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Ohio Football Topic
Topic: Fire Albin or Isphording
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
10/31/2023 9:44 PM
CatFud wrote:expand_more
We're in the top half of one of the worst conferences in the country.
This statement is true only if one considers only the FBS and then ignores the obvious gap in funding and support between P5 and G5. In fact, there are over 900 intercollegiate football teams, and Sagarin presently ranks Ohio University as #90 overall; the program is in the top 10%.
Mental victories are important, I guess.
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Andrew Ruck
10/31/2023 11:47 PM
CatFud wrote:expand_more
Oh I 100% would choose Ohio in that scenario. I deeply value sustained competitiveness, where nearly each November you're still thinking about the chance to win the title.

But it is just astounding that we haven't somehow won a single one.
12 out of 32 NFL teams (38%) have never won a Super Bowl, some despite multiple appearances (Buffalo, Minnesota, Cincinnati).
Sure, but not winning a league of 32 is not that crazy compared to a league of 12. And many of those 12 did not even exist when Ohio last won the MAC.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/1/2023 12:21 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
The Mac Championship drought is actually one of the more remarkable (depressing?) things in American sports. In a league with only 12 (or less) teams, to go 56 years without a title is astounding. I could argue it is worse than the Cubs 108 year drought.

Then you add to it that it is a storied university with a solid fan base, or 5 trips to the championship, includes the winningest coach in conference history, and so on...It is truly unbelievable.
Would you rather be Ball State?

I say that with 100% sincerity. I'm curious where people fall on this...

19 Years;

Fighting David Lettermans:
14 Seasons of 6+ Losses.
11 below .500 Seasons
1 MAC Championship.
1 Bowl Win.
7.8K in attendance to watch Toledo

OU:
135 wins.
11 Finishes in the Top 2 of the MAC East
5 MAC East Championships.
12 Bowls.
6 Bowl Wins.
19.8K average attendance for 2023

Is that 1 year of relevance enough to keep you warm and cozy?

I know where I come out on this, but I do think a large swath of people would choose total irrelevance for one MAC Champions shirt. [/QUOTE][QUOTE=Andrew Ruck] Oh I 100% would choose Ohio in that scenario. I deeply value sustained competitiveness, where nearly each November you're still thinking about the chance to win the title.

But it is just astounding that we haven't somehow won a single one.
It IS weird, but if you asked 100 fans at 10 different games. I bet 95 say OU has won the MAC within the last 10 years. The perception that OU is a MAC power is true - and mostly factual, despite not having won the conference outright.

I'm not saying that makes me feel better, but people remember bowl wins more than they do these conference titles. Only time people are paying attention to conference championships are when you win them a lot - or they're the key to getting into a basketball tournament.

This happens every year. Look at OSU and Michigan in the CFP. There is a 25% chance the NATIONAL CHAMP will not be a Conference Champ.

So I do think it's odd OU hasn't won in like 50 years, but I'm not sweating it. It hasn't hurt us any. It also hasn't helped anyone sustain success like OU does. Maybe Toledo? I bet Ball State and Akron would hand over their MAC Championship for OU's success and perceived success.
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Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
11/1/2023 1:19 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
The Mac Championship drought is actually one of the more remarkable (depressing?) things in American sports. In a league with only 12 (or less) teams, to go 56 years without a title is astounding. I could argue it is worse than the Cubs 108 year drought.

Then you add to it that it is a storied university with a solid fan base, or 5 trips to the championship, includes the winningest coach in conference history, and so on...It is truly unbelievable.
Would you rather be Ball State?

I say that with 100% sincerity. I'm curious where people fall on this...

19 Years;

Fighting David Lettermans:
14 Seasons of 6+ Losses.
11 below .500 Seasons
1 MAC Championship.
1 Bowl Win.
7.8K in attendance to watch Toledo

OU:
135 wins.
11 Finishes in the Top 2 of the MAC East
5 MAC East Championships.
12 Bowls.
6 Bowl Wins.
19.8K average attendance for 2023

Is that 1 year of relevance enough to keep you warm and cozy?

I know where I come out on this, but I do think a large swath of people would choose total irrelevance for one MAC Champions shirt.
Oh I 100% would choose Ohio in that scenario. I deeply value sustained competitiveness, where nearly each November you're still thinking about the chance to win the title.

But it is just astounding that we haven't somehow won a single one.
It IS weird, but if you asked 100 fans at 10 different games. I bet 95 say OU has won the MAC within the last 10 years. The perception that OU is a MAC power is true - and mostly factual, despite not having won the conference outright.

I'm not saying that makes me feel better, but people remember bowl wins more than they do these conference titles. Only time people are paying attention to conference championships are when you win them a lot - or they're the key to getting into a basketball tournament.

This happens every year. Look at OSU and Michigan in the CFP. There is a 25% chance the NATIONAL CHAMP will not be a Conference Champ.

So I do think it's odd OU hasn't won in like 50 years, but I'm not sweating it. It hasn't hurt us any. It also hasn't helped anyone sustain success like OU does. Maybe Toledo? I bet Ball State and Akron would hand over their MAC Championship for OU's success and perceived success.
I think this is true for OSU and Michigan, who have a path to meaningful games without a conference championship.

Our only path to anything meaningful is by winning a conference championship. MAC teams have, on occasion, played in very big bowl games against very good competition. They did so by winning the conference championship.

We have not. And we play 7 win teams in crappy bowls that 200k people watch. 60 teams go to bowls every year. 6-6 teams go to bowls sometimes. Nobody cares about them, for the most part. There are bowls that so few people care about that they can't even get them televised. Most bowl games have been meaningless for a long time, and somehow in the last 5 years they've become even more meaningless.
Last Edited: 11/1/2023 1:27:32 PM by Bobcat Love's Sense of Shame
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BillyTheCat
11/1/2023 1:24 PM
BryanHall wrote:expand_more
As someone who has followed recruiting for year, I totally agree that recruiting rankings a decade ago were completely meaningless at the MAC level. It seems, however, that the quality of evaluations has improved substantially over the years.

Current recruiting rankings no longer seem to be meaningless. Comparing the recruiting rankings over the last 5 years to the current wins and losses shows a 75% correlation. The data set is small, and I'm not going to get out my stats book to figure out if a 75% correlation is statistically significant, but I suspect it might be. I am, however, certain that it has to be significant for, in a sample of 17 players, the 4 players who end up on the field as true freshmen to all be included in the top 5 players. Taken together, I believe that recruiting rankings at the MAC level are no longer meaningless.

To summarize my earlier post, I made no claim that I "refuted" your opinion. Rather, I'm gave the reasons for my opinion that Ohio does not have the best talent, but rather, is somewhere in the middle to upper middle of the MAC. Instead, I asked you what the reasons for your opinion are, since it obviously is different than mine.

FWIW, which isn't much, I think that the one year when Ohio did have the best talent in the MAC was 2012. Take away 19 starters due to injury, however, and they were middle of the MAC by the time the MAC season rolled around.
I'm sorry if I confused your post with a "refutation"

I assumed this since you addressed my post directly, started with the statement
"I'm just curious, but on what do you base the statement that Ohio is "the most talented team in the division"?" and then included a statistical analysis that seemed to show Ohio as the ninth most talented team in the MAC.

I based my belief that Ohio was the most talented team in the MAC East based on the following:

1. Defense. Miami has a very good MAC defense. Ohio, even after last week, is fifth in total yards allowed per game among ALL FBS teams.

2. Quarterback. Ohio had the returning MAC player of the year. Miami had a backup that hadn't played much this year. I feel Ohio had a huge advantage in talent even though Rourke was not highly recruited.

3. Receivers. Ohio had a returning ALL-MAC first teamer with a good complement of receivers and TEs. Miami is not bad here with the addition of Larvadain, but does not seem to have an advantage vs Wiglusz/Cross+Others.

3 Backs. The Bobcats have the returning Freshman of the Year and a healed Allison. Miami is not bad here, but I will take Bangura/Allison talentwise.

4. Offensive Line. The team returned all but one starter from a solid unit. I didn't think talent was the problem. I don't know what the problem is.

5 Special Teams. Miami seemed better, but the gap did not seem huge going into the game.

That was the basis of my belief that Ohio was the most talented team in the Eastern Division.
In regards to the OL, there is not much comparison when you consider the builds and athleticism of the Miami front seven
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MonroeClassmate
11/1/2023 1:25 PM
Long term, it wouldn't be much different being Ball State!

OHIO went through the Wilderness and has been consistently competitive lately in the weak MAC East and fairing better than most MAC teams in year end bowl games.

But those years in the Wilderness by OHIO were years of success at BSU. Balls then went into the Wilderness from 1997-2019.

BSU Conference Champs
1976
1978
1989
1993
1996
2020

In 2008 the Cardinals were a perfect 12-0 (until they lost to Buffalo and then Tulsa in the Bowl Game) A perfect regular season while not winning the conference is worthy of high praise.
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ohiocatfan1
11/1/2023 1:58 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I was never on board with Albin from day 1. I've said here many times that he was in over his head and I still believe that. I won't even mention that he can't put 2 coherent sentences together. Should have never been hired and should be fired now.
Maybe we can get Scott Frost????? And, everyday I wake up with Tim as OUr coach, makes me happy you are miserable! Let's win 8!!!!
Not miserable in the least. I don't live and die with this stuff.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
11/1/2023 2:21 PM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
As someone who has followed recruiting for year, I totally agree that recruiting rankings a decade ago were completely meaningless at the MAC level. It seems, however, that the quality of evaluations has improved substantially over the years.

Current recruiting rankings no longer seem to be meaningless. Comparing the recruiting rankings over the last 5 years to the current wins and losses shows a 75% correlation. The data set is small, and I'm not going to get out my stats book to figure out if a 75% correlation is statistically significant, but I suspect it might be. I am, however, certain that it has to be significant for, in a sample of 17 players, the 4 players who end up on the field as true freshmen to all be included in the top 5 players. Taken together, I believe that recruiting rankings at the MAC level are no longer meaningless.

To summarize my earlier post, I made no claim that I "refuted" your opinion. Rather, I'm gave the reasons for my opinion that Ohio does not have the best talent, but rather, is somewhere in the middle to upper middle of the MAC. Instead, I asked you what the reasons for your opinion are, since it obviously is different than mine.

FWIW, which isn't much, I think that the one year when Ohio did have the best talent in the MAC was 2012. Take away 19 starters due to injury, however, and they were middle of the MAC by the time the MAC season rolled around.
I'm sorry if I confused your post with a "refutation"

I assumed this since you addressed my post directly, started with the statement
"I'm just curious, but on what do you base the statement that Ohio is "the most talented team in the division"?" and then included a statistical analysis that seemed to show Ohio as the ninth most talented team in the MAC.

I based my belief that Ohio was the most talented team in the MAC East based on the following:

1. Defense. Miami has a very good MAC defense. Ohio, even after last week, is fifth in total yards allowed per game among ALL FBS teams.

2. Quarterback. Ohio had the returning MAC player of the year. Miami had a backup that hadn't played much this year. I feel Ohio had a huge advantage in talent even though Rourke was not highly recruited.

3. Receivers. Ohio had a returning ALL-MAC first teamer with a good complement of receivers and TEs. Miami is not bad here with the addition of Larvadain, but does not seem to have an advantage vs Wiglusz/Cross+Others.

3 Backs. The Bobcats have the returning Freshman of the Year and a healed Allison. Miami is not bad here, but I will take Bangura/Allison talentwise.

4. Offensive Line. The team returned all but one starter from a solid unit. I didn't think talent was the problem. I don't know what the problem is.

5 Special Teams. Miami seemed better, but the gap did not seem huge going into the game.

That was the basis of my belief that Ohio was the most talented team in the Eastern Division.
In regards to the OL, there is not much comparison when you consider the builds and athleticism of the Miami front seven
If you think Miami magically got that much faster and stronger in one year, you're looking at this all wrong. They looked faster and stronger because they were more in tune with what we were doing. Sometimes I wonder if the reason our offense has gone so far backwards is because our signs might be easy to steal? I don't expect us to hit 8 deep balls per game but how is it we never have anyone open even as teams stack the box to stop the run? Just feels like teams are on to us. Albin will have to adjust.
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Valley Cat
11/1/2023 3:08 PM
Maybe I’m insane but I get bothered by the lack of Ohio commits in this upcoming class. To me it says a lot about this staff. How is Ohio only getting one player out of the state? I would like to see this pick up but it concerns me how this staff is perceived around this state or their ability to forge relationships and bring in talent.
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ohiocatfan1
11/6/2023 3:06 PM
Valley Cat wrote:expand_more
Maybe I’m insane but I get bothered by the lack of Ohio commits in this upcoming class. To me it says a lot about this staff. How is Ohio only getting one player out of the state? I would like to see this pick up but it concerns me how this staff is perceived around this state or their ability to forge relationships and bring in talent.
Have you ever heard Coach Albin speak? If he was in my living room recruiting my son he wouldn't exactly inspire confidence.
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Deciduous Forest Cat
11/6/2023 4:02 PM
ohiocatfan1 wrote:expand_more
Maybe I’m insane but I get bothered by the lack of Ohio commits in this upcoming class. To me it says a lot about this staff. How is Ohio only getting one player out of the state? I would like to see this pick up but it concerns me how this staff is perceived around this state or their ability to forge relationships and bring in talent.
Have you ever heard Coach Albin speak? If he was in my living room recruiting my son he wouldn't exactly inspire confidence.
This is a dumb, wrong take. but I guess it's like, your opinion, man.
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Kevin Finnegan
11/6/2023 4:58 PM
CatFud wrote:expand_more
We're in the top half of one of the worst conferences in the country.
This statement is true only if one considers only the FBS and then ignores the obvious gap in funding and support between P5 and G5. In fact, there are over 900 intercollegiate football teams, and Sagarin presently ranks Ohio University as #90 overall; the program is in the top 10%.
I love this. Should give Pittsburgh Pirates fans some perspective. Yeah, sure, if you're looking at Major League Baseball, Pittsburgh finished 22nd out of 30th in the standings, but that statement is true only if one considers only the MLB and ignores the obvious gap in funding and support between the large and small markets. In fact, there are over 220 professional baseball teams, and the Pirates would presently rank as #22 overall, the program is in the top 10%.
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Bobcat1996
11/9/2023 7:47 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
I was never on board with Albin from day 1. I've said here many times that he was in over his head and I still believe that. I won't even mention that he can't put 2 coherent sentences together. Should have never been hired and should be fired now.
Maybe we can get Scott Frost????? And, everyday I wake up with Tim as OUr coach, makes me happy you are miserable! Let's win 8!!!!
LOL Billy Loved that one! This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
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SBH
11/9/2023 10:32 AM
Same attitude that led to the demise of Nebraska's program.
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M.D.W.S.T
11/9/2023 10:32 AM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
Failing to meet expectations gets coaches fired all the time.

Taking Frank's roster to 10 wins is impressive, I've said it dozens of times, he could end up with two of the best seasons in Ohio history... but whats on the horizon...? Can he recruit his own talent? Can he coach up no stars and one stars? Because what we have right now is one of the oldest teams in college football failing to meet expectations and one of the most talented offenses in college football unable to figure it out.
Last Edited: 11/9/2023 11:11:38 AM by M.D.W.S.T
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BryanHall
11/9/2023 10:50 AM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
I was never on board with Albin from day 1. I've said here many times that he was in over his head and I still believe that. I won't even mention that he can't put 2 coherent sentences together. Should have never been hired and should be fired now.
Maybe we can get Scott Frost????? And, everyday I wake up with Tim as OUr coach, makes me happy you are miserable! Let's win 8!!!!
LOL Billy Loved that one! This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
I see the "yay we got 8 wins" crowd reappeared after the Miami week. This team is senior-loaded, and very talented on both sides of the ball. I had higher expectations this year. I have sad news for everyone--there are no more Rourke brothers coming to Athens and this team will lose a lot of senior starters next year. I may be very happy next year with a rebuilding 8-4 record. I just feel that the team has underperformed its talent this year--particularly on offense.
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Bobcat1996
11/9/2023 3:56 PM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
Failing to meet expectations gets coaches fired all the time.

Taking Frank's roster to 10 wins is impressive, I've said it dozens of times, he could end up with two of the best seasons in Ohio history... but whats on the horizon...? Can he recruit his own talent? Can he coach up no stars and one stars? Because what we have right now is one of the oldest teams in college football failing to meet expectations and one of the most talented offenses in college football unable to figure it out.
Who do you think brought in Sam Wiglusz, Kobi Gorman, Jacoby Jones, Austin Brawley, Walter Reynolds, Adonis Williams, Chase Hendricks and Mason Williams just to name a few. All the players mentioned above were recruited by Coach Albin and his staff. All the above players have played significant roles for the Bobcats. To answer your question about "can he coach up no stars and one stars"? Does the name AJ Oulellette ring a bell? AJ began his Ohio career as a walk on. Who do you think coached him?
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L.C.
11/9/2023 6:44 PM
FWIW, I think that time will show that the 2023 and 2024 were excellent recruiting classes. I believe both are among the best I've seen at Ohio.
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OhioCatFan
11/9/2023 9:35 PM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
Who do you think brought in Sam Wiglusz, Kobi Gorman, Jacoby Jones, Austin Brawley, Walter Reynolds, Adonis Williams, Chase Hendricks and Mason Williams just to name a few. All the players mentioned above were recruited by Coach Albin and his staff. All the above players have played significant roles for the Bobcats. To answer your question about "can he coach up no stars and one stars"? Does the name AJ Oulellette ring a bell? AJ began his Ohio career as a walk on. Who do you think coached him?
+1 Very important points. Thanks for naming names and giving specifics. In TA Year 1, I called for his firing. I was wrong. This kind of information shows part of the reason that I was wrong. Go OHIO!
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L.C.
11/9/2023 10:54 PM
Valley Cat wrote:expand_more
Maybe I’m insane but I get bothered by the lack of Ohio commits in this upcoming class. To me it says a lot about this staff. How is Ohio only getting one player out of the state? I would like to see this pick up but it concerns me how this staff is perceived around this state or their ability to forge relationships and bring in talent.

This puzzles me. Yes, not many are from Ohio, but this seems to be an unusually high quality class. Ohio has 14 verbals so far listed on 247Sports, plus Andrew Erby, Jr and Miles Cremascoli, who are not yet listed. They are currently ranked #3 in the MAC, and #83 in the country, which is about as high as I ever recall seeing them, and when Erby and Cremascoli are added, they will move up:
https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Football/OverallTeamRan...

Only one recruit is rated 2 stars, while the rest are 3 stars. The vast majority of the recruits have a pile of offers, and six of them have P5 offers, with three of them having 4 or more P5 offers:
1. Tony Mathis, Jr - Michigan, Nebraska, Purdue, WV, U. Conn, plus 9 others
2. Andrew Erby, Jr - U Conn, Louisville, Nebraska, Penn State, Maryland, WV, plus 11 others
3. Jasen Kelly - Cincinnati, Iowa St, Kentucky, WV, plus 9 others
4. Kesean Anderson - Louisville
5. Hunter Thompson - West Virginia, plus 6 others
6. Bryce Parson - Boston College, plus 3 others

7. Nick Segarra - 20 offers, no P5
8. Samuel Ehret - 17 offers, no P5
9. DJ Morton - 14 offers, no P5
10. Sellan Bowman - 11 offers, no p5
11. Parker Startz - 10 offers, no P5
12. Dom Dorwart - 5 offers, no p5
13. Kaden Hurst - 5 offers, no P5
14. Duncan Brune - 5 offers, no P5
15. Seth Anstead - 3 offers, no P5
16. Miles Cremascoli - only 1 other offer

In most years, Ohio has had no recruits that turned down a P5 to come to Ohio, and once in awhile they have 2 or 3. I have never seen 6 of them in one year, ever. WV had 3 players reject them to come to Athens, while U.Conn, Louisville, and Nebraska were each rejected twice. That says something about this staff's sales ability, too.
Last Edited: 11/9/2023 10:57:27 PM by L.C.
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AlumDadDad
11/10/2023 8:19 AM
Please tell me Hunter Thompson's middle initial is S.
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BillyTheCat
11/10/2023 8:38 AM
AlumDadDad wrote:expand_more
Please tell me Hunter Thompson's middle initial is S.
Unfortunately, I do not believe Hunter S Thompson has any eligibility left.
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AlumDadDad
11/10/2023 8:47 AM
BillyTheCat wrote:expand_more
Please tell me Hunter Thompson's middle initial is S.
Unfortunately, I do not believe Hunter S Thompson has any eligibility left.
Eligibility expired.

Ouch - very bad joke.

Kid could definitely make some side cash on jersey sales...Ala Titsworth.
Last Edited: 11/10/2023 8:48:43 AM by AlumDadDad
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M.D.W.S.T
11/10/2023 9:38 AM
Bobcat1996 wrote:expand_more
This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
Failing to meet expectations gets coaches fired all the time.

Taking Frank's roster to 10 wins is impressive, I've said it dozens of times, he could end up with two of the best seasons in Ohio history... but whats on the horizon...? Can he recruit his own talent? Can he coach up no stars and one stars? Because what we have right now is one of the oldest teams in college football failing to meet expectations and one of the most talented offenses in college football unable to figure it out.
Who do you think brought in Sam Wiglusz, Kobi Gorman, Jacoby Jones, Austin Brawley, Walter Reynolds, Adonis Williams, Chase Hendricks and Mason Williams just to name a few. All the players mentioned above were recruited by Coach Albin and his staff. All the above players have played significant roles for the Bobcats. To answer your question about "can he coach up no stars and one stars"? Does the name AJ Oulellette ring a bell? AJ began his Ohio career as a walk on. Who do you think coached him?
LOL You tried.

"YOU EVER HEARD OF THIS GUY I SAW MENTIONED IN ANOTHER THREAD THAT PLAYED HERE IN 2014??!! WHO DO YOU THINK WAS ON STAFF BACK THEN HUH? THATS WHAT I THOUGHT"
Last Edited: 11/10/2023 9:41:49 AM by M.D.W.S.T
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Bobcat1996
11/10/2023 11:20 AM
M.D.W.S.T wrote:expand_more
This team has a good shot at 8 or 9 wins and some of these people want Coach Albin dismissed. I continue to shake my head at some of these people.
Failing to meet expectations gets coaches fired all the time.

Taking Frank's roster to 10 wins is impressive, I've said it dozens of times, he could end up with two of the best seasons in Ohio history... but whats on the horizon...? Can he recruit his own talent? Can he coach up no stars and one stars? Because what we have right now is one of the oldest teams in college football failing to meet expectations and one of the most talented offenses in college football unable to figure it out.
Who do you think brought in Sam Wiglusz, Kobi Gorman, Jacoby Jones, Austin Brawley, Walter Reynolds, Adonis Williams, Chase Hendricks and Mason Williams just to name a few. All the players mentioned above were recruited by Coach Albin and his staff. All the above players have played significant roles for the Bobcats. To answer your question about "can he coach up no stars and one stars"? Does the name AJ Oulellette ring a bell? AJ began his Ohio career as a walk on. Who do you think coached him?
LOL You tried.

"YOU EVER HEARD OF THIS GUY I SAW MENTIONED IN ANOTHER THREAD THAT PLAYED HERE IN 2014??!! WHO DO YOU THINK WAS ON STAFF BACK THEN HUH? THATS WHAT I THOUGHT"

Who do you think was his position coach back then? And the OC back then? Can he coach up no stars? I think that should answer your question.
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