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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Top 25 recruiting classes of the G5
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TWT
2/18/2023 4:03 PM
From 24/7 I compiled a list of the Top 25 recruiting classes from the G5. The list is by ponts and then by (overall rank). I ommitted programs heading to a P5; Big 12 (UC, Houston, UCF) and likely PAC 12 (SMU, SDSU) as they don't count moving forward.

1)Texas-San Antonio 185.20 (70)
2)Memphis 184.31 (71)
3)Boise State 178.19 (73)
4)Colorado State 176.09 (76)
5)Tulane 172.87 (75)
6)East Carolina 168.51 (81)
7)Arkansas State 167.46 (82)
8)South Florida 165.19 (84)
9)Fresno State 165.03 (78)
10)Louisana Tech 162.69 (74)
11)Temple 162.09 (80)
12)Appalachian State 161.99 (85)
13)Florida Atlantic 161.44 (86)
14)Rice 159.14 (87)
15)Eastern Michigan 158.70 (88)
16)Buffalo 156.87 (77)
17)South Alabama 154.95 (79)
18)Central Michigan 154.81 (89)
19)Louisana 151.11 (90)
20)Southern Miss 150.00 (91)
21)Florida International 145.48 (86)
22)U.Alabama-Birmingham 144.26 (95)
23)Sam Houston State 141.34 (96)
24)Ohio 140.79 (97)
25)North Texas 137.98 (99)

-Southern schools dominate the G5 list but will that continue in the NIL era with all the money the Big Ten has I can see them going into the south more in recruiting.

-Buffalo has the 16th rated class by points but by overall rank have the 7th rated recruiting class. Buffalo just announced a new 12,000 square ft. sport performance center which is for the most part a double decker weight room. Proof that facilities could make a difference.

https://www.buffalo.edu/ubnow/stories/2022/12/sports-perf...

-Ohio at #24 is rated only two spots below UAB at #22 who has a new 47,000 seat stadium and is moving into the AAC. Stadium size may not be everything but #1 UTSA plays in a 64,000 seat stadium and #2 Memphis in a 58,000 stadium. Tulane however is only 30,000 seats but its a new stadium.

-EMU is #15 and CMU is #18 but Ohio #24 is the highest MAC rated school in-state. It could be the MAC level recruits in Ohio weren't as highly rated this past year. What can Ohio do to get a Top 10 or Top 12 recruiting class or is that even possible given the region? Buffalo though was #7 overall and they have terrible weather working against them.
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L.C.
2/19/2023 10:53 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
...
-EMU is #15 and CMU is #18 but Ohio #24 is the highest MAC rated school in-state. It could be the MAC level recruits in Ohio weren't as highly rated this past year. What can Ohio do to get a Top 10 or Top 12 recruiting class or is that even possible given the region? Buffalo though was #7 overall and they have terrible weather working against them.

What can Nebraska do to get a #1 ranking class in the B1G? While I can't persuade my Nebraska fan friends, the answer is "probably nothing". What states in the B1G territory have the most/best P5 level recruits? Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Why do OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically have the highest rated recruiting classes in the B1G year in, year out? Why are OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically found near the top of the B1G standings every year, while Nebraska is not?[/sar] Obviously, it's bad Nebraska coaches. A new, more expensive coach, should fix the problem.[/end sarc]

Let's see, what areas of Ohio have the most D1 level recruits? NW, SW, NE, and Central. What area has the least, by far? SE. What can Ohio do to land the best recruiting class in the MAC? Probably, nothing. I hate to break this to you, but Ohio is at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to the rest of the MAC, all of whom are either located in another state with less G5 teams recruiting against them, or in an area of Ohio with more D1 recruits.

What should Ohio do then? [/sarc on] Obviously the answer is to keep paying more for new coaches until they get one that repeatedly lands the best class and wins the MACC. [/end sarc]. Or, maybe they should just find a coach that presents a good image for the school, who gets along with people in the community, and who is a good coach who runs a consistently competitive program, and give him job security, support, and a competitive salary, and hope he enjoys Athens and stays awhile.
Last Edited: 2/19/2023 10:56:04 AM by L.C.
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TWT
2/19/2023 3:05 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...
-EMU is #15 and CMU is #18 but Ohio #24 is the highest MAC rated school in-state. It could be the MAC level recruits in Ohio weren't as highly rated this past year. What can Ohio do to get a Top 10 or Top 12 recruiting class or is that even possible given the region? Buffalo though was #7 overall and they have terrible weather working against them.

What can Nebraska do to get a #1 ranking class in the B1G? While I can't persuade my Nebraska fan friends, the answer is "probably nothing". What states in the B1G territory have the most/best P5 level recruits? Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Why do OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically have the highest rated recruiting classes in the B1G year in, year out? Why are OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically found near the top of the B1G standings every year, while Nebraska is not?[/sar] Obviously, it's bad Nebraska coaches. A new, more expensive coach, should fix the problem.[/end sarc]

Let's see, what areas of Ohio have the most D1 level recruits? NW, SW, NE, and Central. What area has the least, by far? SE. What can Ohio do to land the best recruiting class in the MAC? Probably, nothing. I hate to break this to you, but Ohio is at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to the rest of the MAC, all of whom are either located in another state with less G5 teams recruiting against them, or in an area of Ohio with more D1 recruits.

What should Ohio do then? [/sarc on] Obviously the answer is to keep paying more for new coaches until they get one that repeatedly lands the best class and wins the MACC. [/end sarc]. Or, maybe they should just find a coach that presents a good image for the school, who gets along with people in the community, and who is a good coach who runs a consistently competitive program, and give him job security, support, and a competitive salary, and hope he enjoys Athens and stays awhile.
Don't you think it will help Nebraska recruit with NIL and the big TV money in the Big Ten? They should pull more players in from Texas that are ending up at Baylor or Houston over time I believe. Its a talent food chain from the bigger conferences to the smaller ones. None of the future G5 had a class rated above 70th.

Definitely the state you are in is factor. Penn State may be in the middle of nowhere but its in a state of 12.8 million people. Ohio has 11.7 million and only one Big Ten team which allows it to support multiple G5s.

The top football recruiting areas are around Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Ohio is the closest MAC school to Columbus and second closest to Cincinnati and Dayton. NE Ohio has faded as a recruiting hotbed since the 70s. NW Ohio has few Divison 1 schools and is not the big talent generator. One advantage Toledo and BG have is they are much closer to Detroit and Chicago for recruiting than what Ohio is.

Also Ohio had the highest rated recruiting class of any of the MAC schools this past year so the SEO argument isn't panning. Its like saying Virginia Tech is a SW Virgina school or Arkansas is limited to NW Arkansas and can't recruit Little Rock. In-state is a very big factor whether you are located in the corner of the state or not.

Louisiana looks like a good analogy to the recruiting pattern of Ohio and Michigan. LSU has to pull in from Texas and Florida to get 4 stars so it leaves 3 stars in-state talent for the Tulane's and Louisiana Tech's.

Big Ten/SEC takes more Big 12 players.
Big 12 takes more AAC/MWC players.
MAC is then left with more Midwest players.

Over time all these new G5 schools in the south are going to weigh those conferences down into a low major setup as which exists in D1 basketball. MAC will become more top heavy like it is in basketball with the same 4-5 at the top every year.
Last Edited: 2/19/2023 3:08:01 PM by TWT
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BryanHall
2/19/2023 3:20 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
...
-EMU is #15 and CMU is #18 but Ohio #24 is the highest MAC rated school in-state. It could be the MAC level recruits in Ohio weren't as highly rated this past year. What can Ohio do to get a Top 10 or Top 12 recruiting class or is that even possible given the region? Buffalo though was #7 overall and they have terrible weather working against them.

What can Nebraska do to get a #1 ranking class in the B1G? While I can't persuade my Nebraska fan friends, the answer is "probably nothing". What states in the B1G territory have the most/best P5 level recruits? Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Why do OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically have the highest rated recruiting classes in the B1G year in, year out? Why are OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically found near the top of the B1G standings every year, while Nebraska is not?[/sar] Obviously, it's bad Nebraska coaches. A new, more expensive coach, should fix the problem.[/end sarc]

Let's see, what areas of Ohio have the most D1 level recruits? NW, SW, NE, and Central. What area has the least, by far? SE. What can Ohio do to land the best recruiting class in the MAC? Probably, nothing. I hate to break this to you, but Ohio is at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to the rest of the MAC, all of whom are either located in another state with less G5 teams recruiting against them, or in an area of Ohio with more D1 recruits.

What should Ohio do then? [/sarc on] Obviously the answer is to keep paying more for new coaches until they get one that repeatedly lands the best class and wins the MACC. [/end sarc]. Or, maybe they should just find a coach that presents a good image for the school, who gets along with people in the community, and who is a good coach who runs a consistently competitive program, and give him job security, support, and a competitive salary, and hope he enjoys Athens and stays awhile.
Don't you think it will help Nebraska recruit with NIL and the big TV money in the Big Ten? They should pull more players in from Texas that are ending up at Baylor or Houston over time I believe. Its a talent food chain from the bigger conferences to the smaller ones. None of the future G5 had a class rated above 70th.

Definitely the state you are in is factor. Penn State may be in the middle of nowhere but its in a state of 12.8 million people. Ohio has 11.7 million and only one Big Ten team which allows it to support multiple G5s.

The top football recruiting areas are around Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Ohio is the closest MAC school to Columbus and second closest to Cincinnati and Dayton. NE Ohio has faded as a recruiting hotbed since the 70s. NW Ohio has few Divison 1 schools and is not the big talent generator. One advantage Toledo and BG have is they are much closer to Detroit and Chicago for recruiting than what Ohio is.

Also Ohio had the highest rated recruiting class of any of the MAC schools this past year so the SEO argument isn't panning. Its like saying Virginia Tech is a SW Virgina school or Arkansas is limited to NW Arkansas and can't recruit Little Rock. In-state is a very big factor whether you are located in the corner of the state or not.

Louisiana looks like a good analogy to the recruiting pattern of Ohio and Michigan. LSU has to pull in from Texas and Florida to get 4 stars so it leaves 3 stars in-state talent for the Tulane's and Louisiana Tech's.

Big Ten/SEC takes more Big 12 players.
Big 12 takes more AAC/MWC players.
MAC is then left with more Midwest players.

Over time all these new G5 schools in the south are going to weigh those conferences down into a low major setup as which exists in D1 basketball. MAC will become more top heavy like it is in basketball with the same 4-5 at the top every year.
I agree. For the reasons you mention tend to think that Buffalo has a huge advantage in the conference being the only public D-1 Football school in New York (I exclude West Point from the consideration).
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TWT
2/19/2023 3:36 PM
BryanHall wrote:expand_more
...
-EMU is #15 and CMU is #18 but Ohio #24 is the highest MAC rated school in-state. It could be the MAC level recruits in Ohio weren't as highly rated this past year. What can Ohio do to get a Top 10 or Top 12 recruiting class or is that even possible given the region? Buffalo though was #7 overall and they have terrible weather working against them.

What can Nebraska do to get a #1 ranking class in the B1G? While I can't persuade my Nebraska fan friends, the answer is "probably nothing". What states in the B1G territory have the most/best P5 level recruits? Ohio, Michigan, and Pennsylvania. Why do OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically have the highest rated recruiting classes in the B1G year in, year out? Why are OSU, Michigan, and Penn State typically found near the top of the B1G standings every year, while Nebraska is not?[/sar] Obviously, it's bad Nebraska coaches. A new, more expensive coach, should fix the problem.[/end sarc]

Let's see, what areas of Ohio have the most D1 level recruits? NW, SW, NE, and Central. What area has the least, by far? SE. What can Ohio do to land the best recruiting class in the MAC? Probably, nothing. I hate to break this to you, but Ohio is at a distinct recruiting disadvantage to the rest of the MAC, all of whom are either located in another state with less G5 teams recruiting against them, or in an area of Ohio with more D1 recruits.

What should Ohio do then? [/sarc on] Obviously the answer is to keep paying more for new coaches until they get one that repeatedly lands the best class and wins the MACC. [/end sarc]. Or, maybe they should just find a coach that presents a good image for the school, who gets along with people in the community, and who is a good coach who runs a consistently competitive program, and give him job security, support, and a competitive salary, and hope he enjoys Athens and stays awhile.
Don't you think it will help Nebraska recruit with NIL and the big TV money in the Big Ten? They should pull more players in from Texas that are ending up at Baylor or Houston over time I believe. Its a talent food chain from the bigger conferences to the smaller ones. None of the future G5 had a class rated above 70th.

Definitely the state you are in is factor. Penn State may be in the middle of nowhere but its in a state of 12.8 million people. Ohio has 11.7 million and only one Big Ten team which allows it to support multiple G5s.

The top football recruiting areas are around Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati. Ohio is the closest MAC school to Columbus and second closest to Cincinnati and Dayton. NE Ohio has faded as a recruiting hotbed since the 70s. NW Ohio has few Divison 1 schools and is not the big talent generator. One advantage Toledo and BG have is they are much closer to Detroit and Chicago for recruiting than what Ohio is.

Also Ohio had the highest rated recruiting class of any of the MAC schools this past year so the SEO argument isn't panning. Its like saying Virginia Tech is a SW Virgina school or Arkansas is limited to NW Arkansas and can't recruit Little Rock. In-state is a very big factor whether you are located in the corner of the state or not.

Louisiana looks like a good analogy to the recruiting pattern of Ohio and Michigan. LSU has to pull in from Texas and Florida to get 4 stars so it leaves 3 stars in-state talent for the Tulane's and Louisiana Tech's.

Big Ten/SEC takes more Big 12 players.
Big 12 takes more AAC/MWC players.
MAC is then left with more Midwest players.

Over time all these new G5 schools in the south are going to weigh those conferences down into a low major setup as which exists in D1 basketball. MAC will become more top heavy like it is in basketball with the same 4-5 at the top every year.
I agree. For the reasons you mention tend to think that Buffalo has a huge advantage in the conference being the only public D-1 Football school in New York (I exclude West Point from the consideration).
No doubt something like that helps.

Ohio has never been a 1 hour and out type of college. Before the MAC it played private schools across the state and has been able to deliver recruits state wide since before the time of Don Peden. Being in a quadrant of the state with less talent has never been a real factor.
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L.C.
2/20/2023 9:45 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
Don't you think it will help Nebraska recruit with NIL and the big TV money in the Big Ten? They should pull more players in from Texas that are ending up at Baylor or Houston over time I believe. Its a talent food chain from the bigger conferences to the smaller ones. None of the future G5 had a class rated above 70th.
...

Let's see. What does GDP by state look like in the B1G area? GDP should give an indication of the ability of an area to fund sports (if it chooses to). Here is the GDP for Q3, 2022:
California 3,634,821 (2 B1G teams)
Illinois 1,041,663 (2 B1G Teams)
Pennsylvania 937,717
Ohio 829,594
NJ 753,042
Michigan 626,680
Maryland 474,424
Indiana 458,796 (2 B1G teams)
Minnesota 450,743
Wisconsin 404,704
Iowa 233,468
Nebraska 163,886

What about the base of alumni? They tend to be contributors for NIL. Here is the enrollment, by school in the B1G:

OSU 61,369
Illinois 52,331
Minnesota 52,017
Rutgers 50,411
Michigan 49,695
USC 49,500
Wisconsin 47,935
Michigan 47,907
PSU 45,901
UCLA 45,900
Purdue 45,869
Indiana 42,552
Maryland 40,709
Iowa 30,448
Nebraska 25,057
Northwestern 22,316

Nebraska should have considerably less money to spend on sports than anyone else in the conference. The one thing they do have going for them is that the football team faces no competition from professional sports, so the money they do have is all focused in one place. Even then, though, I would expect the NIL system to bias the conference more in favor of schools with larger alumni bases, and in states with larger GDP. Thus, I expect it to heavily favor OSU, Michigan, Penn State, and quite possibly Illinois.
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L.C.
2/20/2023 9:51 AM
BryanHall wrote:expand_more
... For the reasons you mention tend to think that Buffalo has a huge advantage in the conference being the only public D-1 Football school in New York (I exclude West Point from the consideration). [/QUOTE]
Syracuse also has D-1 football, but yes, Buffalo should be able to recruit well in a very big state. Unfortunately for them, high school football in NY is not nearly on the level of states like Ohio and Texas.

[QUOTE=Campus Flow]... Being in a quadrant of the state with less talent has never been a real factor.

Or has it? Maybe it has something to so with not winning a MACC since 1968? Maybe there is a reason why NIU, WMU, Toledo, and Miami have been historically more successful? They not only are in areas with far more recruits than SE Ohio, they are also closer to states with no G5 football at all, such at Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.
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TWT
2/20/2023 11:49 AM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
... Being in a quadrant of the state with less talent has never been a real factor.

Or has it? Maybe it has something to so with not winning a MACC since 1968? Maybe there is a reason why NIU, WMU, Toledo, and Miami have been historically more successful? They not only are in areas with far more recruits than SE Ohio, they are also closer to states with no G5 football at all, such at Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.
Ohio is the only MAC program with three 100+ game winners in its history. The fall off after 68' was gradual and had to do with some of the financial problems in the 70's which led to not investing in athletics for a couple of decades under Ping (1975-1995). Ping had some different plans to move the program to FCS and Ohio still played at Marshall in the 80's while they were a FCS team. Program had no facilities (no weight room, no football ops, no IPF) at that time.

It was a combination of problems with leadership, money and visibility of the MAC from 75' to 95'. Ohio though has always competed with in-state competition in conferences and a known entity in state. The state really isn't that large. You can travel from OU to BG within 3 hours. Its not the same as being located in a far corner of Texas. The biggest thing Frank would say on the recruiting trail is Ohio has a lot of schools that play football including the lower level ones and it offers up a lot of recruiting competition.

85% of the students at Ohio are from outside of an hour of campus. It serves the entire state and its competition is across the state. Though I wouldn't consider Toledo and BG direct competition but some of the private schools around there like Ohio Northern historically were.

This is Ohio's conference membership in 1910.

Case Institute of Technology
Cincinnati
College of Wooster
Denison
Heidelberg College
Kenyon College
Oberlin College
Ohio
Ohio State
Ohio Wesleyan
Western Reserve

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_Athletic_Conference

Ohio was a peer of those private schools and the same size prior to WWII. It was always in a conference with a NE Ohio and a SW Ohio presence.

In 1926 Ohio joined in the Buckeye Athletic Conference.

Cincnnati
Denison
Miami Oh
Ohio
Ohio Wesleyan
Wittenburg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckeye_Athletic_Association

Very early in its history Ohio played Parkersburg YMCA but since 1910 was always connected to the more prominent instutions across the state. Quadrant isolationinsm wasn't a factor. Friends of my family from NYC were going to OU back in the 1930's. I can remember a time when there wasn't a lot of SEO locals in Peden but that changed greatly with Frank. Historically though Athens was another college town among many in Ohio.
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 11:49:40 AM by TWT
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Deciduous Forest Cat
2/20/2023 12:09 PM
There are some other factors contributing to Ohio's lack of a MAC title.

I would venture to say Ohio was the best team in the MAC in:

2011 (gacked away MAC title game)
2012... maybe but such severe rash of injuries they never had a chance
2017 Gacked it away versus Akron reg season
2018 - gacked it away versus Miami reg season
2019 maybe? Gacked it away versus Miami reg season
2022 - Rourke injury

Argument could be made for 2000 but I think WMU was the best team that year.

At the least, we've been one of the top 2 teams 4 and maybe 6 times in the last 12 seasons. Are we really not getting comparable talent but just have such amazing coaches or are the recruiting services just guess-machines at the mid-major level?

It's absolutely crazy that we haven't won the goddamn MAC in that time.
Last Edited: 2/20/2023 2:02:45 PM by Deciduous Forest Cat
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TWT
2/21/2023 10:21 PM
Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
There are some other factors contributing to Ohio's lack of a MAC title.

I would venture to say Ohio was the best team in the MAC in:

2011 (gacked away MAC title game)
2012... maybe but such severe rash of injuries they never had a chance
2017 Gacked it away versus Akron reg season
2018 - gacked it away versus Miami reg season
2019 maybe? Gacked it away versus Miami reg season
2022 - Rourke injury

Argument could be made for 2000 but I think WMU was the best team that year.

At the least, we've been one of the top 2 teams 4 and maybe 6 times in the last 12 seasons. Are we really not getting comparable talent but just have such amazing coaches or are the recruiting services just guess-machines at the mid-major level?

It's absolutely crazy that we haven't won the goddamn MAC in that time.
It is crazy and I could see if we've had only 1 bowl over the past 14 to view TA's season as a modern day miracle. But the program has gone to 12 bowls in the past 14 years and won 6. TA won the bowl in OT and scored 7 points in the MACC with the MAC POTY and FOTY so I don't think that is a miracle.

PJ Fleck was able to recruit a Cotton Bowl team at WMU all by himself so to act as if its not possible to recruit your way to success is a wrong way to view it.

WMU's classes under Fleck.

2013 106.64 (Toledo #1 141.96)
2014 153.42
2015 147.78 (Miami #1 150.48)
2016 160.72 (Cotton Bowl)

Compare this to Tulane's Cotton Bowl run up.

2019 144.82
2020 165.84
2021 160.36
2022 160.73 (Cotton Bowl)
2023 172.87

They beat the #1 team by 1 point. WMU lost to the #12 team by 8.

With the right matchup and a few breaks Ohio could take out a Top 10 team. Recruiting hasn't quite supported that.

App State had won against #6 Texas A&M this season.

2019 139.00
2020 154.59
2021 165.83
2022 144.67 (Texas A&M victory)
2023 161.99

Recruiting average for 2019-2022 was 151.03. Three MAC schools recruited better for 2023 so its entirely possible.
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L.C.
2/21/2023 11:59 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
...
It is crazy and I could see if we've had only 1 bowl over the past 14 to view TA's season as a modern day miracle. But the program has gone to 12 bowls in the past 14 years and won 6. TA won the bowl in OT and scored 7 points in the MACC with the MAC POTY and FOTY so I don't think that is a miracle.
151.03. Three MAC schools recruited better for 2023 so its entirely possible. ...

No one has called the season a modern day miracle. Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
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TWT
2/22/2023 8:07 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
...
It is crazy and I could see if we've had only 1 bowl over the past 14 to view TA's season as a modern day miracle. But the program has gone to 12 bowls in the past 14 years and won 6. TA won the bowl in OT and scored 7 points in the MACC with the MAC POTY and FOTY so I don't think that is a miracle.
151.03. Three MAC schools recruited better for 2023 so its entirely possible. ...

No one has called the season a modern day miracle. Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
Was the team in 2022 at the end any better than the one in 2019 that was 7-6? My estimation not really judging by the close bowl win and 7 points scored in the MACC. Iowa State and Penn State were bad blowouts in the non-conference season.

It was good to have more consistency in MAC play than ever before but quality wise it wasn't better than the 2015-19 Bobcat teams. Some of the posters wanting the extension probably weren't aware the 2015-19 teams were any good. Of course in 2020 Ohio went 2-1 on a shortened season, absolutely clowned BG up almost 50 in the first half.

TA won 11 or 12 games or the MACC than its entirely different argument. That is definitively better than any of the Solich seasons. Frank also won 10 games in Athens.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
2/23/2023 3:18 PM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
...
It is crazy and I could see if we've had only 1 bowl over the past 14 to view TA's season as a modern day miracle. But the program has gone to 12 bowls in the past 14 years and won 6. TA won the bowl in OT and scored 7 points in the MACC with the MAC POTY and FOTY so I don't think that is a miracle.
151.03. Three MAC schools recruited better for 2023 so its entirely possible. ...

No one has called the season a modern day miracle. Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
Was the team in 2022 at the end any better than the one in 2019 that was 7-6? My estimation not really judging by the close bowl win and 7 points scored in the MACC. Iowa State and Penn State were bad blowouts in the non-conference season.
If Rourke doesn't hurt his knee, yes 22 team was better than 19 team at end of season. No doubt.

Do I think we beat PSU or ISU later in the season? no, but I think we show better without a doubt. and Fordham doesn't put 50 on us either.
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L.C.
2/23/2023 8:36 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
... Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
... Frank also won 10 games in Athens.
[/QUOTE]
Since you elected to evade rather than answer my questions, I will provide the answers.
1. Ohio has has precisely one 10 win season since 1968 that being in 2011. In fairness, they used to play less games, however. In 1997, Grobe was 8-3, which is a slightly higher win percentage than 10-4.
2. Since 1968, Ohio has been alone at the top of the MAC in regular season record precisely one time, in 2022. They did tie for the best regular season record in 2006 at 7-1.

[QUOTE=Deciduous Forest Cat]If Rourke doesn't hurt his knee, yes 22 team was better than 19 team at end of season. No doubt.

Do I think we beat PSU or ISU later in the season? no, but I think we show better without a doubt. and Fordham doesn't put 50 on us either.

Exactly. It took the team half a season to get used to the new defense, but once they did, it was a very solid defense.
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TWT
2/23/2023 8:57 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
... Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
... Frank also won 10 games in Athens.

Since you elected to evade rather than answer my questions, I will provide the answers.
1. Ohio has has precisely one 10 win season since 1968 that being in 2011. In fairness, they used to play less games, however. In 1997, Grobe was 8-3, which is a slightly higher win percentage than 10-4.
2. Since 1968, Ohio has been alone at the top of the MAC in regular season record precisely one time, in 2022. They did tie for the best regular season record in 2006 at 7-1.

If Rourke doesn't hurt his knee, yes 22 team was better than 19 team at end of season. No doubt.

Do I think we beat PSU or ISU later in the season? no, but I think we show better without a doubt. and Fordham doesn't put 50 on us either.

Exactly. It took the team half a season to get used to the new defense, but once they did, it was a very solid defense.
There are wins and then there are levels.

Despite the 10 wins 2022 was on the same level as 2015-2019. Team was lucky WMU and NIU had off years. Miami is a joke and BG is terrible. Buffalo is a paper Bull.
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OhioCatFan
2/24/2023 10:53 AM
Campus Flow wrote:expand_more
... Nevertheless, how many 10 win seasons has Ohio had in the last 50 years? How many times has Ohio had a better regular season record in MAC play than any other school in the MAC in the last 50 years?
... Frank also won 10 games in Athens.

Since you elected to evade rather than answer my questions, I will provide the answers.
1. Ohio has has precisely one 10 win season since 1968 that being in 2011. In fairness, they used to play less games, however. In 1997, Grobe was 8-3, which is a slightly higher win percentage than 10-4.
2. Since 1968, Ohio has been alone at the top of the MAC in regular season record precisely one time, in 2022. They did tie for the best regular season record in 2006 at 7-1.

If Rourke doesn't hurt his knee, yes 22 team was better than 19 team at end of season. No doubt.

Do I think we beat PSU or ISU later in the season? no, but I think we show better without a doubt. and Fordham doesn't put 50 on us either.

Exactly. It took the team half a season to get used to the new defense, but once they did, it was a very solid defense.
There are wins and then there are levels.

Despite the 10 wins 2022 was on the same level as 2015-2019. Team was lucky WMU and NIU had off years. Miami is a joke and BG is terrible. Buffalo is a paper Bull.
Ohio > Buffalo > Georgia Southern > Nebraska
2022 Bobcats should have played in the B1G
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L.C.
2/24/2023 11:39 AM
Ah, yes. The ever reliable "If Ohio had the best record in the MAC, the MAC must have sucked" argument. Cognitive dissonance theory assures me that you have no difficulty reconciling it with the fact that the MAC did not get blown out during bowl season, and in fact won the bowl cup challenge with a 4-2 record, where even in the two losses the MAC team was competitive, with Miami and BG losing by 4 and 5 respectively.

The part of the season where I agree with you was the first five games. Ohio was not a good team defensively for the first five games, and therefore they were not a great team. I totally agree with DFC, however. Once the defense came around, that, in combination with the potent offense made Ohio a very, very good team. Ohio was totally dominant on the stretch from Akron to Ball State, until Rourke was injured.

Akron - Ohio blew them out by 21. Miami was the only other MAC team to beat them by more than 7.

WMU - Again Ohio blew them out by 21. EMU was the only other MAC team to beat them by more than 4.

NIU - The only non-dominant win in this stretch, Ohio won by 7.

Buffalo - Yet another win by 21. No one else in the MAC beat them by more than 4.

Miami - A win by 16 over the defending champions, no one else in the MAC beat them by more than 4.

Ball State - A win by 14 over Ball State, and that was with Rourke out for part of the game. No one else in the MAC beat them by more than 7.

In my opinion, the 2022 team from Akron to Ball State was the 2d best Ohio team I have seen, second only to the 2012 team at the very start of the year. In my opinion, the MAC was not "weak", but rather, was "balanced". It had no bad teams. There were very, very few games that could not have gone either way.
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2/24/2023 5:01 PM
L.C. wrote:expand_more
Ah, yes. The ever reliable "If Ohio had the best record in the MAC, the MAC must have sucked" argument. Cognitive dissonance theory assures me that you have no difficulty reconciling it with the fact that the MAC did not get blown out during bowl season, and in fact won the bowl cup challenge with a 4-2 record, where even in the two losses the MAC team was competitive, with Miami and BG losing by 4 and 5 respectively.

The part of the season where I agree with you was the first five games. Ohio was not a good team defensively for the first five games, and therefore they were not a great team. I totally agree with DFC, however. Once the defense came around, that, in combination with the potent offense made Ohio a very, very good team. Ohio was totally dominant on the stretch from Akron to Ball State, until Rourke was injured.

Akron - Ohio blew them out by 21. Miami was the only other MAC team to beat them by more than 7.

WMU - Again Ohio blew them out by 21. EMU was the only other MAC team to beat them by more than 4.

NIU - The only non-dominant win in this stretch, Ohio won by 7.

Buffalo - Yet another win by 21. No one else in the MAC beat them by more than 4.

Miami - A win by 16 over the defending champions, no one else in the MAC beat them by more than 4.

Ball State - A win by 14 over Ball State, and that was with Rourke out for part of the game. No one else in the MAC beat them by more than 7.

In my opinion, the 2022 team from Akron to Ball State was the 2d best Ohio team I have seen, second only to the 2012 team at the very start of the year. In my opinion, the MAC was not "weak", but rather, was "balanced". It had no bad teams. There were very, very few games that could not have gone either way.
It wasn't a knock on the MAC. BG/Miami didn't win their bowl games and that is a fact though produced valiant efforts. Miami's program IMO is a joke. They were defending MAC Champions but they never are impressive.

When I compare the offensive PPG of the Ohio teams in the recent era the 2022 team doesn't stand out.

Scoring
2017 37.4 ppg
2018 40.3 ppg
2019 33.8 ppg
2022 29.7 ppg

Bowls
2017 Ohio 41 UAB 6
2018 Ohio 27 SDSU 0
2019 Ohio 30 Nevada 21
2022 Ohio 30 Wyoming 27

2022 appears in-line with the other seasons but not a standard deviation better in performance. I start with the data and focus on that over momentary sentiment.
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