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Topic: Meanwhile back in Herdistan
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MedinaCat
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Posted: 4/23/2012 8:15 AM
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http://marshall.rivals.com/showmsg.asp?fid=2236&tid=1...


Love the reaction and rationalization.
Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 4/23/2012 1:39 PM
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Quote:expand_more
I will stand by my statement that good people do not get arrested. Even if minor the guys had to do something wrong to get arrested.


(Spit take)
Last Edited: 4/23/2012 1:39:45 PM by Brian Smith (No, not that one)
KyleWvr13
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Posted: 4/24/2012 1:55 AM
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Such EXTREME views.
OUBob
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Posted: 4/24/2012 2:55 PM
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Guy posts "Cops tell you to move on, you move on" and gets flamed.

Another post: "Honestly, if I were leaving a party and the police told me I couldn't leave I'd tell them to go to hell. Last I checked this is a free country and unless you are going to charge me with a crime I am going to walk." And you will get arrested and charged with a crime.


Ignorance is not bliss. I also love that these guys punched a cop in the face and the general reaction is "what, you dont party?" Different scene over there I guess.
JSF
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Posted: 4/24/2012 3:45 PM
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OUBob wrote:expand_more
Another post: "Honestly, if I were leaving a party and the police told me I couldn't leave I'd tell them to go to hell. Last I checked this is a free country and unless you are going to charge me with a crime I am going to walk." And you will get arrested and charged with a crime.


Unless there's probable cause, they can't make you stay, right?
L.C.
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Posted: 4/24/2012 4:00 PM
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Well, if you want to find out if there is something they can charge you with, you dare them to charge you. That alone may qualify for probably cause for "drunk and disorderly".
Last Edited: 4/24/2012 4:02:09 PM by L.C.
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/24/2012 9:52 PM
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Warren gets the ax and the other three are headed for the doghouse:

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7849899/ma...
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 4/25/2012 12:43 AM
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The question becomes 'are the stupd cows smart enough to get the msg being sent?'
crackerbaby00
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Posted: 4/25/2012 11:13 AM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
Another post: "Honestly, if I were leaving a party and the police told me I couldn't leave I'd tell them to go to hell. Last I checked this is a free country and unless you are going to charge me with a crime I am going to walk." And you will get arrested and charged with a crime.


Unless there's probable cause, they can't make you stay, right?


Depends on the laws of the State.  In NC, if the police are investigating something and you delay them (which has been interpreted to mean a lot of things) in their investigation, you can be charged with a Resist, Delay, Obstruct, a class 2 misdemeanor
OhioCatFan
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Posted: 4/25/2012 11:46 AM
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A lawyer, using the screename stapletonj, posted the following on the Marshall board, which I think is sage advice, and I believe it hits the nail on the head in terms of how many of these situations develop and the likely outcome if you don't use your smarts and instead let your testosterone take over:

 
Justice Douglas once said (paraphrasing here) [Love Justice Douglas . . . real First Amendment hero, in OCF's book.]:  When looking at all the cases of loitering/disturbing the peace/vagrancy/obstructing an officer/fleeing an officer/creating a disturbance, etc etc etc etc, most of them boil down to one real offense, "contempt of cop". [Emphasis mine]

PS - the fact (if it was a fact) that it was private as opposed to public property gives the police LESS authority to order someone to go away, NOT MORE. (Unless the owenr of record is there telling the people to leave and they wont get off his property)

As I have counseled many young clients when asked about standing up for thier civil rights and liberties:

1. IT is a noble thing
2. Never do it drunk or high or you will lose every time
3. You will 100% for sure get arrested and spend at least one night in jail (NEVER plan your civil disobediance/exercise of free speech, etc., on Friday night unless you want to spend the WHOLE WEEKEND IN JAIL)
4. Be prepared to spend HUNDREDS of hours and THOUSANDS of dollars preparing for your jury trial (NO MAGISTRATE is EVER gonna find you not guilty on one of these, no matter what the facts)
5. Understand that the officers are professional testifiers, they do it all day, every day, and they will not break down even under the brilliantly worded questions you give to your lawyer to use on cross.
6. IF all this goes as planned, AND the jury finds in your favor, THEN AND ONLY THEN do you even get a CRACK at suing the City or the Officers in Federal Court.
7. Did I mention that you bear the burden of proof in Federal Court and all the officers have to show in order to prevail is that they had probable cause to arrest you for some type of crime at all?
8. Did I mention that you most likely will receive virtually nothing (less than $15,000.00) even if you win?

Now, if you are such an advocate of free speech that you want to play those odds, by all means have at it. And I personally hope you win and win as big as possible if the officers do in fact arrest you wrongly.
Last Edited: 4/25/2012 11:51:22 AM by OhioCatFan
OUBob
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Posted: 4/25/2012 1:40 PM
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JSF wrote:expand_more
Another post: "Honestly, if I were leaving a party and the police told me I couldn't leave I'd tell them to go to hell. Last I checked this is a free country and unless you are going to charge me with a crime I am going to walk." And you will get arrested and charged with a crime.


Unless there's probable cause, they can't make you stay, right?


I thought if an officer issues a command ("stop" "put it down" "tell me your name" Unless you live here, leave" ) during an investigation, you must comply. I assume this is probable cause. Until they know who is who/what, if you disobey them, they have probable cause.
Pataskala
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Posted: 4/25/2012 7:57 PM
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OUBob wrote:expand_more
Another post: "Honestly, if I were leaving a party and the police told me I couldn't leave I'd tell them to go to hell. Last I checked this is a free country and unless you are going to charge me with a crime I am going to walk." And you will get arrested and charged with a crime.


Unless there's probable cause, they can't make you stay, right?


I thought if an officer issues a command ("stop" "put it down" "tell me your name" Unless you live here, leave" ) during an investigation, you must comply. I assume this is probable cause. Until they know who is who/what, if you disobey them, they have probable cause.


I'm not a criminal lawyer and I didn't stay at a HIX last night, but I think they only need probable cause to search you or make an arrest.  If they're conducting an investigation into a disturbance or something, you can't impede their investigation, even on your own property.  You can be uncooperative and not answer questions, but lying to them could be obstruction, and not following instructions is a sure way to get cuffed while they continue their investigation.  They can't search the premises without a warrant unless they suspect something illegal going and evidence would likely be destroyed before a warrant can be issued or the evidence is in plain view. 
Bobcatbob
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Posted: 4/26/2012 8:48 AM
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OCF has eloquently explained the same advice I gave my four sons in abbreviated form.

Don't ever put yourself in a position that gives a cop or prosecuting atty. a chance to decide your next move.  Simple words yet frequently ignored by a lot of young people on their own for the first time. 

Fortunately for most of us, cops aren't all that interested in wasting time on petty teenage crap unless you force them to.
OUBob
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Posted: 4/26/2012 3:06 PM
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Bobcatbob wrote:expand_more
OCF has eloquently explained the same advice I gave my four sons in abbreviated form.

Don't ever put yourself in a position that gives a cop or prosecuting atty. a chance to decide your next move.  Simple words yet frequently ignored by a lot of young people on their own for the first time. 

Fortunately for most of us, cops aren't all that interested in wasting time on petty teenage crap unless you force them to.


And when they DO get interested, if you listen to them and understand they are just doing their job, they will usually tell you to knock it off and move along. Really, if you get arrested, you've got to be doing something completely isnorant, or just want it.

I was ignorant. I saw ALOT of people who must have just wanted it.
Last Edited: 4/26/2012 3:08:22 PM by OUBob
DelBobcat
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Posted: 4/26/2012 4:54 PM
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OUBob wrote:expand_more
OCF has eloquently explained the same advice I gave my four sons in abbreviated form.

Don't ever put yourself in a position that gives a cop or prosecuting atty. a chance to decide your next move.  Simple words yet frequently ignored by a lot of young people on their own for the first time. 

Fortunately for most of us, cops aren't all that interested in wasting time on petty teenage crap unless you force them to.


And when they DO get interested, if you listen to them and understand they are just doing their job, they will usually tell you to knock it off and move along. Really, if you get arrested, you've got to be doing something completely isnorant, or just want it.

I was ignorant. I saw ALOT of people who must have just wanted it.


That may be true in Suburban America, or if you're white and middle to upper class. But if you're a black kid in West Philly it doesn't matter how respectful you are, or whether you're guilty of a crime. Kids learn to resent cops because they know that they are in danger of being arrested every time they walk out of the  house.

Not saying that applies in Huntington, but there are still places in this country where it is very easy to get arrested for having the wrong color skin or dressing the wrong way.
The Pessimist
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Posted: 4/27/2012 12:14 AM
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I didn't follow it all, forgive me if I'm repeating.  Also, I'm not offering professional legal advice.

Disposing of all the "reasonable" mumbo-jumbo and getting to the chase:

Cops can detain just about anyone for just about anything, for about 20 minutes, with or without cuffs.  Cop doesn't have to say "you are being detained" or read Miranda rights.  Resisting detention is a crime.  Even if you're not in doubt about your status, ask if you may leave before leaving.

Assuming we're talking about minor league college town antics, fessing up and playing nice is going to turn out a lot better than hopping in a car and peeling out.  

"Contempt of Cop" is right.  No one ever got in trouble for showing effusive respect for a cop.

Yes, sir.  No, sir.  Thank you, sir.  Please, sir.

vs

I dunno, man.  Come on, n***a.  Boy, whaddya mean?  Awww, sh**, m***f***r.


How do you think the situation in Florida right now would have been different if the accused had slurred some grammatically incorrect, obscenity laced, evasive answers at the cops on that horrible night?  Regardless of how it was or how it plays out in court, we can all agree that the accused was treated very leniently by the police on the night of.  I'll bet a pitcher of Natty that he showed much deference to the police and that influenced the chain of events leading to his release.

Moral of the story: if you're nice to the cops you may just get away with anything.
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