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Topic: Note to Tim Albin: New play needed for third and short
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SBH
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Posted: 10/14/2012 12:03 PM
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Someone explain the strategy behind the v formation used in third and short situations. Tried three times, failed twice.  Kind of telegraphs the QB sneak, don't you think?


Brian Smith (No, not that one)
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Posted: 10/14/2012 12:04 PM
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Along with the OU, Oh Yeah chant, we've started a new tradition. Every week an assistant coach will get his name put in a headline.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 10/14/2012 1:28 PM
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You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 10/14/2012 3:59 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.


OUr team gets its plays from XBox?

Does XBox poorly train for end of first half clock management?  Getting the ball down to the 12 and having first down and 3 dumbaxe passes that run about 10 seconds off the clock then kick the 3 would indicate the XBox program is faulty.  Offense puts defense back on the field which results in opponent getting 7 is clearly on the backs of the offensive hired help.  

Better that TT use his Ohio education which is superior to whatever institution the time manager attended and know to run on first down, drain 40 seconds off the clock and if still needed run the other plays before taking the 3.


Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 10/14/2012 5:56 PM
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Weren't kron's td and end of first half and at beginning of 2nd both aided by unnecessary roughness penalties?  We aren't good enough to overcome mental mistakes like that consistently.
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 10/14/2012 6:21 PM
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MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.


OUr team gets its plays from XBox?

Does XBox poorly train for end of first half clock management? Getting the ball down to the 12 and having first down and 3 dumbaxe passes that run about 10 seconds off the clock then kick the 3 would indicate the XBox program is faulty. Offense puts defense back on the field which results in opponent getting 7 is clearly on the backs of the offensive hired help.

Better that TT use his Ohio education which is superior to whatever institution the time manager attended and know to run on first down, drain 40 seconds off the clock and if still needed run the other plays before taking the 3.
Can you even read? Said nothing about our team getting plays from a game, but rather Monday morning QB's getting their knowledge from one.
MonroeClassmate
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Posted: 10/14/2012 7:13 PM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.


OUr team gets its plays from XBox?

Does XBox poorly train for end of first half clock management? Getting the ball down to the 12 and having first down and 3 dumbaxe passes that run about 10 seconds off the clock then kick the 3 would indicate the XBox program is faulty. Offense puts defense back on the field which results in opponent getting 7 is clearly on the backs of the offensive hired help.

Better that TT use his Ohio education which is superior to whatever institution the time manager attended and know to run on first down, drain 40 seconds off the clock and if still needed run the other plays before taking the 3.


Can you even read? Said nothing about our team getting plays from a game, but rather Monday morning QB's getting their knowledge from one.


What, no Monday morning QB'ing allowed.  What number and what years did you play at Ohio wise one?
Last Edited: 10/14/2012 7:28:32 PM by MonroeClassmate
Deciduous Forest Cat
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Posted: 10/14/2012 10:50 PM
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Sure, not every play works all the time.  Otherwise, the game wouldn't involve a whole lot of mystery.

However, I'm very concerned about the performance of our offense.  Our inability to get key 1st downs late in the game against horrible teams.  Not scoring is one thing, but just getting a couple first downs so we don't have to sweat this out EVERY week.  A couple first downs in the 4th quarter and all three of these wins look a lot more respectable at two-score differentials.  

Now... we have played the three worst teams in the MAC, two of them at home. Again, glad we won, glad we're 7-0, and glad we're ranked, but can we just put our foot on a throat and squish?  Just once? 

How is it that Akron, of all teams, turned us one-dimensional yesterday?  The passing game looked as abysmal as I can remember in a long time.  Take away the trick play and we barely threw for the century mark.  Tyler also missed some easy throws, but we can call that an anomaly because that doesn't happen often and he gets the benefit of the doubt as they guy who has shattered every offensive record at the school.

Positives?  After about a game and a half of really poor tackling, I think we were much better in the 2nd half against buffalo and pretty solid yesterday with a few exceptions. Akron's running game was mostly due to big holes not missed tackles like vs. Buffalo.
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Posted: 10/14/2012 11:48 PM
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I think this is a somewhat valid thread. The percentages have gone down since the game against the Terd.

Looking at the games leading into the game at Huntington:
  • Penn State - 13 of 21
  • New Mexico State - 8 of 14
  • Marshall - 10 of 20
Looking at the Third-Down Conversion stats since Marshall:
  • Norfolk State - 3 of 15
  • UMASS - 8 of 17
  • Buffalo - 6 of 13
  • Akron - 3 of 14
It seems to me that we just aren't converting on third downs period.  Before and including the Marshall game, we converted at least 50% of opportunities.  



However, the most disappointing thing to me is the inability of the defense to get off the field on third down. It's almost a surprise when the defense gets a stop.
  • Penn State - 8 of 16
  • New Mexico State - 5 of 14
  • Marshall - 11 of 20
  • Norfolk State - 7 of 16
  • UMASS - 10 of 19
  • Buffalo - 10 of 19
  • Akron - 9 of 18
BillyTheCat
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Posted: 10/15/2012 11:17 AM
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MonroeClassmate wrote:expand_more
You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.


OUr team gets its plays from XBox?

Does XBox poorly train for end of first half clock management? Getting the ball down to the 12 and having first down and 3 dumbaxe passes that run about 10 seconds off the clock then kick the 3 would indicate the XBox program is faulty. Offense puts defense back on the field which results in opponent getting 7 is clearly on the backs of the offensive hired help.

Better that TT use his Ohio education which is superior to whatever institution the time manager attended and know to run on first down, drain 40 seconds off the clock and if still needed run the other plays before taking the 3.


Can you even read? Said nothing about our team getting plays from a game, but rather Monday morning QB's getting their knowledge from one.


What, no Monday morning QB'ing allowed.  What number and what years did you play at Ohio wise one?


I played for Coach Burke from 79-82, was recruited by Coach Kappes.  The game has changed a lot over the years, but the basics are still the same.  Not sure I said no Monday morning QB'ing, just that some get all their knowedge from a video game.  If that fits you and you are offended, let me extend my deepest apologizes.  The game is a delicate and complex thing, and just because something worked against team X, does not mean it will work against team Y, nor does it mean that all the variables will be consistent from one game and situation to the next. 
Bobcat2006
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Posted: 10/15/2012 11:44 AM
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BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
You'd probably have to understand football, 1st. Not every play is going to be successful 100% of the time, I don't care what you can make your team do on the XBox.


OUr team gets its plays from XBox?

Does XBox poorly train for end of first half clock management? Getting the ball down to the 12 and having first down and 3 dumbaxe passes that run about 10 seconds off the clock then kick the 3 would indicate the XBox program is faulty. Offense puts defense back on the field which results in opponent getting 7 is clearly on the backs of the offensive hired help.

Better that TT use his Ohio education which is superior to whatever institution the time manager attended and know to run on first down, drain 40 seconds off the clock and if still needed run the other plays before taking the 3.


Can you even read? Said nothing about our team getting plays from a game, but rather Monday morning QB's getting their knowledge from one.


What, no Monday morning QB'ing allowed.  What number and what years did you play at Ohio wise one?


I played for Coach Burke from 79-82, was recruited by Coach Kappes.  The game has changed a lot over the years, but the basics are still the same.  Not sure I said no Monday morning QB'ing, just that some get all their knowedge from a video game.  If that fits you and you are offended, let me extend my deepest apologizes.  The game is a delicate and complex thing, and just because something worked against team X, does not mean it will work against team Y, nor does it mean that all the variables will be consistent from one game and situation to the next. 


MonroeClassmate,

Who exactly are you refering to as the "time manager"?  If you mean any of the coaches than I am sorry but TT is not going to blatantly ignore a play called by Coach Albin and run something completely different.  I personally have no complaints with Monday Morning QB'ing as long as comments made are at least realistic. In fact I am personnally not a fan of running the QB sneak out of Pistol but this is OHIO's offense and overall it's very productive so I will leave play calling duties up to the coaching staff who know exactly what they are doing.

Oh and BillytheCat I played under Knorr for 3 years and Solich for 2 years.  2002 to 2007 GMAC bowl and I wore number 53.
SBH
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Posted: 10/15/2012 11:59 AM
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Thanks for bringing the thread back to the original topic.  I'm not questioning running the sneak out of the pistol.  But three times on Saturday, we did it with a victory type formation that allowed Akron to stack all 11 defenders on the line. Maybe OK the first time, but there was absolutely no element of surprise on the subsequent two (unsuccessful) attempts.  In fact we lost yardage on one.  Someone explain. As for the person who suggested that I not base my opinions on Xbox, I ask, what is this Xbox?  I'm 51.  Is it similar to Pong?




Last Edited: 10/15/2012 12:01:17 PM by SBH
GoCats105
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Posted: 10/15/2012 12:48 PM
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Deciduous Forest Cat wrote:expand_more
Sure, not every play works all the time.  Otherwise, the game wouldn't involve a whole lot of mystery.

However, I'm very concerned about the performance of our offense.  Our inability to get key 1st downs late in the game against horrible teams.  Not scoring is one thing, but just getting a couple first downs so we don't have to sweat this out EVERY week.  A couple first downs in the 4th quarter and all three of these wins look a lot more respectable at two-score differentials.  

Now... we have played the three worst teams in the MAC, two of them at home. Again, glad we won, glad we're 7-0, and glad we're ranked, but can we just put our foot on a throat and squish?  Just once? 

How is it that Akron, of all teams, turned us one-dimensional yesterday?  The passing game looked as abysmal as I can remember in a long time.  Take away the trick play and we barely threw for the century mark.  Tyler also missed some easy throws, but we can call that an anomaly because that doesn't happen often and he gets the benefit of the doubt as they guy who has shattered every offensive record at the school.

Positives?  After about a game and a half of really poor tackling, I think we were much better in the 2nd half against buffalo and pretty solid yesterday with a few exceptions. Akron's running game was mostly due to big holes not missed tackles like vs. Buffalo.


Not to mention the most God awful onside kick "recovery" formation and execution known to man, almost sending Pete's aorta into overdrive.

Like I said before the game ended, we were a trick play away from losing to Akron. UGH.
Bcat2
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Posted: 10/15/2012 6:11 PM
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SBH wrote:expand_more
Thanks for bringing the thread back to the original topic.  I'm not questioning running the sneak out of the pistol.  But three times on Saturday, we did it with a victory type formation that allowed Akron to stack all 11 defenders on the line. Maybe OK the first time, but there was absolutely no element of surprise on the subsequent two (unsuccessful) attempts.  In fact we lost yardage on one.  Some one explain. As for the person who suggested that I not base my opinions on Xbox, I ask, what is this Xbox?  I'm 51.  Is it similar to Pong?


The strongest element of the 2012 team will be the OL up the middle.  Scouting Akron they were supposed to be weakest DL inside.  Gameplan for short yardage would have been to play OU strength to Kron weakness.  Shoud have been  successfull 7 of 10. Problem was Akron has some good coaches too.  They got better short yardage, credit to Akron.  Coach Albin/Gdowski  did plenty right.  I would not trade them for any other offensive coaches in the MAC, but, this time credit the other guys, they are trying.
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Posted: 10/15/2012 6:34 PM
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Bobcat2006 wrote:expand_more
.... In fact I am personnally not a fan of running the QB sneak out of Pistol but this is OHIO's offense and overall it's very productive so I will leave play calling duties up to the coaching staff who know exactly what they are doing.

Oh and BillytheCat I played under Knorr for 3 years and Solich for 2 years.  2002 to 2007 GMAC bowl and I wore number 53.

Well,  if anyone knows a thing about QB sneaks, it would be you. I agree that sneaks look odd out of the pistol, but I have no basis for concluding whether there is a higher success rate one way or the other, so I also will defer to the coaches.
Monroe Slavin
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Posted: 10/16/2012 3:03 AM
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I think that the complaint that the formation was pretty much the same on all 3 tries is a legit one.

Try that one out of a spread formation so the oppo can't bunch the middle.  Shouldn't that have optimized our advantage in the middle of the line?
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Posted: 10/16/2012 7:37 AM
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Or try a bootleg, or a pass in the flat, out of that formation. Need some kind of audible there.
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Posted: 10/16/2012 10:08 AM
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Bcat2 wrote:expand_more
Thanks for bringing the thread back to the original topic.  I'm not questioning running the sneak out of the pistol.  But three times on Saturday, we did it with a victory type formation that allowed Akron to stack all 11 defenders on the line. Maybe OK the first time, but there was absolutely no element of surprise on the subsequent two (unsuccessful) attempts.  In fact we lost yardage on one.  Some one explain. As for the person who suggested that I not base my opinions on Xbox, I ask, what is this Xbox?  I'm 51.  Is it similar to Pong?


The strongest element of the 2012 team will be the OL up the middle.  Scouting Akron they were supposed to be weakest DL inside.  Gameplan for short yardage would have been to play OU strength to Kron weakness.  Shoud have been  successfull 7 of 10. Problem was Akron has some good coaches too.  They got better short yardage, credit to Akron.  Coach Albin/Gdowski  did plenty right.  I would not trade them for any other offensive coaches in the MAC, but, this time credit the other guys, they are trying.


Well stated!
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