The problem is that you're hearing too much of President McDavis' prooganda rather than actually doing the research and finding the true underlying situation.  Yes, applications have increased substantially, but that is ONLY because we adopted the common application.  That jump in raw number of applications has been utterly irrelevent because the actual freshman classes have been utterly stagnant in terms of quality.  Here are the actual university common data sets for the 2006 freshman class and the 2012 freshman class.


Middle 50% ACT score ranges was 21-26 in 2006 and in 2012?  21-26.  On the SAT, we're actually a hair worse than we were in 2006: 980-1200 in 2006 versus 970-1200 six years later.

Nor are we attracting many more high ability students.  In 2006, we had 7% with a 30 or higher.  Last year, it was 9%.  As for low ability students, that hasn't changed either.  In both years, roughly half the freshman class scored a 23 or lower. (53% in 2006; 48% in 2012.)

Class rank is no better.  In 2006, we had 15% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.  Six years later, it was 16% in the top tenth and 19% in the bottom half.

Clearly neither feel good sloganeering nor successful athletic teams are moving the academic profile of Ohio forward. What it will take is real (not feel good soundbite spewing) leadership, solid fundraising and long term faculty recruitment.  There are no quick, easy solutions to those needs, and they certainly won't be found on a bumper sticker or a scoreboard.

We are not on the common application.

I'm posting this because it's relevant to the topic and, in the discussion of the potential for a playoff among the non-BCS teams, what team is mentioned as playing in the national semi final that people would watch? OHIO.

The NFL/AFL analogy is interesting...not entirely accurate, but interesting.

Since your main premise about the common application is apparently wrong, I would also say that your use of other statistics to back up your argument is not real compelling either. Only 1 stat is actually lower, the rest are the same or have improved-albeit not by huge percentages. Ax to grind-apparently so.

If you will actually check the links those are the freshman class data compiled and maintained by Ohio University.  It's on the official university website for anyone to actually investigate and form their own conclusions.  The numbers above are drawn from the university's own published statistics.

While I may have been mistaken about being on the common app, it really doesn't matter in the long run because any increase in applications is clearly not driving higher quality students--which was the main contention of Optimist and others who seem to think that winning sports teams and clever catch phrases will increase the academic profile of the university.

I don't have an ax to grind, but some here apparently have putten McDavis on such a do-no-wrong pedestal solely because he is a big booster athletics.  That's fine, if that's what is most important to you, but don't spew this fantasy that it is somehow increasing Ohio's academic profile.  In those six years, by how many millions of dollars has the university subsidized the athletic program?  And the academic results have been negligible.  If the ultimate goal is to have winning football and men's basketball teams, then money well spent.  If the ultimate goal is to make Ohio a better university, then it appears to be the worst investment since mortgage backed derivative funds.  It would seem to me that all those millions of dollars every year would have done a heck of a lot more to move Ohio forward were they devoted to scholarships for all those 30+ ACT students who--while they might be applying to Ohio as a safety school--are still clearly choosing to attend elsewhere.

Honestly, if I'm an administrator at Fiami or O$U, I would want McDavis to stay at Ohio for as long as possible.

Then by your premise, any expenditure on athletics is a waste. Is that your contention?

No.  I enjoy athletics and want to see competitive programs.  I would answer your question in two parts.  First, it's not simply black and white regarding athletic expenditures or more properly subsidies because if the athletic department were self-sustaining, there would be no need for this debate.  It's a matter of degrees and marginal returns.  I understand needing to subsidize the athletic department, but it's a matter of what is a wise and appropriate level of subsidy.  We're pouring millions of dollars into athletics right now.  Is every dollar of that subsidy money well spent?  My argument is that we've reached a point of diminishing returns and some of that money could be better utilized elsewhere such as merit aid, faculty recruitment and so on.

Secondly, is the question of the impact that winning football and basketball are having on the overall university.  Here is where I differ greatly from some (most) on here.  Athletics is not moving our university forward.  In fact, I would argue that at the current absurd level of subsidy, it is draining money away from other much more important needs.  It's nice window dressing, but that is all, and that is more than born out when looking at our freshman class profiles or national rankings, which belies the contention of those who say that there is some kind of academic benefit to the athletic subsidy because I'm not seeing it.  If all that matters to some is that sports teams win in order to show up Fiami and o$u, that's fine.  Just be honest with yourself about that being the most important thing rather than spewing this b.s. that it's somehow necessary to make Ohio a better university.

And just to put things into perspective regarding President McDavis, he's the Ohio University President who oversaw Ohio slip to the fourth most selective public university in Ohio because Cincinnati has pretty definitively passed us by under his watch.

These people came out....

First of all, you're assuming a direct causation.  Correlation is not causation!  How do you know that the (small) gain in top students has anything to do with football/basketball success?  What factors or studies do you have that says top students pick a school based on football success?  At the very best, athletic success is driving some increases in applications among average (or even reject) level applicants.  It's not driving any quality gains.  Secondly, even if these small gains are driven 100% by athletic success is that in any way cost effective relative to the millions of dollars per year that the university is funneling into the athletic department versus using the money directly to recruit and give scholarships to these students?

What has been the total athletic subsidy over the last six years?  HINT: it's in the tens of millions of dollars!  And what has it produced?  50 or 60 extra 30+ ACT students.  Maybe 25 extra students from the top tenth of their high school class.  AND THERE IS NO REAL PROOF THAT THOSE SMALL INCREASES EVEN HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH ATHLETICS!

And by the way, our freshman class has actually gotten SMALLER counter to what other people believe.  In 2006, Ohio enrolled 4075 entering freshmen.  In 2012, Ohio enrolled 3884 entering freshman.

Stop listening to McDavis' self-serving propaganda and actually go through the common data sets from the beginning of his tenure to the current one.  Ohio is falling further and further behind osu and miami and has even been overtaken by cincy.  If you find something in there to counter my argument, I'll be happy to listen.

According to the Ohio Board of Regents, which should be completely unbiased statistics, Ohio University (main campus only) has the highest percentage enrollment increase from 2006-11 of any Ohio public main campus aside from Northeast Ohio Medical University and Central State University.

The University of Akron and Kent State University are close behind, but OU has done it while actually slightly improving the average academic profile of its students.

https://www.ohiohighered.org/files/uploads/data/statistical-profiles/enrollment/HC_Enrollment_Report_02-11.pdf

I couldn't get this photo to paste, but the information is right here specifically, instead of going through the PDF document: http://www.wyandotsportshof.org/enrollments.jpg

OUPride person, you don't get it.

First, I'm not terribly big on intangible assets being assigned big value, but think about your handle on this board.  Obviously, your very name shows pride in the O H I O.  In that same way, most of us here are no longer at the University but care deeply about O H I O.  We beam with pride when we win or hear good news of O H I O.

That same pride and caring is certainly considered by prospective students.  How do people regard O H I O?  In this day of your social network, don't you think that applicants give some consideration as to how O H I O will look on their permanent record?  

So, while I can't put a specific dollar value on such as foot and basket and volley teams that win, I assure you that there is value.  Your take that success in athletics does not help would seem to not hold much water.

Ask people here if, in the past few years, theyve worn O H I O gear and had people all over the U.S. and internationally ask if they went to school at O H I O.  A lot of those who ask know about O H I O because of foot and basket.

I will be the first to admit that I don't have or know all the admission and student profile stats.  What I believe to be true is that OHIO may not be as highly rated as it was 10 years ago in the US News and World Report rankings.  Like em or not many people use those rankings when evaluating schools and I fear we are not keeping up.  Can anyone verify our ranking 10 over the last 10 years or am I just hallucinating. 

As for Cincinnati, I can assure you they have made great strides in academics over the last ten years and have objective criteria in place to measure the academics/progress at the school.  After spending a ton of money on all facilities they are now pouring money into BOTH athletics and scholarships and they are starting to see the positive results.  I think they are showing that you have to spend money to keep up in the athletic and academic arms race on campuses across the country.  Time will tell if they make it to the big5 and AAU status.  Does OHIO have those kinds of plans in place?  i don't think so.  And, I continue to say it is because we simply do not have the financial or alumni support to do what Cincinnati is doing.