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Topic: NCAA Giving APR Teeth
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JSF
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Posted: 8/12/2011 10:09 AM
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http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.
anorris
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:45 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.
Going to have to lower the number of bowl games in operation...
KyleWvr13
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Posted: 8/12/2011 11:49 AM
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I probably missed it in the article, but when does this take into effect?
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 8/12/2011 1:39 PM
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Phased in over about 5 years, I think, but certainly long enough for the NFL and NBA to develop minor league systems to absorb the casualties if it truly comes to pass.
Jeff McKinney
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Posted: 8/12/2011 2:43 PM
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I'm fully confident that Ohio basketball would be able to comply with any of these rules changes in a timely fashion. 
Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/12/2011 3:12 PM
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What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school.  The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.
BattleCat
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Posted: 8/12/2011 3:40 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school. The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.
You would dissapointed as Athletic teams graduate at a higher rate than the general student body at just about every school in the Nation.
Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/12/2011 4:22 PM
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Prove it.  I don't think that is true.
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 8/12/2011 5:11 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Prove it.  I don't think that is true.


I wasn't sure, so I checked, and I think he's right.

Here's something from Ohio University on its graduation rates: http://www.ohio.edu/instres/student/univgradrates.html
Seems the graduation rate in the university as a whole is close to 70 percent.

This athletics article is from 2010, but I doubt it changes too much from year to year:
http://www.ohiobobcats.com/genrel/102710aaa.html
Athletes as a whole graduated at 83 percent. Even in football it was 71 percent.
BattleCat
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Posted: 8/12/2011 5:34 PM
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Alan Swank wrote:expand_more
Prove it. I don't think that is true.
I don't have to prove anything, I know I am correct on this, but here you go, and if you notice the difference is quite a gap in GSR which is a 6 year basis, does not account for transfers. Federal numbers are a little closer with athletes still outpacing the student body. However the Federal rates tract at 4 year periods, which leaves a lot of students out, both athlete and non-athlete.

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources...

Can someone please cue up the crow icon for this guy?
Last Edited: 8/12/2011 5:52:16 PM by BattleCat
cc-cat
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Posted: 8/13/2011 7:38 AM
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Makes sense.  Athletes have tutors available that non-athletes don't have access to, someone monitoring their grafes and attendance and having assigned study hours also helps tremendously.
Pataskala
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Posted: 8/13/2011 9:41 AM
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anorris wrote:expand_more
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/6853878/ncaa...

I should note the basketball program would not be eligible for the postseason.
Going to have to lower the number of bowl games in operation...


Naw.  They'll just allow 5-7 AQ teams into the mix so the rich conferences can get even richer.
Last Edited: 8/13/2011 9:43:09 AM by Pataskala
Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/13/2011 2:51 PM
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BattleCat wrote:expand_more
Prove it. I don't think that is true.


I don't have to prove anything, I know I am correct on this, 

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/Resources...

Can someone please cue up the crow icon for this guy?


Wow!  If I didn't know better, I'd say that Wannamaker has returned.  Anyway, here's what i did.  I went to the link that you provided and looked up the rates for the top 10 football teams in last year's final ratings.  Here's what the 2009 - 2010 numbers say:

School               All Students     Athletes

Auburn              67%                   57%
TCU                   74                       73
Oregon              70                       74
Stanford            95                       89
Ohio State        75                       72
Oklahoma        64                       48
Wisconsin        81                       67
LSU                  59                        50
Boise State      26                       54
Alabama          66                       64

So, if I read this right, 8 out of 10 in the AP top 10 fall below the general student graduation rate at their respective school.  No crow here but it is time to start the seafood boil.


BattleCat
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Posted: 8/13/2011 3:12 PM
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Whoa, sunshine! You pick 10 schools and as always you want to pick on Football. My comment and my post was Athletes, not top 10 football teams! Try and back pedal and change your tune that is fine, but I stand by my statement that NCAA Athletes graduate at a higher rate than their peers. You said "Prove it!", I did, now you want to "break things out", just admit it, you were wrong as usual.
Last Edited: 8/13/2011 3:20:26 PM by BattleCat
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 8/13/2011 3:26 PM
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Boise State 26% of all sutdents--really?

How do they define 'graduation rate' here?
Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/13/2011 4:08 PM
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BattleCat wrote:expand_more
Whoa, sunshine! You pick 10 schools and as always you want to pick on Football. My comment and my post was Athletes, not top 10 football teams! Try and back pedal and change your tune that is fine, but I stand by my statement that NCAA Athletes graduate at a higher rate than their peers. You said "Prove it!", I did, now you want to "break things out", just admit it, you were wrong as usual.


You didn't prove jack.  You gave us a link to a site where I pulled data on the top 10 schools in the AP football ratings.  Those were not football numbers.  Those were numbers for all the athletes at those schools.  But, to give you a bit of balance, here are the numbers for the top 10 basketball schools -  not basketball team numbers but the schools that those teams represent.

School               All students     All athletes

UConn               78%                 60%
Butler                 76                     76
Kentucky           60                     67
Kansas              61                     64
Ohio State         75                     72
VCU                   50                     56
Duke                  95                     86
UNC                   85                     74
Arizona              58                     58
Florida               82                     57

So, in this case 5 out of 10 schools graduate regular students at a higher rate than athletes.  Not sure how you proved anything other than making your typical I've been there, I've eaten there, I heard that person talk, etc., etc, etc.




BattleCat
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Posted: 8/13/2011 4:16 PM
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Can you freaking read? The article spells it out for you! Student Athletes graduate at a higher rate than their student peers, I never said football, I never said basketball, I said Student Athletes. Why don't you offer proof, (not a top 10 list). All you want to do is pick on a couple of schools, my original post was athletes at the NCAA DI level which is across the country, I can offer nothing better than that article that offers statistical data from the Federal Government and the NCAA. You want to pick top 10 this top 10 that, I am and was referring to college athletes, not the top 10 of anything!


"Using the federal government’s methodology, which does not count transfer students and is less accurate than the GSR, Division I student-athletes who entered college in 2003 graduated at 64 percent, still the highest federal rate ever and one point higher than the general student body. ". NCAA.org

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/cebd2a8044780448987db...
Last Edited: 8/13/2011 4:56:01 PM by BattleCat
BattleCat
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Posted: 8/13/2011 4:32 PM
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Check th above link Mr. swank then give your arguement that disputes BOTH the Federal Government and the NCAA.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 8/13/2011 4:36 PM
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Alan, I think what you're failing to recognize is what happens to those averages when the Volleyball teams are averaged in!  
Alan Swank
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Posted: 8/13/2011 5:01 PM
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What I'd like to see is a number that varies by school.  The number would be the graduation rate of the general population of the respective school.

BC, this was my original post on this subject and I still believe that to be true.  It would be interesting to go through the list of all D1 schools and see how many "schools" graduate athletes at a higher rate than the student body.  I picked the top 10 basketball schools and football schools last year to get a feel for how things would shake out.
BattleCat
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Posted: 8/13/2011 5:09 PM
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And my post was you'd be disappointed because athletes nationwide graduate at a higher rate. As for your top 10 list, I am sure the best of the money sports will have lower S-A% as some of those guys are admittedly not there for school, and using the "Top 10" would not be representative of the population as a whole. If you would read the article I posted you would see the NCAA GSR, which (IMO) is way better than the Federal data which count transfers as a zero for the school they leave and never count if they graduate from another school. So a guy like Dan Aloi who has a PH.D counted as a "non-graduate" in the federal statistics, so to did guys like Stonerook, Ryan Hawk, and the list could go on. So if you accept GSR statistics the S-A far out paces the normal student.

And complete list of the data you are looking for is readily available for your review.
Last Edited: 8/13/2011 5:22:44 PM by BattleCat
JSF
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Posted: 8/14/2011 5:01 AM
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Jeff McKinney wrote:expand_more
I'm fully confident that Ohio basketball would be able to comply with any of these rules changes in a timely fashion. 


Because they'd have to.
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