason I'd like to see a strong statement of commitment from the highest up the food chain you can get. Their attacks get old and the media with which they use is older.
Bobcat Love
General User
BL
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Post Count: 1,193
person
mail
Bobcat Love
mail
Posted: 1/30/2011 8:42 PM
Got tied up with some things this weekend....so let's go Regional Campus scandal for today....

http://wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=68166

Swank, I haven't even pulled out the big guns yet.
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,376
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 1/30/2011 9:07 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Got tied up with some things this weekend....so let's go Regional Campus scandal for today....

http://wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=68166

Swank, I haven't even pulled out the big guns yet.


Aaron, after thinking about this the last two days, I see no reason to continue this juvenile exercise in "who hit who last" particularly when your hits disparage the reputation of your alma mater.  Not sure what the point in that would be so I'm checking out of this discussion with you.

As for the Break Even Bowl, we did not break even but we operated within budget.  Hopefully when the team qualifies for a bowl next year, that will be the position going in leaving no room for second guessing or criticism.   I think that's a fair request.
Bobcat Love
General User
BL
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Post Count: 1,193
person
mail
Bobcat Love
mail
Posted: 1/30/2011 10:31 PM
Alan, come on. You are taking this completely out of context.

The argument made by the commenter in the Athens News article is that the Athletic Budget could be better put to use by sending dollars to the College of Engineering and other Departments. I would argue the following:

1. Based on the scandals and academic output coming out of Stocker and other Departments, I would not give these departments one more red cent then they are currently allotted.

2. I'm bringing to light scandals / headlines made by a few. Not the majority. I simply support keeping or increasing the current athletic budget instead of allocating dollars to the departments named by the commenter. This isn't a knock on the University as a whole. The biggest knock I have on the University right now is the increased enrollment where they will let any Tom, Dick, or Harry into the place to get the numbers up.

3. The data breach and the Engineering scandal are the only things I would describe as disparaging, and I haven't even gotten to those yet. I think most would agree those were embarrassing on a National / Global level, and put a black mark on the University. Why would we direct more money at the department that is solely responsible (Engineering) for such an inane black mark?

Be honest, you ran out of material....

Doc Bobcat
General User
DB
Member Since: 12/20/2004
Post Count: 4,421
person
mail
Doc Bobcat
mail
Posted: 1/31/2011 8:45 AM
Vedder at it again:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2...
Last Edited: 1/31/2011 8:46:20 AM by Doc Bobcat
Voice of Reason
General User
Member Since: 7/29/2010
Post Count: 249
mail
Voice of Reason
mail
Posted: 1/31/2011 9:09 AM
First of all, any report or study involving David Ridpath should be taken with a grain of salt.  The guy has a personal vendetta against the NCAA and College Athletics(http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/447/292/50...; He has been extremely involved with the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics and any good reporter looking for a gem of a quote knows to go to him because he speaks first and thinks later.  He might have a slight confirmation bias when it comes to the results. 
Ohio Hoops
General User
Member Since: 7/18/2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Post Count: 173
mail
Ohio Hoops
mail
Posted: 1/31/2011 10:24 AM
Voice of Reason wrote:expand_more
First of all, any report or study involving David Ridpath should be taken with a grain of salt.  The guy has a personal vendetta against the NCAA and College Athletics(http://cases.justia.com/us-court-of-appeals/F3/447/292/50...; He has been extremely involved with the Knight Commission on Intercollegiate Athletics and any good reporter looking for a gem of a quote knows to go to him because he speaks first and thinks later.  He might have a slight confirmation bias when it comes to the results. 


+1
Alan Swank
General User
AS
Member Since: 12/12/2004
Location: Athens, OH
Post Count: 7,376
person
mail
Alan Swank
mail
Posted: 1/31/2011 11:45 AM
From The Post with this tidbit I missed the first time:

In fiscal year 2010, Athletics received about $12.7 million from the General Fee, or $765 per full-time student. Next year, that amount will increase to about $15 million, or 47.6 percent of the Gen- eral Fee.


http://www.thepost.ohiou.edu/main.asp?SectionID=2&Sub...

Also, Sara Brumfield wrote a similar article on the front page of the Messenger.  Regardless if you agree or disagree with her reporting, she is an outstanding writer.  Can't post a link because it's a subscription paper.

And of course the ANews:

http://www.athensnews.com/ohio/article-33109-survey-ou-students-blaseacute-about-athletics.html
Last Edited: 1/31/2011 5:24:40 PM by Alan Swank
Mike Coleman
Administrator
Member Since: 12/21/2004
Location: Near the Pristine Sandy Shores of Lake Erie, OH
Post Count: 1,999
mail
Mike Coleman
mail
Posted: 2/1/2011 8:14 PM
Am I correct in reading this story that 20,000 students were given the chance to object to the majority of the general fee being used for athletics spending, and less than 4% of those polled decided to object?

So, in other words, 96% of Ohio University students chose not to object to the general fee.

Talk about mass hysteria.
Showing Messages: 26 - 50 of 65
MAC News Links
Monday, May 11, 2026



extra small (< 576px)
small (>= 576px)
medium (>= 768px)
large (>= 992px)
x-large (>= 1200px)
xx-large (>= 1400px)