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Topic: Time to give the 3-4 another chance?
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Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 11/18/2011 3:33 PM
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Since Frank Solich arrived on campus, one item that he scrapped that I actually liked from the previous regimes was the 3-4. I liked how we could rely on athleticism and deception in our pass rush because it was hard to recruit four total studs to a D-line, but you could recruit great athletes and have extra linebackers. We do seem to manage a sack or two in a given game, but if there's one thing we lack, it seems to be a consistent, strong pass rush, and maybe the 3-4 would give us more chances... a chance to show more given looks to the same opponent. more stunts, greater variation in our blitzes and what direction they'll be coming from.

ah... the olden days... now get the hell off my lawn!
Paul Graham
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Posted: 11/18/2011 4:11 PM
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I totally agree. If you look at the Bobcat record books, many of our sack records are held by Grobe-era outside linebackers and a few lineman (most notably Mario Daniel). Those guys could get to the quarterback and definitely kept defenses on their toes.

Only thing, we just recruited a TON of new d-lineman.
Casper71
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Posted: 11/18/2011 4:33 PM
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With so many throwing teams nowdays (especially in the MAC) the 3-4 seems to make some sense.  Gives you another pass defender AND the ability to have varying rush packages.  I totally agree that using our "standard" 4-3 we just don't get enough pressure on the QB and we often end up with Safeties on WR (like vs BG on their TD where Kristoff, although picked, was 1v1) which is exactly what the Offense is looking for...Mismatches!

I might ad, vs. Temple we had that mis match all night long with their LB going up against Harden.  That was a no win for them.  It is ALL about the match ups.
C Money
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Posted: 11/18/2011 4:48 PM
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I've been wondering this too, watching our last 2 games against airborne attacks. I'm generally not a fan of the 3-4, because I don't like to concede the line of scrimmage, and 5 (or 6 or 7) offensive guys blocking 3 defensive down lineman just doesn't make sense if you want the defense to win the line of scrimmage. But it does seem like (A) we have a major problem getting pressure on the QB, and (B) what little success we've had in getting pressure has come when we've thrown strange DL configurations at the OL.

So I don't know if I'm ready to go all-in on the 3-4, but I do think we'd benefit from switching up from time to time, given the situation. It might help cause some more turnovers as well (for example, I think we were in an odd defensive formation on Schilz's pick at the end of the first half).
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/19/2011 9:27 AM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
I've been wondering this too, watching our last 2 games against airborne attacks. I'm generally not a fan of the 3-4, because I don't like to concede the line of scrimmage, and 5 (or 6 or 7) offensive guys blocking 3 defensive down lineman just doesn't make sense if you want the defense to win the line of scrimmage. But it does seem like (A) we have a major problem getting pressure on the QB, and (B) what little success we've had in getting pressure has come when we've thrown strange DL configurations at the OL.

So I don't know if I'm ready to go all-in on the 3-4, but I do think we'd benefit from switching up from time to time, given the situation. It might help cause some more turnovers as well (for example, I think we were in an odd defensive formation on Schilz's pick at the end of the first half).


Ohio has recruited a roster for it's offense as well as defense.  It has taken a long time to get the right players for what our coordinators like to play.  The longer we are all on the same page the better the execution becomes.  Imagine TT in this same offense as a senior, if he can hold off Vick/Bell.  I am not in favor of this year four then next three.  I want our execution of what we run to get so sharp with athletes recruited for their roles that it does not matter much what the other side sets. 
Pataskala
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Posted: 11/19/2011 12:07 PM
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I don't think we need to scrap the 4-3 altogether, but it would be good to mix in a little 3-4 once in a while to keep the opposition guessing.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 11/19/2011 12:27 PM
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Would a 3-4 have shut down Temple as well?  Do 3-4's do well against the pistol/spread?

Put on this team 2 all conference type corners that tackle and are like fly paper and this team with all it's mistakes is probably 11-0.  MAC QB's aren't Aaron Rogers like even when they have little pressure on them so the best way to beat them is to take away their open targets.  Take away their favorite receiver 85% of the time and the way the defense contained Temple's running attack you'd see OUr D lineman get more coverage sacks without the need to jump the QB immediately.  

Just in these TV games there have been probably 6-8 balls that could have been picked if you had corners that aren't racing back to get to their open man but rather are right with them and can see where the errant pass is headed. 
UpSan Bobcat
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Posted: 11/19/2011 12:36 PM
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I think the three-man front is something the coaches are willing to do on occassion but not with regularity. They believe too much in stopping the run first and foremost. And besides that, although the pass rush has lacked somewhat this year, the fact is that it hasn't hurt the pass defense too much. The Bobcats still have the top pass efficiency defense in the MAC.
Athens
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Posted: 11/19/2011 12:47 PM
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If you are wanting to see even more speed on defense the 3-4 is the way to go. Do we actually give up the line of scrimmage when we drop a pair of linebackers up? Four studs on the front four is rare at the college level and then you have a question of depth when injuries arise. 
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 11/19/2011 1:14 PM
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Really?

You have 17 hours of practice time a week,right? You think that's time to teach and integrate two drastically different techniques simultaneously?

I read a book about the In N Out franchise about four years ago. The lesson was to make your burger. Make it well. Make sure the cheese on the burger gets melted.  Don't try to be a coffee shop and a fast food joint simultaneously. 

As for making the change permanently, I'd argue it 's tougher to recruit 330 pound NTs with athleticism in the MAC than it is edge pass rushers. Ted Washingtons and Jerry Balls don't just head to the MAC.
Last Edited: 11/19/2011 1:21:08 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:30 PM
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Interesting thread.  As one who advocated for years for occasional use of the hurry-up...and still wants to see more use of our TE's in the passing game...I like the idea of occasional use of the 3-4.  Take it to the offense.  Keep 'em off guard.

I also think that the d-line and linebacking is going to get better and better over the next few years.
Athens
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:49 PM
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We have a pair of TE's injured and that is why you aren't seeing the utilization at that spot.
Bcat2
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Posted: 11/19/2011 2:53 PM
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UpSan Bobcat wrote:expand_more
I think the three-man front is something the coaches are willing to do on occassion but not with regularity. They believe too much in stopping the run first and foremost. And besides that, although the pass rush has lacked somewhat this year, the fact is that it hasn't hurt the pass defense too much. The Bobcats still have the top pass efficiency defense in the MAC.


Currently second in pass eff def.  I am as much an ACQB as the next guy, but, when we have a four man front defense in the top two on pass eff def I want to give the D coaches/players medals not advice.
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