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Topic: So here we are now....
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OhioStunter
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Posted: 12/7/2011 1:41 PM
I don't know about Solich, but I do recall Coach Grobe greeting us for dinner at Shively Hall, shaking hands and encouraging folks to come to the games. Great guy.
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/7/2011 2:03 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Seems like the walkout worked against Temple this year when the entire stadium left at halftime of the "biggest" home game of the year.


Wow, there was an orchestrated walk out?  What was it in protest of?

Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Students as a whole don't give a crap about the product on the field, and putting this ridiculous slate of opponents in front of them does nothing to build brand equity into the future.


If they don’t give a crap about the product on the field, then the slate of opponents is irrelevant.  I personally don't buy that students don't give a crap about the product on the field, but having lived through the horror days of the early 80's - winning is a welcome change.  As was mentioned when I  ran into another alum in a store Sunday (I was wearing the colors and he stopped me), "we never would have been in championship game when I was there.".


Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
I can already hear future alumni talking 7 years into the future when they move to Columbus, Cleveland, Chicago wearing their Scarlet and Gray jerseys...

"Yeah, I guess OU had a good team when I was in school but we never played any good home games so I kept following Ohio State like I did growing up. We lost all the big games on the road, so I never really cared whether we won or lost MAC Titles or Bowl Games. I mean, I wasn't going to miss the Bucks game to go watch OU play Idaho or Gardner Webb."


Pure conjecture.  I could also hear alums say, “we were winning basketball and football games, went to bowl games and played in the NCAA tournament.  It was a blast.”

 

Let’s also appreciate that 90%+ of alums that follow/will follow the Cats in the future are those that followed them while in school.  Case in point, I was president of the Carzy Cats (the 80’s version of the O Zone).  And while winning the DePaul game is a very, very fond memory, it has absolutely no impact on my enthusiasm for or backing of the Cats.



Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
And who can blame them. Sure, we're at an interesting time in the history of Ohio Football, but it's still artificially inflated mediocrity as far as I presume.


Excellent word choice!

Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Gotta aim higher. Much higher.


I have never disagreed with this statement or sentiment.  But I focus it with respect to the team, not the fan.  For the good of the teams (basketball and football) I think we should be “moving up” as able.  And we are.  Our travel games will be winnable - I like that we are playing at Louisville in 2013.  A team we could go in and beat (versus going to a Blacksburg). Same with Kentucky a year later.  And Minnesota in 2015. 

I’m not naive nor foolish enough (and neither are you) to think we will get a big time team (PSU, Ala, etc.) in to Athens.  The next step, then, is to get the Louisville, Minnesota’s of the world to come to Athens.  Better to ask now, because as we continue to improve, teams’ won’t want to venture here (in spite of a limited home field advantage).  But now is the time to ask.  Not when we were 5-6 and a win in Athens did the visitor no good, but when we are consistently competing for the conference championship, when a win against us looks good and, God forbid, a loss is not embarrassing.

Finally, I’m fine with playing a Championship Subdivision team.  They need us, just as we need the PSU and Louisville’s.  I’d would rather see us be more creative though in the schedule.  Why not reach out to Butler, Richmond or Villanova instead of Gardner-Webb/S.E. Louisiana and offer a home and home in basketball as part of the package.  Hell, I'd offer to play AT Villanova to get a home and home in basketball!  Not so we can watch the Butler Bulldogs come in and play hoops against us, but because it would be good for the team and players.  And let's continue to reach out to those with connections to Ohio for scheduling (e.g., Greg Ianni at Michigan State)


Okay, this post is waaayy to long!  Sorry.


Last Edited: 12/7/2011 2:12:43 PM by cc-cat
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 12/7/2011 3:11 PM
Sold Post CC Cat!

There is no reason we should not be able to get a Minnesota, Indiana or Louisville to Peden every two or three years.

I am not real big on home and home's with New Mexico State.  We have a small alumni base

There are some FBS Schools I would rather play that are located closer to not only our alumni base, but also our recruiting base.

Richmond and William & Mary would be better name recognition games than Gardner-Webb.  Both have really nice but to small of stadiums for us to play there.

JMU might be a good home and away series.  We recruit Virginia and have a decent alumni base up that way and into Northern VA.  It is also drivable for many from most of Ohio and Parts of PA.  They also have a large stadium and draw well so we should do much better financially than the smaller crowd at New Mexico State and higher travel cost.


JMU's New Stadium!


Last Edited: 12/7/2011 3:13:06 PM by Bobcat Grad 86
sargentfan
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Posted: 12/7/2011 4:48 PM
I find it interesting Love that as you talk about the high cost in fees for students for our current product you fail to realize that depending on the opportunities available your more competitive schedule could actually increase our costs or limit us to one non-conf home game.  We are always going to have our one money game, for some time we will probably be keeping the Marshall game, and I kinda doubt we are gonna give up our FCS game for its in theory easy win.  So your looking at one open non-conf game spot where we don't seem to have the clout enough to get better teams to schedule us in a home and home without plopping down some extra cash we don't have.  Then you have to move to a 2 for 1 deal and that sucks as a fan to lose an early good weather home game.  Until we are seen as more attractive for a home and home against low-mid BCS or high non-BCS we are kind of in a pickle.

Also we only just hit some consistency with having 3 seasons in a row with 8 or more wins, but there still is a lot more to improve upon for this program.  You are right though that your complaints are gaining more merit with each passing year.  However neither you or I know what kind of schedule opportunities are available to our program.  So if you can find an example or two of opportunities the AD has passed on that would have gotten what you asked for without hurting us financial or losing an extra home game that would bolster your argument more.
Bobcat Love
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Posted: 12/7/2011 7:25 PM
All I'm asking for is someone to tell me at what finite juncture we have officially "turned the corner" where we can start scheduling real teams. That's it.

Enough abstract comments like "we need to consistently compete in the MAC" and "3 straight 8 win seasons is not enough"....someone just tell me EXACTLY what milestone will mark the place and time where the program has gotten past "trying to build something" and moved onto the next phase.

Just need all you wizards to educate me on concrete milestones I should look forward to in order to start seeing better games at Peden. What's the excuse in basketball?

You guys are an Athletic Director's dream. No expectations. No dreams. No fire to improve upon the status quo. Take your MACC berth and your Gardner Webb games and smile all the way up Richland Avenue singing zippity doo dah.

I'm selling some oceanfront property in Arizona, which is great, because 99% of this board are perspective buyers.
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Posted: 12/7/2011 9:39 PM
No way we should ever play at a FCS stadium.
bobcat695
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:12 PM
I'm not being critical of It'sAll AboutTheGreen as an individual, I'm just the complaining student body as a whole.

Is $500/quarter really a huge fee?  You get unlimited use of a fantastic gym (Ping), intramurals, a brand new Baker Center, subsidized shows/programs/speakers at Mem Aud, steeply discounted fees for golf and indoor tennis, ice skating, outdoor tennis, basketball and volleyball.  You also get front row seats to every single sporting event on campus, including 6 football and 14 or more basketball games and many other things I cannot take the time to list. 

Wait until you get out of school and have $167/month cable bill.  I am tired of listening to people think the student fee is outrageous and only funds athletics.  I'd look at it more like a resort fee.  That's what it is once you have a diploma.
Last Edited: 12/7/2011 10:14:39 PM by bobcat695
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:20 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
All I'm asking for is someone to tell me at what finite juncture we have officially "turned the corner" where we can start scheduling real teams. That's it.

Enough abstract comments like "we need to consistently compete in the MAC" and "3 straight 8 win seasons is not enough"....someone just tell me EXACTLY what milestone will mark the place and time where the program has gotten past "trying to build something" and moved onto the next phase.

Just need all you wizards to educate me on concrete milestones I should look forward to in order to start seeing better games at Peden. What's the excuse in basketball?

You guys are an Athletic Director's dream. No expectations. No dreams. No fire to improve upon the status quo. Take your MACC berth and your Gardner Webb games and smile all the way up Richland Avenue singing zippity doo dah.

I'm selling some oceanfront property in Arizona, which is great, because 99% of this board are perspective buyers.


I'm sorry, it was lost to you in that extensive post of mine:

"I’m not naive nor foolish enough (and neither are you) to think we will get a big time team (PSU, Ala, etc.) in to Athens.  The next step, then, is to get the Louisville, Minnesota’s of the world to come to Athens.  Better to ask now, because as we continue to improve, teams’ won’t want to venture here (in spite of a limited home field advantage).  But now is the time to ask.  Not when we were 5-6 and a win in Athens did the visitor no good, but when we are consistently competing for the conference championship, when a win against us looks good and, God forbid, a loss is not embarrassing."

Now is the time.  Which means it will take place on the field in 3 or 4 years in football and a year or two in basketball.  It is time.  Not because you or any other fan deserves it or yaps about it.  Not because of some perceived discontent amongst the student body and not because there would be spontaneous combustion of OSU gear in East Green if we schedule Louisville at home -  but because the quality of our team warrants it and our continued improvement depends on it.  Now is the time.  Because we are proving we can sustain success beyond the emergence of a star player.  The program(s) are successful - (though Wes has a good point about winning a regular season title).

Let's see if we can get a Louisville's, Minn., Miss St. of the world to start thinking home and home.  And let's start looking at the subdivision game as lure to get b-ball home and homes. 

But we must also remember, the team has improved, but the overall financial picture has not.  We need to be smart and prudent.
Last Edited: 12/7/2011 10:56:48 PM by cc-cat
JSF
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:25 PM
Every time I see this, I want to yell, "Entertain us!"
Athens
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:40 PM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
Enough abstract comments like "we need to consistently compete in the MAC" and "3 straight 8 win seasons is not enough"....someone just tell me EXACTLY what milestone will mark the place and time where the program has gotten past "trying to build something" and moved onto the next phase.

Just need all you wizards to educate me on concrete milestones I should look forward to in order to start seeing better games at Peden. What's the excuse in basketball?


How about a MAC regular season championship in football and basketball? That is a milestone that says we've made it. Until that time as many wins as possible need to be scheduled.
Business_Cat
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:45 PM
bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
I'm not being critical of It'sAll AboutTheGreen as an individual, I'm just the complaining student body as a whole.

Is $500/quarter really a huge fee?  You get unlimited use of a fantastic gym (Ping), intramurals, a brand new Baker Center, subsidized shows/programs/speakers at Mem Aud, steeply discounted fees for golf and indoor tennis, ice skating, outdoor tennis, basketball and volleyball.  You also get front row seats to every single sporting event on campus, including 6 football and 14 or more basketball games and many other things I cannot take the time to list. 

Wait until you get out of school and have $167/month cable bill.  I am tired of listening to people think the student fee is outrageous and only funds athletics.  I'd look at it more like a resort fee.  That's what it is once you have a diploma.


I hear you loud and clear. Myself, as a student, take advantage of all the perks you listed. All of which are true and valid. My point is: most students don't show up to games, go to ping, play golf, or take part in any of the perks you listed above. These are the people who have problems with the student fee. Not me, not at all. I love my ping and my bobcat games. I go to ALL of the home games, and you bet I was there in Detroit *sigh*. 

Also, the allocation of these fees are NOT transparent. We are one of the few schools without a specific page displaying a chart of the allocation of the fees. However, the Chief Information Officer of OU is taking care of this, he gave a presentation to student senate on this. But at this time, there is ZERO transparency, and students are pretty upset about that fact. 

Anyways.. $500 isn't huge. It's just that many don't feel like they're getting value because they do not care about our sports enough to attend them. A very, very sad fact.  A fact that will soon change I believe, the program is gaining momentum. Slowly, but surely. But that's the current consensus of the majority. If there are any current students here who disagree, I would absolutely love to hear your input (respectfully of course). 
Last Edited: 12/7/2011 10:46:29 PM by Business_Cat
cc-cat
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Posted: 12/7/2011 10:58 PM
Students who get upset at the fee are like old people that get upset that their tax dollars are going to schools.  They need to shut up and go to a damn game!
Last Edited: 12/7/2011 10:59:24 PM by cc-cat
First Street Forever
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Posted: 12/7/2011 11:48 PM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
JMU might be a good home and away series. 


oh dear...

JMU is D1-AA, right?

If so...

oh dear...







Last Edited: 12/7/2011 11:49:57 PM by First Street Forever
JSF
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Posted: 12/8/2011 12:20 AM
cc cat wrote:expand_more
Students who get upset at the fee are like old people that get upset that their tax dollars are going to schools.  They need to shut up and go to a damn game!


I asked someone with little interest in sports and zero interest in football what they thought of this. After "That's a terrible parallel!" the response: " I don't really know why everyone thinks that students have to go to games.
They're stupid. I don't care how much money I have to pay to keep them going; I am still not going to waste my time watching football. I mean I do care, but not in the sense that it will make me go to a game."
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Posted: 12/8/2011 9:01 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
because 99% of this board are perspective buyers.


I guess I'm in the 1% (woe is me) because I am not buying your perspective on anything.

Occupy BobcatAttack!
Last Edited: 12/8/2011 9:02:10 AM by Bobcatbob
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Posted: 12/8/2011 9:04 AM
Bobcatbob wrote:expand_more
Other than the significant fact that our OOC schedule may be one reason why we're playing in Idaho instead of Mobile, I don't have a complaint with the current slate of opponents.  We've got 9, hopefully, 10 wins, a lot of national exposure, for better or worse, and from all indications, a vibrant recruiting pipeline.  What's not to like?

Bob, I don't understand the significance of our OOC schedule to not playing in Mobile(?)
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 12/8/2011 9:14 AM
bostonbobcat wrote:expand_more
No way we should ever play at a FCS stadium.


I thought our screwed up schedule is about money and "butts in seats"?

Fact: JMU had  25,742 at their homecoming game this year, larger than any crowd in the history of Peden Stadium.

Fact: We traveled to New Mexico to play in front of 14,000!

Fact: There are 25 FCS teams rated ahead of New Mexico State

Opinion: I don't think we gained much exposure in New Mexico for recruiting purposes.

Fact: We are 0-1 against FCS Teams in Bowl Games!

Fact: I bought box seats as soon as we announced we had a home game against Virginia Tech only to give up the game.

Fact: JMU beat Virgina Tech last year in Blacksburg!

Fact: I gave up my season tickets after we dropped the Virginia Tech and Northwestern home games because our home scheduling is "crap" most years.
Mark Lembright '85
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Posted: 12/8/2011 9:29 AM
Bobcat Grad 86 wrote:expand_more
No way we should ever play at a FCS stadium.


I thought our screwed up schedule is about money and "butts in seats"?

Fact: JMU had 25,742 at their homecoming game this year, larger than any crowd in the history of Peden Stadium.

Fact: We traveled to New Mexico to play in front of 14,000!

Fact: There are 25 FCS teams rated ahead of New Mexico State

Opinion: I don't think we gained much exposure in New Mexico for recruiting purposes.

Fact: We are 0-1 against FCS Teams in Bowl Games!

Fact: I bought box seats as soon as we announced we had a home game against Virginia Tech only to give up the game.

Fact: JMU beat Virgina Tech last year in Blacksburg!

Fact: I gave up my season tickets after we dropped the Virginia Tech and Northwestern home games because our home scheduling is "crap" most years.
I wouldn't be so fast to trash some of the FCS programs. From the looks of it, JMU's new stadium's a lot better and nicer than Peden Stadium! JMU has a nice place.
mf279801
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Posted: 12/8/2011 9:46 AM
Bobcat Love wrote:expand_more
All I'm asking for is someone to tell me at what finite juncture we have officially "turned the corner" where we can start scheduling real teams. That's it.

Enough abstract comments like "we need to consistently compete in the MAC" and "3 straight 8 win seasons is not enough"....someone just tell me EXACTLY what milestone will mark the place and time where the program has gotten past "trying to build something" and moved onto the next phase.

Just need all you wizards to educate me on concrete milestones I should look forward to in order to start seeing better games at Peden. What's the excuse in basketball?

You guys are an Athletic Director's dream. No expectations. No dreams. No fire to improve upon the status quo. Take your MACC berth and your Gardner Webb games and smile all the way up Richland Avenue singing zippity doo dah.

I'm selling some oceanfront property in Arizona, which is great, because 99% of this board are perspective buyers.


When do we start getting "real" (which i read as top level BCS teams) to play in Athens? When T. Boone Pickens's beloved grandson or Bill Gates's children become OHIO undergrads. And even that is somewhat contingent on them fronting the money to make the University airport capable of handling commercial sized charter jets.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/8/2011 10:17 AM
mf279801 wrote:expand_more
the University airport capable of handling commercial sized charter jets.


Which, by the way, requires what? It seems like a very long runway for mere private/small jets. How much more length to get a jet large enough to handle a football team?
Bobcat Grad 86
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Posted: 12/8/2011 10:48 AM
So that I am clear, I want to upgrade the home schedule.  There is no reason that we should not be able to get the Indiana's and the Minnesota's of the world to come to Peden once in while.  How about two football games and a basketball game at Indiana for one home football game?

My only point with JMU is that we can be a little more creative and schedule some games that have more benefits than playing New Mexico State or Gardner Webb.  Virginia/Fork Union has been good to us the past decade for recruiting and we need to keep some exposure in that region.

The main thing is we need to reduce student apathy apart from our valued hardcore O-Zone football fans.  By getting an Indiana or Northwestern maybe twice a decade and a Virginia Tech every decade or two, we can create some "Big Time" type events like the Pitt game to raise the stature of Peden Stadium.

I agree that it would not make sense to play at 95% of the FCS schools, but if we have an attitude that under no circumstances should we, then we can't complain if a Big 10 teams says under no circumstances will we play at a MAC school. 
bobcat695
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Posted: 12/8/2011 11:26 AM
I am 100% against playing an away game at a FCS school, no matter who they are.  The only teams that play at FCS schools are other FCS schools.  Better home games can be scheduled, but football scheduling is done so far in advance that it will be a long time before anything major changes.  I would love to see some Conference USA teams on the home schedule (in addition to our Marshall series) instead of Wyoming, Idaho, NMSU, etc.  I would actually travel to an away game at ECU or Memphis if there were home/away deals done.  Having ECU back in Peden would be more enjoyable to me than Indiana.
Robert Fox
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Posted: 12/8/2011 11:39 AM
If Minnesota playing at Ohio is analagous to Ohio playing at James Madison, then you have to prescribe to the notion that IA football is not really IA--that the Big 10 is really in a league above the MAC. While that is true for all practical purposes, on paper, they are supposed to be in the same DIA classification.

On the other hand, Ohio playing James Madison is moving from DIA to DIAA. Not much good can come from that for Ohio. Not only are we expected to win, but now we have to do it at their place (and their place really is quite impressive. I've seen it from the interstate).

Many on this board work hard to diminish the perceived difference between the Minnesota's of the world and the Ohio's. A move like us playing at James Madison would further damage that concept. How many DIA schools have played in DIAA stadiums?

Disclaimer: I realize DIA and DIAA classifications are antiquated, but I don't care.
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Posted: 12/8/2011 12:25 PM
bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
Wait until you get out of school and have $167/month cable bill.


I agree with everything you said but a $167/month cable bill? I've never heard of a cable bill that high!

Ok, back to the discussion.
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Posted: 12/8/2011 12:44 PM

Love asks "when are we going to turn the proverbial corner". News flash, we aren't. We can't because we ARE "Cornered". We can do the wishes and butts __hit till the cows come home but we can't change location.

We are in the heart of Big 10 country positioned mere miles from one of the biggest football franchises in all of sport and that includes the NFL ones. OSU OWNS Ohio and it will NEVER change. It not only has the state brand it has National branding as well. Couple that with MICHIGAN's brand power in Michigan and to a far lesser extent Mich. State and the other National brand Notre Dame in Indiana and the MAC competes for eyeballs and butts in seats against 3 of the absolute behomeths in ALL of sport. A daunting task to say the least.

Add to that the deck is totally stacked and getting more stacked against the "Little Sisters of the Poor" conferences by the very behomeths as we speak. The recent $2000/yr stipend for all athletes doesn't help the OHIO's of the world for starters and without question the recent conference whoring spells doom for the small potatoes conferences. Simply put - we cannot compete in what is a rapidly expanding arms race amongst the BigBoys.

Take the OSU situation. Tressel/Tattoogate gives them a huge black eye, shame and financial misfortune. The solution - hire Urban Meyer to the tune of about 7million a year. Tell me again how we compete with that.
Oh, and name the NFL coach getting 7 million a year? I'm waiting................

Oh, IF we could just get Louisville/Minnesota/IowaState on our home schedule instead of VMI we'll be in the "tall cotton". Yea, right. By the way, the aforementioned have been on our home schedule before and we're still picking "_hit with the chickens" and always will be in what is BigBoyFootball.
 
Our home schedule consists every year of 4 MAC home games. In our "folly" to think we can compete with the OSU's of the world, we ESPN ourselves to playing 1-2 of those 4 games on a cold,dark Mid-week November night.  Yea, I get the "exposure" attribute. I also get that the few alumni that are able to attend a week-night game and the attending students really get "exposed". To a cold, dark November evening. Someone tell me again how it's conducive to getting butts in seats from "traveling" alumni or to "students" whose primary purpose is probably to be studying for the next days classes playing on a cold, dark mid-week November evening? 

Who amongst us doesn't wish for EVERY home game to be PITT instead of the "pitts"? The PITT game was the perfect storm: Got Frank's Home Debut, which hiring Frank happened to be the most marketed, hyped event in probably the history of OHIO athletics. It was also the Friday evening of move in weekend and the freshmen hadn't yet been OUized that attending OHIO athletic events is "not the thing to do". It was also our first shot of a game in Athens being on an ESPN channel that people could actually get on their TV's.  Tough to duplicate.


Think it's not a stacked deck? I doubt Boise State or Houston will be attending our pity party. They both just had phenomenal years. Anyone check what BCS bowl each of them landed in? Yea and we're bitchin' about the Siberia Bowl.

I go back to the glory year of 1968. The undefeated MAC champions and one of few D1 undefeated teams in the Nation that year. That was pre-ESPN, pre-BCS, pre-internet meaning pre-BobcatAttack. Undefeated OSU got the RoseBowl bid and ended as National Champion. Being undefeated we got the Orange Bowl, no, we got the Gator Bowl, no instead we got the Tangerine Bowl. My point - the more things change the more they stay the same. Although it makes for interesting, time-wasting blog,s in the words of Dennis Green - We Are Who We Thought We  Are.

You want to change the situation - It will truly take an act of Congress. Seems to be a movement about to "paying their fair share and leveling the playing field" going on. Maybe we should "Occupy the BCS".  Go Bobcats!!!!
 

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