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Topic: My one major complaint about 2012 coaching
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OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/27/2011 12:07 PM
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As our Certified Pigskin Analyst has stated on many occasions, why don't we go under center sometimes in short yardage situations?  I've heard the excuses that the OC and QB are used to the long snap and a fumble would be more likely if they changed their routine for these special situations, but I'm not buying it.  I see other teams make this kind of adjustment all the time.  A shotgun or pistol formation with 3rd and a half inch to go doesn't make sense to me in most circumstances, unless you have no faith in your OL to push that half inch when the DL knows it's coming.  I'm just perplexed by this always-in-the-pistol mentality.  But, I'm not a real good Xs and Os type of guy, and I think a ten-win season, considering our recent past, is an overall excellent performance. 
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 12/27/2011 1:00 PM
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It is puzzling but I am willing to admit that people who make hundreds of thousands of dollars doing it are better coaches than I. The old saying applies twice in this case, if it really was that easy, everybody would be doing it.
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 12/27/2011 1:03 PM
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I'd like to point out that our kick coverage, which seemed very suspect early in the year, got squared away and was really clicking by the end of the season. Props to our special teams coaches who recognized whatever the issue was and got ti fixed.
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Posted: 12/27/2011 1:49 PM
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OhioCatFan wrote:expand_more
As our Certified Pigskin Analyst has stated on many occasions, why don't we go under center sometimes in short yardage situations?  I've heard the excuses that the OC and QB are used to the long snap and a fumble would be more likely if they changed their routine for these special situations, but I'm not buying it.  I see other teams make this kind of adjustment all the time.  A shotgun or pistol formation with 3rd and a half inch to go doesn't make sense to me in most circumstances, unless you have no faith in your OL to push that half inch when the DL knows it's coming.  I'm just perplexed by this always-in-the-pistol mentality.  But, I'm not a real good Xs and Os type of guy, and I think a ten-win season, considering our recent past, is an overall excellent performance. 


The pistol is designed to allow the QB/DC to read the defense for weaknesses then exploit said weaknesses.  The pistol with all weapons deployed can attack any direction via the run or pass.  The idea is to attack where the defense is weakest.  I remember a short yardage situation with a double TE to the left side that looked like a power set that resulted in a two wide open TEs for TT to chose from, he chose JT.  Too easy.  I can also remember short yardage right behind Herman, other times behind Lechner.  The key is to avoid tendancies that allow defenses to cheat.  Check the MAC stats, currently Ohio leads the MAC in 3rd down conversion %.  Hard to complain about that.  1 inch, one yard, five yards does not matter, the idea is to avoid the strength of the D.  Work smarter not harder.  
  
http://www.mac-sports.com/portals/20/MAC/Stats/2011FB/confldrs.htm
Casper71
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Posted: 12/27/2011 1:57 PM
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Seems easy enough to quantify for someone with game film or a photographic memoary (if they saw every game).  Just get all the 3rd or 4th and 1 yard to go situations and see how many we made/didn't make.  I tend to agree with many...I like the old power I but maybe our stats show we can make the short down yards from the pistol.  I would assume the coaches have looked at this all year and now know it is or is not a weakness and will make the appropriate adjustments if necessary.
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Posted: 12/27/2011 2:52 PM
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Casper71 wrote:expand_more
Seems easy enough to quantify for someone with game film or a photographic memoary (if they saw every game).  Just get all the 3rd or 4th and 1 yard to go situations and see how many we made/didn't make.  I tend to agree with many...I like the old power I but maybe our stats show we can make the short down yards from the pistol.  I would assume the coaches have looked at this all year and now know it is or is not a weakness and will make the appropriate adjustments if necessary.


To me the major weaknesses  to not being  able to go under center are in goal line situations and at the end of a game.
When you're inside the 5 yard line your options are  limited by the back of the end zone.i'd like to be able to run the ball in,without having to make up 2-3 yards for the pistol.Even though TT scored at the end of the Potato Bowl,from 1 yard out,with his size and strenth a QB sneak should have gone right in.

I also think that a "victory' formation should be just that.No chance for a mistake.There's a lot more that can go wrong on a long snap then the QB under center.
 
C Money
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Posted: 12/27/2011 3:01 PM
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I do think the goal line is where our O's weaknesses become apparent, but I don't think it's a result of not being under center per se, but rather the lack of a lead blocker. It's a different kind of read for the RB to make that he might not be used to, but I saw too many good drives stall and settle for FG attempts this year. I'd like to see that improve next year.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/27/2011 3:32 PM
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I like under center.

But at least give me two running backs there so that the defense has to account for three guys (qb and 2 rb's).  And give me one of those running backs at 215 lbs or more--for blocking force or running force.  Heck, have one of those running backs go out for swing pass. 

Remember O-regon vs. Auburn last year at the goal line late?  It didn't work with a small running back.  I can't remember if they started with one running back and changed to two or only went with one or went with two for all of the plays.  But the play that got it in was the forward pitch to the running back as he crossed in front of the qb.  It took kind of a trick play, something the D hadn't seen before for O-regon to get six at the goal line late after a couple of tries with a lightweight running back hadn't worked.

Near the goal line in shotgun with qb and rb 5-6 yards back, with running back going 180 lbs?  Not so much.

I thought that they said in the bowl game that we had one of the worst redzone offenses in MAC.  Perhaps because of no beef at the goal?!
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Posted: 12/27/2011 3:52 PM
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Goal Line issues for running should be mute, Tuesday Monday Quarterback has shown multiple instances in the pros where if you just throw in a little misdirection with motion away from the play that the run succeeds a whole lot better than just trying to run toward a blatant spot where it is all a battle of wills. 
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/27/2011 4:40 PM
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Monroe Slavin wrote:expand_more
I like under center.

But at least give me two running backs there so that the defense has to account for three guys (qb and 2 rb's).  And give me one of those running backs at 215 lbs or more--for blocking force or running force.  Heck, have one of those running backs go out for swing pass. 

Remember O-regon vs. Auburn last year at the goal line late?  It didn't work with a small running back.  I can't remember if they started with one running back and changed to two or only went with one or went with two for all of the plays.  But the play that got it in was the forward pitch to the running back as he crossed in front of the qb.  It took kind of a trick play, something the D hadn't seen before for O-regon to get six at the goal line late after a couple of tries with a lightweight running back hadn't worked.

Near the goal line in shotgun with qb and rb 5-6 yards back, with running back going 180 lbs?  Not so much.

I thought that they said in the bowl game that we had one of the worst redzone offenses in MAC.  Perhaps because of no beef at the goal?!


Oregon/Auburn, credit Auburn's D. Remember defense wins championships, Auburn fielded 8 seniors and two juniors on that D.  One of the juniors was Fairley, now with the Lions.  Small back/big back Auburn was tough to move short yardage.  About the red zone stats, vs Marshall Ohio was 6-6, vs Rutgars 3-3, vs Temple 3-3, vs Miami 3-4, vs NIU 3-4 or 90%.  Season avg was 80%. Not sure what it was, but, I know the staff will be working hard on it.
C Money
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Posted: 12/27/2011 5:34 PM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
 About the red zone stats, vs Marshall Ohio was 6-6, vs Rutgars 3-3, vs Temple 3-3, vs Miami 3-4, vs NIU 3-4 or 90%.  Season avg was 80%. Not sure what it was, but, I know the staff will be working hard on it.


Look at red zone TDs, not scores:
2 of 7 vs. Gardner-Webb.
3 of 6 vs. Marshall.
2 of 4 vs. Kent.
2 of 5 vs. Buffalo.
2 of 5 vs. Akron.
3 of 6 vs. Central
1 of 7 vs. BG
1 of 4 vs. NIU
30 of 61 overall -- less than 50%.

That's worst in the conference (overall, MAC teams scored TDs about 61.4% of the time in the red zone).
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/27/2011 5:52 PM
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Bcat2, some good insights.  Thanks.  Note that I didn't say we should always go under center in short yardage situations, but just have this as an option.  Keep the defense guessing.
Bcat2
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Posted: 12/27/2011 7:22 PM
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C Money wrote:expand_more
 About the red zone stats, vs Marshall Ohio was 6-6, vs Rutgars 3-3, vs Temple 3-3, vs Miami 3-4, vs NIU 3-4 or 90%.  Season avg was 80%. Not sure what it was, but, I know the staff will be working hard on it.


Look at red zone TDs, not scores:
2 of 7 vs. Gardner-Webb.
3 of 6 vs. Marshall.
2 of 4 vs. Kent.
2 of 5 vs. Buffalo.
2 of 5 vs. Akron.
3 of 6 vs. Central
1 of 7 vs. BG
1 of 4 vs. NIU
30 of 61 overall -- less than 50%.

That's worst in the conference (overall, MAC teams scored TDs about 61.4% of the time in the red zone).


As I posted, I know the staff will work on it before next season. However, all is not lost.  Scoring offense 4th @ 31 ppg, total offense 4th @ 454 ypg, 3rd dn conv 1st @ 48.5%, red zone chances 2nd @ 61, red zone TDs tied for 4th @ 30, total 1st downs 2nd @ 305, interceptions 1st @ 15, scoring defense 2nd @ 22.1, rushind defense 3rd @ 126.4.  This is all great progress from recent history.  The glass is way more than half full.  You have to love the guys involved with bringing Ohio to this level of success.

http://www.mac-sports.com/portals/20/MAC/Stats/2011FB/confldrs.htm
bobcat695
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Posted: 12/27/2011 11:50 PM
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I'd suggest you call Frank and offer some advice about this.  I think he would be quite receptive.  I doubt they ever even thought about that and would appreciate the astute observation.
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Posted: 12/28/2011 12:05 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
I'd suggest you call Frank and offer some advice about this.  I think he would be quite receptive.  I doubt they ever even thought about that and would appreciate the astute observation.


This is so annoying. This is a message board for fans, where we can discuss things and offer our thoughts and opinions. This has no impact on coaching or team performance, it's just a fan's view of the season, coaches, players, etc. 

Message boards get real old and die quick when everything is "go team go", "coach is awesomzeee", "we're tha best", etc.

It's fun to have these discussion about what ifs and things that might improve the team. Do they have any influence, no, but that shouldn't stop fans from discussing their thoughts. 

Holy crap this is so annoying on this board. 
allen
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Posted: 12/28/2011 9:45 AM
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My biggest gripe was the tackling. We really did not wrap up the ball carriers and this facet of the game never improved. I know they reduced the hitting in practice to reduce injuries but they better tackle better next year or we will fumble away victories. I also noticed our player taking bad angles on coverage and giving up to many explosive plays. If we come out like we did three years ago when going into the off season sSolich said we would focus on forcing turnovers. That season we were number 2 in the nation in forcing turnovers. Schools like Penn State can not be bailed out by poor tackling, we need to go there and give them a butt whooping. Stop all the grabbing hit and wrap. Also stop missing the QB if you get your hands on him bring him down. Go Cats!
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Posted: 12/28/2011 9:52 AM
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I agree with the general sentiment, however let me add the following:
* We scored the winning touchdown in the bowl game from the one yard line out of the shotgun. The one advantage is the QB can take care of all fakes, etc., without turning his back to, and therefore taking his eyes off, the defense.
* In the victory formation, if the QB fumbles from the shotgun, he is more likely to recover than if he fumbles the snap under center because the defense is five yards away from the ball instead of one. The problem is, he or the center is more likely to mess up the snap.
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Posted: 12/28/2011 10:09 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
I'd suggest you call Frank and offer some advice about this.  I think he would be quite receptive.  I doubt they ever even thought about that and would appreciate the astute observation.




         ok listen up,   I actually talked to Frank at the NC A&T basketball game, I ask him if he was tryin to give me a heart attack by not lining up under center when we needed 6 inches to score and after he finally quit laughing, He told me,  that same play was called 12 times in short down situations over the season and was successful all 12 times,  so thats why it was called and that was the 1st time it has been stopped. He also told me lining Tettleton up in the shotgun on short yardage, gives Tyler a better view of the holes to run through on short down situations.   Had a great talk with Frank,  he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.

--------------------------------------------

Dennis  'G'
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Posted: 12/28/2011 10:18 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
As I posted, I know the staff will work on it before next season. However, all is not lost.  Scoring offense 4th @ 31 ppg, total offense 4th @ 454 ypg, 3rd dn conv 1st @ 48.5%, red zone chances 2nd @ 61, red zone TDs tied for 4th @ 30, total 1st downs 2nd @ 305, interceptions 1st @ 15, scoring defense 2nd @ 22.1, rushind defense 3rd @ 126.4.  This is all great progress from recent history.  The glass is way more than half full.  You have to love the guys involved with bringing Ohio to this level of success.


Improvement on weaknesses (without regression in strengths) is all I ask for. If we could convert red zone opportunities into TDs at the average conference rate, maybe that's just an extra 3 or 4 points a game. But an extra 3 or 4 points per game makes this year a 13-1 season, with an undefeated conference record and (probably) top 25 ranking. 

Along the same lines, how blessed are we to have the best kicker in the MAC? Without Weller we're, what, 6-6?
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Posted: 12/28/2011 11:12 AM
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BobcatGman wrote:expand_more
I'd suggest you call Frank and offer some advice about this.  I think he would be quite receptive.  I doubt they ever even thought about that and would appreciate the astute observation.




         ok listen up,   I actually talked to Frank at the NC A&T basketball game, I ask him if he was tryin to give me a heart attack by not lining up under center when we needed 6 inches to score and after he finally quit laughing, He told me,  that same play was called 12 times in short down situations over the season and was successful all 12 times,  so thats why it was called and that was the 1st time it has been stopped. He also told me lining Tettleton up in the shotgun on short yardage, gives Tyler a better view of the holes to run through on short down situations.   Had a great talk with Frank,  he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.

--------------------------------------------

Dennis  'G'


Gman you got it right.  Everything that is run both offense and defense has statistics behind them.  They have student assistants on staff that chart every play and the result.  This is for OUr team and for the opponent every week.   This data is available to the coordinators during the game.  On defense they may have film from previous games to try to gain insight on tendencies.  They look at OUr data to see if we have any tendencies.    Also, on the final touchdown play TT slipped and regained his footing then saw the opening wide and took it.  If he was under center that would not have happened.   I also echo your comment about Coach Solich.  Quality Guy.
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 12/28/2011 11:37 AM
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BobcatGman wrote:expand_more
         ok listen up,   I actually talked to Frank at the NC A&T basketball game, I ask him if he was tryin to give me a heart attack by not lining up under center when we needed 6 inches to score and after he finally quit laughing, He told me,  that same play was called 12 times in short down situations over the season and was successful all 12 times,  so thats why it was called and that was the 1st time it has been stopped. He also told me lining Tettleton up in the shotgun on short yardage, gives Tyler a better view of the holes to run through on short down situations.   Had a great talk with Frank,  he is one of the nicest guys you will ever meet.


Thanks for the information, G-man.  I completely agree about Frank.  I've asked him questions about players and play calling before and always received a polite and thoughtful reply.  He's not one of those coaches who is condescending toward fans, even those with stupid questions, like some of mine no doubt have been.  
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Posted: 12/30/2011 11:20 AM
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bobcat695 wrote:expand_more
I'd suggest you call Frank and offer some advice about this.  I think he would be quite receptive.  I doubt they ever even thought about that and would appreciate the astute observation.


In Nebraska, coaches have regular radio shows with fan call in. Frank, and before him Tom Osborne, took call after call from fans who offered criticism of play calling, personnel selection, and game management, as well as  detailed coaching advice. I was always amazed at how patient and respectful these coaches were with the fans who criticized their football knowledge; fans some of whom might have played high school football but many who never played football or even attended Nebraska. 
Last Edited: 12/30/2011 11:22:43 AM by gtgphd
Paul Graham
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Posted: 12/30/2011 12:36 PM
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I still think they should try and add a few under center plays to the repertoire. It's too restricting not having that available to us. 
bobcatsquared
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Posted: 12/30/2011 2:48 PM
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   Would like to see Weller, or whoever, come closer to the goal line on kickoffs rather than the 20-yard line. And tacklers focus on wrapping up rather than stripping the football.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 12/30/2011 9:18 PM
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We go as far in the 2012 season as our lines take us, espec the d-line's ability to pass pressure.

Could be kinda fun to see our d-secondary in action if we are tough up front.  We need to start turning it up on defense.  Would love to us the oppo only averaging 14-17 ppg against us next year.
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